New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Zee]

@Que: In both cases Cloud has someone to protect (his family, Aeris); in both cases, one person in the relationship is (in Cloud's case, seemingly) doomed to die. The smile Cloud gives Tifa at the end of CoT reminded me of the way Aeris left him -- she parted with a joke and a smile.

In the context of the whole thing, it just seems to make more sense and is more emotionally involving if you view Cloud's love for Aeris. His actions just seemed like a bit much for grief over a friend, when he specifically seeks her out during his slow death and is weighing himself down so badly for his supposed failure. And I think that ties in well with why that guilt drove him away from Tifa -- not just that he let a friend down, but that he's trying to start a new life with someone he loves, but it's hard knowing the last person you loved was gutted right in front of you and it was sort of your fault.

As I understand it in ACC they also flash Aeris' face right before her death when Tifa is about to be crushed, which makes the connection about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

EDIT BECAUSE SUDDENLY POSTS

And, I've never found Tifa boring. Not even in Advent Children. Sure, she's not doing as much as she used to be... neither is anyone else. =I Cloud's making deliveries, how exciting. It wasn't until he got Geostigma that shit started to happen. xD Sure, there's the character emotions and growth, but as for action... it just wasn't there until that happened. AC did a poor job showing how strong and awesome ALL of the characters were... they were focused on Cloud only.

I honestly haven't liked any of the characterization outside of the OGC and I could write essays about all of them (AERIS WILL BE NEXT, OH LAWD).

 

[Vendel]

In the context of the whole thing, it just seems to make more sense and is more emotionally involving if you view Cloud's love for Aeris. His actions just seemed like a bit much for grief over a friend, when he specifically seeks her out during his slow death and is weighing himself down so badly for his supposed failure.

I know what you mean. When we first see Cloud in AC sitting there in front of that sword lamenting the fact that.....er wait.

And I think that ties in well with why that guilt drove him away from Tifa -- not just that he let a friend down, but that he's trying to start a new life with someone he loves, but it's hard knowing the last person you loved was gutted right in front of you and it was sort of your fault.

No no Zack was shot.

As I understand it in ACC they also flash Aeris' face right before her death when Tifa is about to be crushed, which makes the connection about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

So let me get this straight. Cloud so loved Aerith that he laments on his loss two years later. But two weeks after her death he is hooking up with another woman? Just brilliant.

 

[Dashell]

@Que: In both cases Cloud has someone to protect (his family, Aeris);

Cloud would protect anyone though, I don't think who he protects is related to who he loves romantically.

in both cases, one person in the relationship is (in Cloud's case, seemingly) doomed to die.

What? Who was destined to die with C/T? Denzel?.. but he didn't die...

The smile Cloud gives Tifa at the end of CoT reminded me of the way Aeris left him -- she parted with a joke and a smile.

... pumpkin what?

I don't really see those as parallels, a lot of that seems to be speculation but nothing definite.

In the context of the whole thing, it just seems to make more sense and is more emotionally involving if you view Cloud's love for Aeris. His actions just seemed like a bit much for grief over a friend, when he specifically seeks her out during his slow death and is weighing himself down so badly for his supposed failure. And I think that ties in well with why that guilt drove him away from Tifa -- not just that he let a friend down, but that he's trying to start a new life with someone he loves, but it's hard knowing the last person you loved was gutted right in front of you and it was sort of your fault.

I have to disagree with this. I mean honestly if I had... somehow like ran over a child accidentally with my car, and I didn't know the child, I'd feel guilty as hell about it. And I'd probably go through similar things that Cloud went through. He feels responsible for the death of a loved one, a very dear loved one. And he's trying to move on but all he can think about is that he let two of his closest friends down. You're forgetting about Zack. He also feels responsible for Zack's death. Feeling responsible for the deaths of two of your dearest loved ones isn't something that's going to just go away easily.

As I understand it in ACC they also flash Aeris' face right before her death when Tifa is about to be crushed, which makes the connection about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

And Zack before Denzel, they were paralleling the deaths but it had nothing to do with romantic love

 

[Zee]

So let me get this straight. Cloud so loved Aerith that he laments on his loss two years later. But two weeks after her death he is hooking up with another woman? Just brilliant.

hooking up with?

ahahaha what

 

[Dashell]

hooking up with?

ahahaha what

Zack

oh wait...

EDIT
oh I thought that said "with who?" XD

 

[Vendel]

hooking up with?

ahahaha what

Avoiding the issue once again Zee?

 

[Zee]

You're forgetting about Zack. He also feels responsible for Zack's death. Feeling responsible for the deaths of two of your dearest loved ones isn't something that's going to just go away easily.

I'm not forgetting about Zack; he feels guilt over that as well, but Zack is clearly not the catalyst for this sudden destructive behavior. Shit starts going downhill when Cloud delivers flowers to Aeris' grave. There's a significant focus on her in the storyline, and he seeks her forgiveness, not anyone else's. iirc the wolf vanishes when she helps him realize she never blamed him at all.

Again this is a significant difference in the guilt of losing a friend to losing something else.

I mean no offense to Zack but we get a slo-mo of Aeris in the church leaving for good and Zack just waves in the background. rly.

And Zack before Denzel, they were paralleling the deaths but it had nothing to do with romantic love

Denzel is not a romantic interest (and neither was Zack, at least ~officially~). SE is not oblivious to the ship wars, they know how recognized Aeris and Tifa are as love interests, and they created a direct parallel between them. It's a pretty clear message imo.

 

[Vendel]

I'm not forgetting about Zack; he feels guilt over that as well, but Zack is clearly not the catalyst for this sudden destructive behavior. Shit starts going downhill when Cloud delivers flowers to Aeris' grave.

No that would be Geostigma and Denzel. But Cloud so loved Aerith that he left his only begotten son to be with her.

Feeling depressed and abandoning your family without a word are slightly different on the "sudden destructive behavior" meter.

There's a significant focus on her in the storyline, and he seeks her forgiveness, not anyone else's. iirc the wolf vanishes when she helps him realize she never blamed him at all.

The wolf appears when he finds Tifa in the Church. He must have been having Aerith flashbacks.

Again this is a significant difference in the guilt of losing a friend to losing something else.

Yes. But Aerith isn't something else now is she? That is reserved for Tifa.

I mean no offense to Zack but we get a slo-mo of Aeris in the church leaving for good and Zack just waves in the background. rly.

It's not like they leave side by side. Oh wait. And his wave was in slo-mo as well.

Denzel is not a romantic interest (and neither was Zack, at least ~officially~). SE is not oblivious to the ship wars, they know how recognized Aeris and Tifa are as love interests, and they created a direct parallel between them. It's a pretty clear message imo.

Aerith was never a love interest of Cloud's. He was a love interest of hers. Big difference.

 

[Zee]

No that would be Geostigma and Denzel. But Cloud so loved Aerith that he left his only begotten son to be with her.

Feeling depressed and abandoning your family without a word are slightly different on the "sudden destructive behavior" meter.

1) who said that when
2) are you suggesting heavy drinking and then abandoning your happy home life to go die alone isn't destructive behavior?

wow


career advice: never be a shrink

Aerith was never a love interest of Cloud's. He was a love interest of hers. Big difference.

Keep telling yourself that bro.

 

[Vendel]

Since Zee clearly wants to avoid the issue can anyone tell me what her point is?

Because all I can see is some clerith fanfiction where The highwind scene, his relationships with Tifa, Denzel and Zack are all pushed into the background. And his main motivator is his love for Aerith.

 

[Zee]

Since Zee clearly wants to avoid the issue can anyone tell me what her point is?

Because all I can see is some clerith fanfiction where The highwind scene, his relationships with Tifa, Denzel and Zack are all pushed into the background. And his main motivator is his love for Aerith.

 

[Celes Chere]

Ven... Zee isn't like that at all. She has strong feeling about CxA, but I think she finds it pointless to dignify you with an answer.

Though, I cannot speak for her I suppose. XD

 

[Vendel]

Ven... Zee isn't like that at all. She has strong feeling about CxA, but I think she finds it pointless to dignify you with an answer.

I wouldn't put Zee and dignify in the same sentence. It diminishes the word.

But I will sit back and wait for the next fanfiction post. Or maybe it will be another gif or further avoidance? I can hardly wait.

 

[Zee]

I wouldn't put Zee and dignify in the same sentence. It diminishes the word.

kinda hard to debate with someone seriously when they aren't reading anything you're actually typing and half their rebuttals have nothing to do with what you just posted

 

[Vendel]

Once again you don't disappoint.


I wonder how long can you go before you make an actual point? Because I haven't seen you make one....well maybe ever. But clearly not on this latest discussion.

 

[Zee]

My initial posts had nothing to do with making a point, it was character speculation. You chose to debate it. I defended my assertions.

tbh half of the shit you were posting made no sense whatsoever and had no relation to what i was saying

so



don't get mad when i post a gif when you leave no way to give a legit response

 

[Vendel]

My initial posts had nothing to do with making a point, it was character speculation. You chose to debate it. I defended my assertions.

Defended your assertions? With what? Oh wait now I remember.

"did you just refer to sex as woo hoo

virgin detected"


And who could forget?


"hooking up with?

ahahaha what"


Silly me. I guess you win this round.

tbh half of the shit you were posting made no sense whatsoever and had no relation to what i was saying

so

I will add basic comprehension failure to your list.

don't get mad when i post a gif when you leave no way to give a legit response

Can you have a legit response when you get called out on your baseless assertions?

So gifs are pretty much par for the course at this point.

 

[Celes Chere]

I wouldn't put Zee and dignify in the same sentence. It diminishes the word.

 

[Dashell]

*looks at topic*

Spoiler

if you can't beat em..

I even made it myself

 

[Zee]

I will add basic comprehension failure to your list.

Because all I can see is some clerith fanfiction where The highwind scene, his relationships with Tifa, Denzel and Zack are all pushed into the background. And his main motivator is his love for Aerith.

suddenly remembered why i usually skip over your posts, going back to doing that now

 

[Vendel]

suddenly remembered why i usually skip over your posts, going back to doing that now

I don't know what else to call baseless assertions other than fanfiction Zee. If you don't like it then get a base to assert from.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Doing moderation by phone ftl. Vendel, cut it out. Your only warning before infraction time.

Zee may be coming back at you, but it seems clear you're the antagonist at the moment.

I already have like three more pages to catch up on, peeps, so give me a break between now and when I get off work in the next few hours, ok? =(

 

[Bex]

There are some things the human mind was not made to comprehend.
This thread is one of them.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i seriously

it's like zee is at a restaurant, says she didn't like the waitress cause she didn't seem as nice as she remembered, and vendel came up and was like 'WELL THE SOUP IS FUCKING DELICIOUS OH RIGHT I FORGOT PEOPLE LIKE YOU HATE SOUP' and then goes off on several tangents related to people who hate soup.

so maybe zee hates soup, but who fucking cares, it's not what she's talking about in the first place.

 

[Alex]

Is the soup a Cloti or a Clerith here? Your answer could make all the difference.