New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)
- Thread starter Ryushikaze
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Splintered
unsavory tart
Except a lot of people here, including myself and Fairheartstrife, are not Cleriths and say, hey, when casually playing the game it reminded me of the white materia.
No one says its suppose to represent Aerith's true love for Cloud. It's suppose to represent the world in general. Holy is the only recognizable materia in FFVII world with the exception of the black materia.
Scias
Pro Adventurer
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- Vega, Kyle Hyde
Well, the Materia are the "crystals" of FFVII. And the White Materia is the most important Materia, not counting Black Materia for obvious reasons.
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
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- FHS, that cloti bitch
Q, what the fuck? EVERYONE'S crystal is specific. Each represents their world--where they belong. EACH ONE is different, and each very specific. The question would be WHY would Cloud's not be, and instead some generic 'lump' of something that may or maynot represent the planet. The white materia does not represent Aerith. I can not stress that enough. It's the only materia capable of direct communing with the planet, and if you believe his crystal is materia, then it makes the most sense for that materia to be the most vital and representative of that world.
So, how would it being the white materia make it anymore specific than anyone elses? Tidus's grid/sphere/ domie blitzball thingie? Squall's feather? The crystals represent the world--the character--and what they're fighting for. Cloud is (in his world) fighting for his damn planet and Holy makes a hell of a lot more sense than Ice/Cure/Fire if you ask me.
But again, shippers can't give an inch, so feel free to go back to the squabbling
. "Nooooo, it's some generic blah blah materia because why the fuck would it be the white materia?" and ignore the fact that to the planet, to Cloud and his crew, the white materia (at this point) is the most important materia ever. No wonder Cleriths never come here.
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Oh for fuck's sake, you KNOW what I mean, I hate it when people do that. They know exactly what I mean yet they focus on one little part of my statement. Why would Cloud's crystal be holy if Tidus's crystal isn't some specific sphere.
Unless you're going to say they are if so, please answer Ryu's questions
Which of the four crystals is OK holding? Which of the 8 does Cecil get? Whose corpse is Terra clutching? What in the name of fuck is Squall holding?
lol
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Alessa Gillespie
a letter to my future self
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- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
terra's crystal could be her esper!dad, zidane's is the crystal in the logo of his game, and im too tired to give explanations for the other ones. also ff8 is terrible
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
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- FHS, that cloti bitch
If anyone else's crystals could be a direct representation of their planet and the quest they are on let me know. The crystals represent the character and they represent the character's world. It makes fuckall sense for Cloud's to be materia but NOT the white materia for the reasons I've already stated. And Ryu can bring his parsimonious ass to me if he wants to debate it. However, proving that the materia is or isn't the white materia was never my damn point. Look, if people want to see it as generic materia, fine. Whatever, I don't care if people want to believe it's cure or fire or ice or just a pretty glowing rock. However, you can't blindly assert that it's materia and then say well...it's any materia BUT this one. That's fucking dumb. And that's my point.
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Why can't it be a crystal shaped like Materia? Know what I mean? I don't think it's actual materia. The crystals are meant to lead them home and that's all. IMO, it's a crystal with the likeness of Materia. Same with everyone else. Tidus wasn't given a sphere with a video on it, he was giving a crystal with the likeness of it. I honestly always thought this, but my point in my previous points was I can see the resemblance to the White Materia.
BTW
BTW
I honestly don't even see how you can be making it sound like we're such idiots for questioning the logic on it being White Materia when you don't even know what the crystals ARE.
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Alessa Gillespie
a letter to my future self
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- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
okay i have heard squall's compared to draw points but i have played enough ff8 to just not see it. aren't draw points little ball-shapes with circles or squares or whatever the fuck else feels like shooting out of it?
squalls crystal looks like some retarded gunblade or some shit
Elisa Maza
Whomst
I agree. None of the crystals of the characters are the crystals in their world. They are just shaped this way. Unless the gigantic crystal from Zidane's world decided to shrink itself and have a road trip to the Dissidia universe to play hide-and-seek with him, or something. Which would be a stupid assumption.
Same with Cloud's. It's not a materia, White, Black or Yellow With Purple Dots, just like Zidane's crystal is not the crystal from his world. They are their own crystals, created by Cosmos' powers and their... will (?), which are just shaped this way.
So no, this isn't the White materia. Whether it LOOKS like the White materia or not... who knows, who cares. Why is this significant?
Oh wait. It isn't.
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Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
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- FHS, that cloti bitch
See my earlier reply:
It very well IS a crystal shaped like an orb (of materia, probably). Again, Q, I don't think it is THE white materia. My POINT is people being all "NO YOU'RE WRONG" whenever the idea of the crystal appearing as/resembling the white materia comes up. If it's a crystal representation of materia, then why would it be so far fetched for it to look like the White Materia? (Again, for the reasons I already listed).
You're telling me it's not a silver feather? Like folded wings? Okay, Q, what the fuck do you see?
Possible composition: "http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l72/lansparrow/?action=view¤t=VIIIcrystal.jpg"
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Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I'd repeat none of the others are specific like that but...
feh
I don't know, but it doesn't look like any feather I've ever seen. I agree it looks like a gunblade tbh.
that looks even less like a feather... and is it a feather or a wing? Those are really different.
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Elisa Maza
Whomst
Dunno about Q, but it reminds me this:
Obviously, this represents how Rinoa has made Squall her bitch.
"CLEAN THE HOUSE!"
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
So Tidus isn't holding a Jecht Sphere...? Squall isn't holding a deformed gunblade? (please tell me how that represents his entire world and is not player specific)... Here's my point, Q, and I'm only gonna spell it out one more time.
Cloud's Crystal is most likely a visual representation of materia. ANY materia. It's more likely and makes more sense (IMO) to represent the white materia, but I'm not exclusively saying it IS. Just as no one--not you, Vendel or even mighty Ryu--can exclusively say it ISN'T. Are we on the same page yet?
It looked like a clump of silver feathers to me when I played it. But, it could be a deformed gunblade, the ragnorak, a very uncomfortable dildo. In any case, the crystal is specific to Squall. **gasp**
Alessa Gillespie
a letter to my future self
- AKA
- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
idk how this proves the white materia is SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT that cloud's crystal is obviously not it.
me said:
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Technically, I'm not saying it can't be. I'm saying that it probably isn't.
True. Of course, I don't think it's anything but a crystal that basically resembles a Materia, just as Bartz's crystal basically resembles a crystal job shard, and Terra's an esper's remains, but neither is one of those, nor is meant to represent any one in particular.
I see what you did there. Approve.
Lol, okay fine what really happened here was a Clerith brought this to my attention. I didn't want to say that because I figured you'd be all "Which Clerith? Why can't she come here to make her claims?" so I figured it'd be better to just say I did it myself. Apparently it wasn't
So yeah, not doing anyone's work, they did it really. I just posted the pic when I saw it because, I had to admit, yeah it did have swirls in it.
But swirls aren't stripes and the more recent incarnation of Materia all have a slightly mottled color to them.
I think maybe my bias was getting in the way before. Maybe that's why I really couldn't see it. I mean, look really closely Ryu, can you honestly say this looks nothing like White Materia? What's so different, or is it different at all?
Color, lack of wide white stripes running in parallel bands. And the size. Yes yes, 'But Zidane's was shrunk' but why inflate the WM by 3 or 4 times its diameter?
A light green with blocked out bits, given the almost excessively mentioned opaque white lines.
The thing is, that still makes FF7 an exception. That idea, that it's the WM because it's the most important materia for a number of reasons, does not follow with the other heroes and their crystals. There are 4 crystals from FF1 and FF3. 8 from FFIV. 22 crystal shards in 5. 28 Espers available to the party. Spheres are like VHSs in 10, and job classes in 10-2. 2's crystal just holds Ultima, 9's crystal is actually the crystal from which all word arise, not just Gaia or Terra. Then there's Squall's thing, which by all rights should engender a lot more discussion than it does because what is that thing?
The same way that Cecil's crystal is a crystal, but not one of the light nor the dark crystals, and of no particular element.
That's exactly what I came here to say. It may be the white materia, so what? It doesn't represent Aerith, it represents The Planet. You know, Cloud's world.
Now, the flower field may represent her... But that isn't any indication of Cloud x Aerith.
I don't think it's the white materia. I don't think it has to be LTD related to think it isn't. Just like I don't think Tidus's sphere represents any particular sphere, or Terra's any particular esper. They aren't symbols of 'the biggest and most important thing' on the planet, just in the shape of local sources of power. And Squall's deformed thing.
Which is why I ask the question of which ones OK, Cecil, Bartz, Terra, and Tidus supposed to be holding, because they too are holding crystals that look like any other of what they are shaped after.
All of the crystals are not specific INSTANCES of things, however, nor do they represent them. Yes, they all do coincide which crystals seen in the original game (Once again, save squall) but none of them are any of them in particular. That's why you need to apply the thinking to all the warriors and their crystals. The 'Cecil Nookie rule' is a humorous way to say that you need to check your logic for how you think one warrior interacts with Dissidia and apply it to the others, to see if it holds.
Firion is not fighting for the right to cast Ultima, for one. His crystal is not the symbol for that which he fights. And again, this falls flat to me, because you argue that making it the white Materia would not make it any more specific than Tidus's crystal, but you're not even sure what it is. Which sphere is it? Which esper does Terra hold? Why does that esper represent her world more than any others? Which of the eight crystals of FFIV gets the honor of being Cecil's?
But again, shippers can't give an inch, so feel free to go back to the squabbling
You will not denigrate the good name of Chocobo Lure like that.
Seriously, It's not for LT reasons in the slightest I don't think the crystal is the WM or ANY materia in particular. Partly because it's not actually a materia. But more because that's breaking the established pattern of each crystal not being any particular example of their type but a general example thereof.
This last exchange has been pretty civil, actually. Even Venny seems to have kept on his leash.
You're right that Terra's crystal could be her dad. Once again, I don't deny it's possible. I just don't think it's likely. Likewise, Zidane's crystal is shaped after the major crystal at the origin of all. So to is Firi's almost certainly the (completely pointless otherwise) crystal that grants Ultima (seriously. It's a spellbook in quartz). But WoL, OK, Cecil, Bartz, and Tidus all come from worlds that have a number of crystals. Terra too. With OK, Cecil, Bartz, and Tidus, there's no particular reason to think that their crystals are any particular crystal, which makes it less likely that the crystals of their comrades are supposed to be the same as well.
And given that Firi's crystal is similar in shape to something completely and utterly irrelevant apart from being a source of magic, and that that's what ties all the other crystals in their original incarnations together (granting magic and or power in some form), that would seem to be the thread tying them all together.
I don't think it's ANY materia. Just as I don't think Cecil's is ANY particular crystal and Firion's won't give him Ultima, Tidus's won't record home movies, and Terra's won't teach her any magic, but less vanish and doom (shakes fist).
I don't think any of their crystals represent any particular source of power from their home worlds, just sources of power in general.
This does still leave us scratching our heads with Squall's thingy, but more to figure out exactly what it is. It is consistent over the other nine heroes. The 'personally important'/ 'specific example' explanation runs into trouble very quickly.
Though I do have an odd thought related to this.
Dissidia being canon and WOL's crystal being his shard that fills the full with light and restores the world, all the other crystals should have that power.
What the hell is that going to do when those heroes go home? Because they're heading home after their original adventures presumably, and for Terra, that means she's just reintroduced the powers of the gods to her homeworld, assuming the crystal made the trip with her. It certainly didn't with Tidus.
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Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
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- FHS, that cloti bitch
Ryu, thank you for your post. It's much appreciated. And I'm not trying to argue that the crystal IS absolutely 100% the white materia, because really, it's irrelevant. It makes sense to me that it would be representative of it, but it's no skin off my teeth if it's a shiny rock or any other materia mock-up. I think Tidus's sphere is a Jecht Shpere (which, if I recall would be pretty specific to him and his quest) but really each crystal is, as you say, only a representation of the world the warrior comes from. Having said that, I would like to point out that the discussion stemmed from the all out "NO WRONG!" that is stamped down when anyone tries to assert that the crystal COULD be the White Materia. You said yourself--it probably isn't. But, that's not an absolute. So, again, why is it so horribly Clerith for someone to view Cloud's crystal as the WM? Depending on how deep one wants to pick apart each games compilation, story and given the general this is a GAME let's toss in some fanservice, one could logically, and legitimately, argue both sides. Granted, there are many that don't use logic to argue the point, but I did. Could it be a generic mock-up of 'any' materia. Sure. Could it be a WM look-a-like. Sure. Does it change a fucking thing either way? Nope.
There you have my 2 cents.
There you have my 2 cents.
Madame Mayor
Banned
I think if I'm understanding the flow of conversation, Fairheartstrife, the original argument was that it WAS the white materia. As in people were attempting to prove it was for sure. Not just that it could be but probably isn't.
So Que was looking for reasons why this might be the case, and Ryu and Vendel were asking the question of why it would be.
In the end, the simplest answer and whatnot. There's no reason to believe they are anything other than generic energy sources or whatever Ryu was saying, so they aren't. If there's evidence later that they are more specific, then that would stir some interesting conversation.
So Que was looking for reasons why this might be the case, and Ryu and Vendel were asking the question of why it would be.
In the end, the simplest answer and whatnot. There's no reason to believe they are anything other than generic energy sources or whatever Ryu was saying, so they aren't. If there's evidence later that they are more specific, then that would stir some interesting conversation.
Zee
wangxian married
- AKA
- Zee
Squall's crystal is a gunblade with some feathers on it. I guess they just had him holding the feather since that's a callback to his game and is decidedly less retarded than him holding a baby gunblade in his hand.
and tbqh if you're trying to analyze the way the swirls and shadowing are going in the materia you are thinking about it too hard. Materia never looks exactly the same in the games/movies.
Personally I think it makes the most sense for it to be the WM but I don't think it's an absolute. However given that I made the association the second I saw the ending, I'll continue to think it's the white materia until sufficient evidence otherwise.
Also, I've agreed with and throughly enjoyed FHS posts the last two pages.
and tbqh if you're trying to analyze the way the swirls and shadowing are going in the materia you are thinking about it too hard. Materia never looks exactly the same in the games/movies.
Personally I think it makes the most sense for it to be the WM but I don't think it's an absolute. However given that I made the association the second I saw the ending, I'll continue to think it's the white materia until sufficient evidence otherwise.
Also, I've agreed with and throughly enjoyed FHS posts the last two pages.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
The problem there is, that, well-
In other words, that's just their guess. NOTHING thus far says what that crystal is.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It just looks like a green crystal glowing to me. I expect the White Materia to have way more you know... white stripes. I don't know, it's just totally not the colour of the white materia, which is why I'm like "heh? How come?"FHS said:
Graphics are way better than what they used to be, and I expect the white materia to be clearly... have a lot of white when I see it. Not a glowing green which is how they depict materia in AC/C.
That said, I don't really care if it's the white materia or not. I'm just arguing because I don't see it at all.
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
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- FHS, that cloti bitch
Everyone, get the fuck out of the thread. Zee and I must commemorate this event with hot, lesbian sex. Seriously, people.
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Fairheartstrife
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The problem there is, that, well-
In other words, that's just their guess. NOTHING thus far says what that crystal is.
Not to be too big of an asshole, but could you give me the citation where it reveals Cloud's crystal to be materia? Of any kind.
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