New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Vendel]

Okay I'm sorry Winter, don't hate me >_<
I'm trying to figure out the difference, because to me there is none.

When you said "even though we saw more emotion out of Cloud in that one scene than in the rest of the game combined" you did not mean the same thing as "Aerith's death is what caused Cloud to go all emotional, more so than the rest of the game combined"

Can you just please explain the difference.

The difference is that Winter is focusing on the wording instead of the point so she can shift the argument.

So we are all wrong because she actually meant something else entirely. Or was it me that meant something else? Either way she speak english good and we not.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Are you projecting possibilities in an AU where Aeris lives and saying I'm making unfounded assertions? Quite frankly we don't know what would have happened had she lived, let alone how that'd affect Cloud and his pursuit of Sephiroth.

Hahahaha. English motherfucker, do you speak it?! Look at the words I used, the operative ones you should look for are "I see no reason why." I am not saying what would or would not have happened had Aerith lived, I am saying I see no reason why Cloud would have backed off the hunt for Sephy if she hadn't died. As in, there is no evidence that things would happen the way you seem to believe.

I do not understand how it's such a ~giant leap~ to think that seeing his friend murdered in front of him and being forced to almost commit the act himself wouldn't add some serious fuel to the "imma kill you" fire.

Yes, more fuel on the fire. The fire which was already there and raging under the surface. Aerith's death was no drop in the bucket, no, but there is plenty reason for Cloud to chase after Sephiroth with intent to kill him even without that. It is important. But I cannot say that I believe it to be the "main" reason or whatever you're calling it by now.

 

[Zee]

I'm talking about something deep inside Cloud here, I'll call it a speculation on my part, fine, but you can't just discredit it right off the bat just because I don't provide ROCK HARD SOLID evidence.

....huh?

okay first off if it's speculation or based off your own head canon then whatevs but this is a thread about pointless arguing or exchanging ideas and whatnot so when i say "i don't really see anything like that" it's not "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BELIEVE THAT EVER" but yes some insight into how you came to that conclusion would be nice

also, chill. i'm not attacking you. this thread is supermad as it is.

 

[Dashell]

So we are all wrong because she actually meant something else entirely. Or was it me that meant something else? Either way she speak english good and we not.

See now Imma say to you that I think she legitimately felt you were saying something different where as I did not.

 

[Max Payne]

Also, I thought Aerith's death made Cloud feel even more depressed and powerless in the face of it all. I really didn't think he'd have gone any further forward without Tifa and co. to support him and give him strength.

I mean, if you follow from the moment she dies up to the climax where he finally cracks under Sephiroth, you can see him lose more and more willpower imo. I don't really think Aerith's death really made Cloud more determined, I think it made him feel more like he had no choice but to pursue Sephiroth to the end.

Just my humble opinion on that matter.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Does everything need evidence now? This baffles me. I see opinions being thrown left and right here, so how come I need evidence for my one measly argument?

I'm talking about something deep inside Cloud here, I'll call it a speculation on my part, fine, but you can't just discredit it right off the bat just because I don't provide ROCK HARD SOLID evidence. A lot of people who post here actually say things that lack evidence as well. I'm sorry for posting stupidity then. All my fault for not bringing cold hard facts with me.

Cloud calls Aerith mother, he lost his mother, he feels sad about Aerith's death. One of the reasons he tried to kill Sephiroth in Nibelheim = his mother dead. It comes crashing down on him. He couldn't take it anymore. Cue the dramatic speech about his feelings. Sephiroth killing motivator switch ON!

Not so hard.

Possible double post but lulz, who cares. Anyone else find it funny that Mei's theory as explained here could support the arguments of the very people who called it stupid? Cause I find it funny.

.... Bwaahahahaha!

 

[Winter]

The difference is that Winter is focusing on the wording instead of the point so she can shift the argument.

So we are all wrong because she actually meant something else entirely. Or was it me that meant something else? Either way she speak english good and we not.

i'm not shifting my argument, dunkass, i was clarifying for quex.

i still maintain what I said: we saw a breaking point in cloud that was highlighted by how emotional he was. that is all, bro.

Possible double post but lulz, who cares. Anyone else find it funny that Mei's theory as explained here could support the arguments of the very people who called it stupid? Cause I find it funny.

1. don't say lulz
2. i've been saying this whole time that i did not find her personal argument stupid at all and actually quite agree with her?

god you are so internet cool

Hahahaha. English motherfucker, do you speak it?!

 

[Vendel]

Because you were closest to that one friend, does that mean the other friends are what, chopped liver and just aren't as important?

Is anyone saying Clouds friends are chopped liver?

Would you really choose saving one person over the rest, or fight more for one person more than the others?

Again if you read my post I do point out that Clouds personal reason for fighting is in fact Tifa.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I guess that I'm the only one that ever thought SE referring to Aerith or Tifa as "motherly" was always bullshit.

It's so stupid to categorize doting on people you love exclusively as "motherly". Just herpderp.

Imo anyway.

It is? I see it everyday in my life anyway. My mother dotes on us the same way she dotes on my father, just with less sex .

So... I understand what this "motherly" thing is all about.

 

[Zee]

Look at the words I used, the operative ones you should look for are "I see no reason why." I am not saying what would or would not have happened had Aerith lived, I am saying I see no reason why Cloud would have backed off the hunt for Sephy if she hadn't died.

that would be why i used the word possibilities

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

i'm not shifting my argument, dunkass, i was clarifying for quex.

i still maintain what I said: we saw a breaking point in cloud that was highlighted by how emotional he was. that is all, bro.


1. don't say lulz
2. i've been saying this whole time that i did not find her personal argument stupid at all and actually quite agree with her?

god you are so internet cool

1.) No, fuck you.
2.) Commenting on how the whole bit with the "mother" thing started, not wherever you are now.

I'm awesome on or off the net I'll have you know.

And yes, yes I went there. Deal with it cupcake.

that would be why i used the word possibilities

Touche, I'll give you that one.

 

[I Am Not Me]

kay first off if it's speculation or based off your own head canon then whatevs but this is a thread about pointless arguing or exchanging ideas and whatnot so when i say "i don't really see anything like that" it's not "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BELIEVE THAT EVER" but yes some insight into how you came to that conclusion would be nice

K

In a way, I think Cloud projected his mother onto Aerith. She's described as a mother figure to him and the planet, and he even calls her 'mother', right? By witnessing her death, and failing to protect her, he sees his own failure to save his mother in the situation, and so feels that way.

I'm sorry but this mother argument is just. so. stupid. Tifa is motherly and calls Cloud a big kid, but clearly that's not a deterrent in their romantic life, right? So why should that be said of Aeris? It's confirmed both girls are motherly, Tifa in a literal sense, Aeris in an earth mother sense. He's reacting to the feel of her presence which is warm and comforting and yes, motherly, but I doubt if you asked him about his relationship with her that'd be something he'd seriously consider.

What Winter said about being defensive. I'm frustrated with the mother argument on both sides which had nothing to do with your argument, but was related to that topic hence my rant. And I don't really see anything to support Cloud projecting his mother onto Aeris. His unconscious call isn't really evidence imo.

 

[Celes Chere]

Bah, I still mean the same thing. Seriously, I think Cloud treats them equally, as in he wouldn't choose one person over the other. Simple as that.

And dats my opinion and I'm not going to spend 43567352345 pages arguing about it, because I really do not care enough lol.

 

[Dashell]

Bah, I still mean the same thing.

But ... they aren't the same thing
Not even close D:


and what do you mean you don't want to spend 43567352345 pages arguing about it? THIS IS THE LTD THREAD! WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

 

[Vendel]

Bah, I still mean the same thing. Seriously, I think Cloud treats them equally, as in he wouldn't choose one person over the other. Simple as that.

Except he does.

 

[Zee]

K

yes honey i know what i posted

granted i should have spaced it better since the initial part was a rant and the second part was towards your argument

 

[Max Payne]

It is? I see it everyday in my life anyway. My mother dotes on us the same way she dotes on my father, just with less sex .

So... I understand what this "motherly" thing is all about.

So, any kind of affection that is excessive in regards to people you love is motherly just because it's a woman doing it? Bleh.

When a husband dotes on his wife do you see that as him being "fatherly"? No. No you don't.

I think "loving" is quite sufficient in that regard. Mothers do pretty much everything for their kids. They are their primary caretakers(stereotypically anyway) and the general figure of reliance for their brood.

There are just some things lovers don't do for each other that they would do for their children. Women don't do every little thing for their men unless the relationship is pretty fucked up imo.

There's also a degree of romance and intimacy between lovers that's thankfully complete absent from their relationship with their children(most of the time), that makes such a statement retarded to me.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

If Cloud doesn't choose one or the other they both die. In that position, most everyone I know with the notable exception of you my dear Tiff would choose their lover in the end. And take this the right way, if we're ever in that situation, I'd much rather you choose your dude over me rather than let us both die

 

[Dashell]

Now what if Cloud found out he had a sister? Would he choose the sister or Tifa? That one I can see being tough

 

[Celes Chere]

I didn't explain it well, I guess. Anyway, dats my opinion /end of discussion

 

[Dashell]

and for the record, we did talk about this over a span of 9 pages already

 

[Vendel]

I don't know whats so crazy about Cloud placing his family over his friends.

 

[Winter]

1.) No, fuck you.

I'm awesome on or off the net I'll have you know.

And yes, yes I went there. Deal with it cupcake.

lol ok

 

[Vendel]

and for the record, we did talk about this over a span of 9 pages already

That's the LTD we all know and love.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

lol ok

Awww what a cute little macro. It utterly fails to apply to me, but still, quite cute. Seriously, come talk to me when you get talented enough to take just the cherry off a lit cigarette with a bullwhip. Maybe then I might believe you know what non-internet related awesome looks like.