New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Winter]

Zee, Winter, Tres just made a post about not doing exactly what you're doing right now.

haha what really? because I'm pretty sure making 3 posts full of nothing but arguing with looney and aki is more along the lines of what Tres said not to do. But okay.

And you know what? It really, really comes off as defensive posturing. You read like you are feeling threatened and have to act big in order to save face. It's really rather silly from where I sit.

save face? Haha oh wow. This coming from you (and others) who are like "HERP HERP I'M NOT A SHIPPER I JUST LOVE CANON". You know what? I'm a shipper. I post in this thread because I'm a fucking nerd and I enjoy talking about which fictional characters bang other fictional characters and all the retarded details. At least I can admit that, unlike a chunk of the people in this thread, who act like this is some deep serious discussion that actually matters.

And you say I'm saving face.

If they were being bitchy at the other people being bitchy, I wouldn't have cared. They were being bitchy instead of actually responding.

Go back and read my post again. Seriously, do it. In both of my bitchy posts I actually posted on topic. You may not like the discussion we were having, but we were having discussion and it was on topic.

Because they were letting it spill over to people who were being completely civil towards them.

haha oh wow. OWD was pulling her usual routine and ignoring all arguments or statements Zee and I make in favor telling us to fuck off, and then FHS came in and told everyone LOL THIS THREAD SUCKS I HAVE A LIFE (which, by the way, Zee and I have been bitched out for doing before). I responded to them in the exact same tone they spoke to me in. And don't play pretend like their posts weren't aimed at Zee and I, because they were.

I work retail everyday and I'm forced to be nice to everyone. If I come off as an asshole on the internet I couldn't give less of a shit. I want to talk about pixellated characters fucking and post stupid image macros in the actual thread where they belong.

And yet, any time people try and head in the direction of story analysis and deeper understanding, people being acting obstructionist and internet tough guy.

uh no, any time the thread heads towards C/T circlejerk or NO FUN ALLOWED we become assholes.

I usually don't pick fights like this because holy fuck, it's the internet, but you're a mod. Don't you have better things you could be doing? Couldn't you at least have chewed out someone like crack who didn't post ANYTHING relevant to the discussion at hand? It makes it look like you're just buttmad that people don't agree with your opinions, bro. I'm just saying. If you're gonna mod, do it right.

I am all for "bettering this thread", but I'm a pretty realistic person. I've been on these forums for two years and every time we try to make this thread perfectly serious and on-topic it fails. Let's just resign to the fact that this thread is a lot more interesting when we let ourselves venture off-course a little (there's been some fantastic FFVII character discussions that are barely LTD relevant that took place in LTD threads because they were simply the most active) and when, goddammit, we were allowed to post fucking image macros without everyone getting all worked up about it.

Just because I posted a single fucking reaction image doesn't mean the entire thread is going to turn into gifs and kittens instead of SERIOUS CLOTI DISCUSSION.

btw, I MAD.


anyways on-topic: I agree with Omega on the subject of why the fuck was C/T so subtle. I still don't think they fucked under the Highwind, but herp opinions. And I agree with Dacon on the subject of country folk moving back to the boondocks where they came from.

Personality-wise I have no problem with Tifa, but holy crap, she's like the most intentional two dimensional character ever. There's plenty to work with in her story and yet she's treated as nothing more than a plot device for Cloud than an actual character. And that's a shame.

There's aspects of Cloti I like but this is the main reason I fell out of shiplove with them. The compilation and everything just made it worse imo.

it's true. I like fanon!Tifa more than canon!Tifa, and that's probably not a good thing.

 

[Dashell]

haha oh wow. OWD was pulling her usual routine and ignoring all arguments or statements Zee and I make in favor telling us to fuck off, and then FHS came in and told everyone LOL THIS THREAD SUCKS I HAVE A LIFE (which, by the way, Zee and I have been bitched out for doing before). I responded to them in the exact same tone they spoke to me in. And don't play pretend like their posts weren't aimed at Zee and I, because they were.

Uhm.. just to clarify something, Eerie was being rather civil and tbh, you and Zee did seem a little bit mean toward her. Granted she did take a joke post from you and try to turn it into something serious, which was odd, I did feel the responses to her were rather cold, but I also felt it was her position to say so and not mine so I didn't say anything. I think Ryu was referring to those posts when he told you guys to stop it which is why I thanked his post even though the rest of the post was ... well it was Ryu.

If he wants to address other things that went on in this thread, that's up to him but... but I kinda hope he does next time just so that it doesn't come off as bias.

save face? Haha oh wow. This coming from you (and others) who are like "HERP HERP I'M NOT A SHIPPER I JUST LOVE CANON". You know what? I'm a shipper. I post in this thread because I'm a fucking nerd and I enjoy talking about which fictional characters bang other fictional characters and all the retarded details. At least I can admit that, unlike a chunk of the people in this thread, who act like this is some deep serious discussion that actually matters.

First off, I TOO am a shipper. I will also admit this... BUT If I say Romeo and Juliet were a couple... does that mean I ship them? It's kind of along those lines when people say they aren't shippers, but honestly I think everyone here is a shipper at heart

it's true. I like fanon!Tifa more than canon!Tifa, and that's probably not a good thing.

Tifa doesn't do much these days. I think she did get kind of boring but... well what do you want her to do? She's a mother now, she can't exactly be going on on terrorist missions anymore.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Eh, if that's what you want to call it. xD

I think it came out wrong, but I guess it's more I don't understand what the thread is about any more either.

Looking at it now, thread shouldn't have been revived and I think needs to be laid to rest unless something actually relevant comes up that needs it's own debate thread again over whether Cloud is still fucking Tifa or not.

It's a drama magnet and no amount of TLS modding has been able to fix that. So if the kids can't play nice, take the toy away and let them find something else to do.

EDIT: I'm a shipper, just not a Cloud and Tifa one. I've admitted more than once I find them a bit boring and prefer a lot of other ships over them. RufusxTifa or Clack for starters... and that's just couples involving those two... cause we all know I don't need to get into Tseris.

 

[Vendel]

In any case, your follow-up post is solid, and I completely agree.

Of course you agree. My points are brilliant.

 

[Dashell]

It's a drama magnet and no amount of TLS modding has been able to fix that. So if the kids can't play nice, take the toy away and let them find something else to do.

I'm probably the biggest LTD freak here. I mean I'm making a website and I have a forum FFS. But even I agree with this. I enjoy discussing this stuff, but it just seems to cause problems here. I think the atmosphere here was much nicer without it.

Not trying to tell mods or admins how to run this place, and I have no trouble ignoring this thread if need be, but it's just not working XD So maybe it is time to just let it die. At least until something new comes out. Just a suggestion of course, no one has to listen to me

 

[Winter]

there's drama all over these forums, I don't know who all of you are kidding.

 

[Zee]

Tifa doesn't do much these days. I think she did get kind of boring but... well what do you want her to do? She's a mother now, she can't exactly be going on on terrorist missions anymore.

Honestly, I think that's what bugs me. Barret is a dad but he can do whatever he wants, but Tifa has to be the stay at home mom? Don't get me wrong, I get that Tifa's maternal and is the type that would probably not fight unless she felt she had to, but that doesn't change the fact SE seems to have no interest in her potential as a character. Isn't she like, the only female martial artist in this series? And aside from being nothing more than a plot device to the hero's story rather than given her own, she's been reduced to a housewife and faux action girl later in the series*. We've had tons of prequels, novellas, AUs and spinoffs that at this point there's no excuse for them not to get into her character.

It just comes off as insulting.

Loving two people doesn't necessarily make one a jackass, no, nor would what went on between he and Tifa under the Highwind even if he did, but the comments he made to her on the Highwind at the time Meteor was stopped in Case of Tifa would point to moving on in a callously quick fashion if there had been an equal interest in pursuing the deceased party.

But given his actions in CoT and AC, it's pretty clear he's not over Aeris -- even Tifa recognizes this, to the point where she wants to hide the delivery for flowers to her grave.

I'm just not of the mind that his love for one cancels out his love for the other; just that it's different between them.

*I'm talking AC here, for clarification, where she gets her ass knocked around. Just putting this disclaimer in b4 DISSIDIA

 

[Dashell]

I guess it wouldn't be the successor to ACF without drama

But this thread gets it worse than any of the others... at least in my experience.

Honestly, I think that's what bugs me. Barret is a dad but he can do whatever he wants, but Tifa has to be the stay at home mom? Don't get me wrong, I get that Tifa's maternal and is the type that would probably not fight unless she felt she had to, but that doesn't change the fact SE seems to have no interest in her potential as a character. Isn't she like, the only female artist in this series? And aside from being nothing more than a plot device to the hero's story rather than given her own, she's been reduced to a housewife and faux action girl later in the series. We've has tons of prequels, novellas, AUs and spinoffs that at this point there's no excuse for them not to get into her character.

Word. I think this is what a lot of people don't like about Tifa these days. I just keep hoping there's room for her to shine in the next entry. I can put up with it for now, because honestly I don't really know WHAT she could do now. There's no terrorist attacks going on, there's no Shinra, there's no Sephiroth so... well yeah what else is she gonna do? May as well start a family XD but I hope we see more of Tifa as a fighter in the future and HOPEFULLY in Dissidia. I mean obviously she's going to kick ass in there so that's great. Hopefully she isn't just some sex object in there, though I have a feeling that no matter what people will see her that way. I really liked the scenes they added with her in ACC when she kicked those Shadow Creepers and stuff. Let's hope for more of that.

*I'm talking AC here, for clarification, where she gets her ass knocked around. Just putting this disclaimer in b4 DISSIDIA

Too late

 

[Vendel]

I'm just not of the mind that his love for one cancels out his love for the other; just that it's different between them.

Yeah it is different. Cloud loves Tifa in the "have woo hoo under an Airship then begin living together" sort of way. Cloud loves Aerith in the "I'll put a ribbon on my arm like the rest of AVALANCHE" sort of way.

 

[Zee]

Uhm.. just to clarify something, Eerie was being rather civil and tbh, you and Zee did seem a little bit mean toward her. Granted she did take a joke post from you and try to turn it into something serious, which was odd, I did feel the responses to her were rather cold, but I also felt it was her position to say so and not mine so I didn't say anything.

I guess it's because I'm just used to the general atmosphere in this thread, so honestly, Eerie if you're still lurking, take my gifs with a grain of salt. It's not like I take this stuff so seriously I'd hold a personal grudge against anyone who DARED DISAGREE WITH ME

Yeah it is different. Cloud loves Tifa in the "have woo hoo under an Airship then begin living together" sort of way. Cloud loves Aerith in the "I'll put a ribbon on my arm like the rest of AVALANCHE" sort of way.

did you just refer to sex as woo hoo

virgin detected

 

[Dashell]

Woo hoo is actually a sims thing and I happen to know he's been playing Sims lately

I guess it's because I'm just used to the general atmosphere in this thread, so honestly, Eerie if you're still lurking, take my gifs with a grain of salt. It's not like I take this stuff so seriously I'd hold a personal grudge against anyone who DARED DISAGREE WITH ME

ahh... good I'm relieved, I thought you'd be mad that I said that

 

[Zee]

ahh... good I'm relieved, I thought you'd be mad that I said that

No way man, it's all good.

MORE STUFF ABOUT TIFA BECAUSE THIS THOUGHT HAS BEEN BUGGING ME

I realize they use her as a rock for Cloud's mental instability, and usually describe her as just being the cheerful center of the team -- and while not entirely untrue, am I the only person who got the impression Tifa was also a little fucked up in the head during FF7? She was optimistic, but initially it was in sort of a twisted way where she wanted to believe the lies as much as Cloud did (but didn't have a Mako poisoning catalyst to help her). And coming from a childhood filled with some serious Nightmare Fuel, I can't blame her.

Maybe it's just because I find screwed up characters somewhat intriguing, but I always found that an aspect of her character that made her really interesting. That she held back the truth from Cloud not just because she was scared, but because she wanted to play it out as well. And that the lifestream scene wasn't just Cloud piecing his mind back together, but Tifa accepting the truth.

I mean obvs. this was never really expanded upon in the realm of canon itself but, thoughts?

 

[Dashell]

Maybe it's just because I find screwed up characters somewhat intriguing, but I always found that an aspect of her character that made her really interesting. That she held back the truth from Cloud not just because she was scared, but because she wanted to play it out as well.

I don't think she wanted to play it out, I think she hid it because she wasn't sure of herself. She had the memories that Cloud wasn't there, yet somehow Cloud knew stuff he shouldn't have. So she didn't tell him because she was doubting herself. She was questioning her own sanity. I guess she didn't know if she OR Cloud was screwed up... I can bet that'd be hard to deal with.

 

[Zee]

I don't think she wanted to play it out, I think she hid it because she wasn't sure of herself. She had the memories that Cloud wasn't there, yet somehow Cloud knew stuff he shouldn't have. So she didn't tell him because she was doubting herself. She was questioning her own sanity. I guess she didn't know if she OR Cloud was screwed up... I can bet that'd be hard to deal with.

That's another way to look at it, too. Hrrrm.

She was more the type to try and cover up the hard times with "everything is okay" than wanting to deal with them.

Which makes sense considering the town she came from did just that. Honestly I really wonder how it was for Tifa growing up after Cloud left -- aside from reading the papers. The Mako reactor and the Shinra mansion, not to mention how easily the townsfolk were paid off suggests some pretty disturbing stuff. It also would link a deeper hatred/fear for Shinra than just the death of her father.

 

[Vendel]

did you just refer to sex as woo hoo

virgin detected

Whats that Zee? I couldn't see anything over you dodging the issue to avoid admitting I am right.

 

[minimosey]

The Mako reactor and the Shinra mansion, not to mention how easily the townsfolk were paid off suggests some pretty disturbing stuff.

The townsfolk weren't the ones from before the fire, though.

 

[Zee]

Whats that Zee? I couldn't see anything over you dodging the issue to avoid admitting I am right.

yeah no

highwind sex is implied at best and nonexistent at most
and even tifa recognizes cloud's feelings for aeris, several times. unless you're suggesting tifa doesn't know shit about cloud, so

yeah

also lol @ you dodging the issue of your virginity

The townsfolk weren't the ones from before the fire, though.

Ah, it's been a while, sorry.

 

[Dashell]

and even tifa recognizes cloud's feelings for aeris, several times. unless you're suggesting tifa doesn't know shit about cloud, so

You mean because she's jealous? Or something else I'm forgetting?

 

[Zee]

You mean because she's jealous? Or something else I'm forgetting?

There's the jealously quote (blah blah cloud and aeris creating their own world blah) but in CoT I recall her being so hesitant about having Cloud deliver flowers to her grave because it's where he lost her.

 

[Dashell]

Well yeah but that doesn't prove he loves her romanticallys. Johnny was jealous of Cloud, does that mean that he and Tifa at that moment, loved each other? And she doesn't want Cloud to be reminded of Aerith's death and blame himself and beat himself over it was how I took that

and that's exactly what happened, he went into a depression because of it.

 

[Zee]

With the amount of parallels that come up during Cloud/Tifa's relationship to Cloud/Aeris, not to mention Cloud's actions in general, it seems like it just makes more sense storytelling-wise that it's romantic.

 

[Dashell]

With the amount of parallels that come up during Cloud/Tifa's relationship to Cloud/Aeris, not to mention Cloud's actions in general, it seems like it just makes more sense storytelling-wise that it's romantic.

... such as? XD
I didn't notice any really.

 

[Vendel]

yeah no

Yeah yeah

highwind sex is implied at best and nonexistent at most

Not according to every official source.

and even tifa recognizes cloud's feelings for aeris, several times.

Yes Tifa recognizes Cloud feels guilty.

unless you're suggesting tifa doesn't know shit about cloud, so

At this point I think we need to call into question your knowledge of Cloud. And Tifa. And Aerith. And Zack. And Barret. And Yuffie. And Cid. But not Vincent, the animal or the doll.

also lol @ you dodging the issue of your virginity

And here I thought "CloTi's" were the ones obsessed with sex? Such a filthy disgusting thing. Nothing like soul fusion and flower field romps.

 

[Celes Chere]

I TOO am a shipper

If you enjoy a pairing you're a shipper. I mean, I don't think there are RULES to be a shipper or not. . . If you like a pairing, that's what you are. I think there's a difference like this: "I see Romeo and Juliet are a couple, but I don't enjoy them as a couple/am not crazy about the couple, I see the fact that they are together"

When it comes to the LTD though, this one in particular, I do not believe people would be arguing so adamantly if they did not enjoy these couples in some way. To debate something passionately, you've got to support your side just as passionately. . . and I really doubt anyone would invest so much time in this if they did not ship the pairing that they debate for.

I enjoy discussing this stuff, but it just seems to cause problems here.

Well, it really shouldn't be causing problems. .__. The thread suddenly became filled with drama over stupid reasons. If people are discussing things just fine, then why put in a complaint? I still don't understand this. I don't understand the member bashing, either. But if this thread is to be closed because of 'drama' and 'pointlessness/ off topicness' then I guess it's time to shut down all of TLS hurrdurr.

And, I've never found Tifa boring. Not even in Advent Children. Sure, she's not doing as much as she used to be... neither is anyone else. =I Cloud's making deliveries, how exciting. It wasn't until he got Geostigma that shit started to happen. xD Sure, there's the character emotions and growth, but as for action... it just wasn't there until that happened. AC did a poor job showing how strong and awesome ALL of the characters were... they were focused on Cloud only.

even Tifa recognizes this, to the point where she wants to hide the delivery for flowers to her grave.

Tifa is a very insecure girl, though.

I agree with you about Tifa's flaws, though. And that's one of the reasons I like her - she isn't perfect. She's got almost as much emotional break down going on as Cloud does. Just like Cloud, she lost everything too. And that's why I really do love this couple... all they have left is each other. Cloud implies this during the HW scene when he says: "We don't have a home to go back to" meaning, just the two of them. Everything about that scene, just screams Cloti to me. The way they're both still shy around each other, despite all that's happened.. and how at that moment, they are led to believe all they have left is each other. I find that extremely romantic.

Also,The Ultimania says that she hides it because she doesn't want to hurt Cloud. She waited for a time that was right, and actually felt bad about it.

 

[Dashell]

I still don't understand this. I don't understand the member bashing, either. But if this thread is to be closed because of 'drama' and 'pointlessness/ off topicness' then I guess it's time to shut down all of TLS hurrdurr.

Seeing as how that's the only time TLS gets any attention, I'd have to say I agree.