New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Tir McDohl]

I'm glad they put so much thought into it. ^^

 

[Dashell]

In fact, right after Cloud receives his crystal, he has to take it to the crystal bathroom. That's how he met Squall.

EDIT:

okay ill stop it's not funny...

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Yes, I saw it. Calm yo tits.

It doesn't look like the WM to me. It looks like green orb reflecting lightand sparkles around it. And I'm not talking size in relation to crystals. In other angles it looks almost totally fucking white. I'm saying the size of the materis Cloud holds = the same as the actual size of materia of FFVII.

I naturally assume that if it looks like green materia (the most common and also the source of magic in Cloud's world), and is the same size...it IS a materia?

As opposed to the totally distinct, tiny ass WM that's the counterpart to the totally distinct huge ass BM? These distinctions aren't just visual in teh game. You can't just attribute them to '97 graphics and inconsistency. They are pointed out in dialogue and guides. Their size is part of what makes them special.

Aeris has a small, insiginificant swirly materia she hides in her hair that no one realizes until the end. To take away both size AND markings and INSTEAD make it the size of regular materia is silly. It's fucking counterproductive. What is the intent if the only way to even see WM anywhere is to squint and freezeframe?

 

[Dashell]

I'm just asking cause I posted a couple pics, are you talking about this one?

or the comparison one?

 

[Mariketsu]

*Is nervous* Hi guys n_n;;. I don't mean to interrupt but, since you guys are talking about materia somewhat, I thought I'd show you this round, clear orb my brother found on the road a few years back (and I later stole from him ):

And just out of curious question, you think Materia would be about that size in RL? I usually call it that just for laughs cuz I'm an FFVII freak , but it actually is a little heavy. I have no idea what it's made out of tho.

Sorry for interrupting tho. I was just curious. *Slowly slides towards the door*

~ Raz

 

[stiles]

dude that is definitely materia size. smash that shit on the floor to claim its power.

 

[Mariketsu]

Lol, I'd say it's roughly materia-size but not exact. Still, makes a nice makeshift one . I have always wanted a replica of sorts of both White and Black Materias, but this small ball is fine, even if it isn't the correct size xD. Sorry for interrupting the topic guys, I'm done now xD.

~ Raz

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The size of materia changes several times in the compilation. There are a few official sources that do make mention of it though.

The first would be Dismantled.

2. グローブ
レザーグローブには、 手の甲の部分にマテリアが装着されている。ティファのパンチを裏拳気味に受けた場合, 硬いマテリアで殴られるわけだから、 考えただけでも痛そうだ,

Glove
Materia is equipped on the back portion of the leather gloves. In a situation where something receives a backhand blow of Tifa's punch, it's struck by hard materia, therefore it's painful just thinking about.

From this it seems like the normal materia you buy/find is the size of a marble. The White Materia would probably be around the same size as something this small would be easy for Aerith to hide in her hair.

The Ultimania Omega art seems to corroborate this as far as the armor goes.

Spoiler: Four Slots

Spoiler: Precious Watch

Spoiler: Mystile

However, when it comes to weapons, the only weapons that are shown with slots are Cloud's and the size of their slots is all over the place.

Spoiler: Buster Sword

Spoiler: Hardedge

Spoiler: Force Stealer

Spoiler: Mithril Saber

Spoiler: Butterfly Edge

Spoiler: Rune Blade

Then, there is materia in Crisis Core which works completely different from the materia in the OG. That could be attributed to game mechanics, or to plot devices, or both depending on who you are. In any case, the materia there is about the size of a small apple.

ACC's materia is the same size as in CC.

Great picture for figuring out the scale of materia in ACC.


DoC then brings back the marble sized materia that is small enough to fit on a keychain.

It doesn't help either that graphics have improved since '97 so the slots in the Buster Sword could just be for decoration and marble-sized materia would disappear amid the CGI of ACC so SE made it bigger.

Personally, I go with marble-sized materia as it's the size that is used the most and because it's small enough to actually fit several (everyone's ultimate weapons hold 8) materia onto a weapon like a glove or a hairclip. However, since the materia keeps changing sizes, I would say that anything from the size of a marble to the size of a small apple should be considered canon.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

That's true.
WM, however, is stated to be THAT particular size in the game and guides. There's the whole it's tiny and in my hair plot point attached to it. As I said, its size & distinct markings make it special. It's no slotable/can't equip. And it hasn't been touched in the compilation (no doubt due to it never being used again).

My point was, Dissidia crystal looks the size of materia used in recent compilation entries, most notably CC and AC. I see it, I think regular material like the shit out of Cloud's box (whcih Kadaj is using I assume).

DoC then brings back the marble sized materia that is small enough to fit on a keychain.

Damn it, dude, I'm trying to forget this shit exists, ok?

EDIT:

so the slots in the Buster Sword could just be for decoration

Since you can put materia in Cloud's weapons, I assume they're not just decorative.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Fucking hell everyone beat me to it...

Edit:

EDIT:
Since you can put materia in Cloud's weapons, I assume they're not just decorative.

I assumed they were functional too, but they could also be how Zack/Cloud attach the sword to their backs, as there's no holster/sheathe and I doubt it's magnetic or some shit.

Edit2: But looking at the other weapons and swords...who the fuck knows. SE's about as consistent as a rorschach.

Edit: Q, stop it. No one else is falling for your awesome snare.

 

[Dashell]

Edit: Q, stop it. No one else is falling for your awesome snare.

That sounds like a challenge

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I assumed they were functional too, but they could also be how Zack/Cloud attach the sword to their backs, as there's no holster/sheathe and I doubt it's magnetic or some shit.

It actually is magnetic. That silver medallion on the back of their uniform is a magnet.



As for the size of materia, I assume -- given that it forms in nature -- it can come out any number of sizes, but is usually somewhere from ping pong ball- to tennis ball-sized.

Of course, the ones that Shin-Ra produces to sell are probably a uniform size.

 

[Dashell]

As for the size of materia, I assume -- given that it forms in nature -- it can come out any number of sizes, but is usually somewhere from ping pong ball- to tennis ball-sized.

Stop trying to find excuses for Square being inconsistent

 

[Ryushikaze]

**coughbullshitcough**

The cutscene in dissidia gives me a 360 view of the thing at regular resolution. It takes me less than a minute to find it in the cutscene viewer.

Not really, just asking you man up or shut up. If that's being an asshat, well... **tips brim**

Considering you're asking me to man up on something I'm not really holding out as definite, it strikes me as contrary for the sake of contrariness.

I said I believed it was the white materia. I did not assert at ANY time that it was 100% factually so.

Which does not make much of a difference.

My point was, is, and will remain, that any statement stating that a person believes Cloud's crystal is the white materia is no less valid than someone seeing only generic materia. You're asking for support of that theory based on the assumption that it's 1. materia to begin with.

Actually, I'm working on everyone's assumption that it's materia more than anything else, same as everyone else is working on assumptions that everyone else's crystals have something to do with their world. In fact, your belief that it's the WM would require evidence that it's materia to begin with if we're getting down to brass tacks. The ONLY reason I mentioned that a citation was needed on Squall's crystal is because we've never gotten a good look at it, and well, Wikis- a quotation of which I was responding to- needed to cite that.

2. Fits into a pre-decided set of parameters YOU set up.

Actually, it wasn't 'pre-decided,' it was what remained after considering what crystals generally are, and having to discard several other ideas, including villian relevance and personal relevance for notable outliers.

My argument would be that 1. CITE IT. Because otherwise it's no more materia than a shiny bauble and saying "if-->then" means dick, considering. 2. Your 'power-source' theory is yours. Not SE's and not cited anywhere. Logical? Sure. Makes sense. Factual. No.

Actually, 'my power source theory' is actually an application of a known fact about crystals as a rule, outlined in the U20, and slapping it onto Dissidia and seeing if it sticks. You are correct that it hasn't been explicitly stated anywhere. But then again, almost nothing has about the crystals. We attempt to deduce things logically. And all of the guesses as to what Squall's crystal are rather logical too. Any of them could be correct. But for a wiki, speculation should be labeled as such.

So you asking anyone to prove their theories or merit based upon your own UNPROVEN theory is, well, dumb. No matter how sensible it may be.

Actually, I'm not asking them to prove their ideas based on mine. I'm just asking them to create a theory which adequately explains all the variables with the fewest outliers or assumptions. Many of the early explanations I thought of failed to account for Firion, for example.

I must have watched a different ACC. It looked fairly good sized. But that could have simply been the perspective.

It's still kept in her hair. And yes, they zoom in on it like mad.

Great. YOU don't think they do. I disagree. Life's great like that.

And the onus is on you to support the idea they do, while we're talking of citations and evidence.

We can't be sure Cloud's is materia (although that makes the most sense). But let's assume that it is, you can't say that it's not the WM. Default claim and all.

Actually, I can. In a practical sense, anyways. The way this is set up, the default claim is always the default winner. For a real world example, if I claim you owe me money, and I cannot prove it, you are still quite correct to conclude that I don't owe you money.

And it could be a silver wing. It could be a camera tripod. It could be a lot of things, and if it's anything other than a power source, your theory is kind of debunked.

I am quite aware of this. That's why I'm actually rather curious what it is.
I mean, ALL our theories are currently predicated on the assumption that the crystals have a meaning of any sort. It may come that we have to conclude they do not.

We must play different games...

Between games, absolutely they change the rules, but they tend to be consistent inside a single work. Even if they're consistently stupid sometimes.

Says you. Show me a source that says the crystals are generic and meaningless and I'll quietly eat humble pie and leave it. Hell, I'll happily say I'm wrong, if I am. It's really not that big of a deal.

While not asking me to prove a negative, this does seem to fall into 'prove me wrong or I'm right' thinking. That they don't have any particularly meaning should always be on the table. Fans have since long ago read far too much into things that simply weren't so.

No one else seems to want to. **shrug** May as well be me.

Well, just remember, it tends to get all over the flinger too.

Yes, I have one. They are. Also, roll up your pant legs, here comes some more shit: **coughbullshitcough**. Nothing is ever more pathetic than someone refusing to admit they may be wrong about something. Dude, really? Q posted a pic, asked you to LOOK at the pic she posted and you loaded Dissidia on your PSP to make some sort of Ryu-tastic analysis? Riiiiiiiiiiight. I believe you. Sure.

Q's pic doesn't rotate. The one in the cutscene does. All I wanted was to look at it from more than one angle, and at actual resolution.

That you walked into, and were neatly snared. Watching you flop around and flail trying to deny being caught is kind of amusing, however. Carry on.

Well, as you have repeated several times now, you believe that, and that's enough for you.

**tips asshat** As amusing as it is, I'm finding the topic rather tedious. Anything else you can think of that we may be able to insult/banter about? Otherwise, I'll call: Good game! and leave the dead horse alone now.

We could actually discuss Squall's crystal a bit.

Which sounds worse, being in denial, or not knowing what "this" means? You seem to gave the grasp of "that", so I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I ignored her picture in favor of the prime source since I compose these things in .txt half the time. Such a scandal.

I'm far more interested in what little discussion there's been in here on what Squall's crystal is supposed to be a representation of than this back and forth about Cloud's. I really wish we knew for sure what it is, and FHS's image of that Sephiroth wing necklace is about as close as we've gotten to something useful.

Especially since it would give us a full set of 10 to try and figure out what it was.

On the matter of the Dissidia crystals being general representations of the world/sources of power in that world vs. things that are representative of something meaningful to each warrior of Cosmos, I think that whatever stance one takes, it should be consistent across the ten warriors. That is to say, if you think it's more valuable from a storytelling perspective that Terra's crystal represents Maduin, you would also explain the personal significance of Firion's crystal, and so on.

Firion's crystal actually screwed the pooch for me when I was trying to examine personal and villian significance for the crystals. While others can't be associated with one and can be at a stretch associated with the other, his fits neither, having no personal relevance and no link to Mateus either.

On the other hand, if you think they're generic, you'll take care to avoid any personal associations whatsoever when describing them.

Obviously, Squall's unidentifiable crystal throws a bit of a wrench into this either way, as you pretty much have to decide what you personally think it's supposed to be (i.e. you think it's supposed to be personal, so it's a gunblade or feather; or you think it's supposed to be generic, so it's a witch wing). Granted, you can choose to exclude Squall's crystal from the analysis altogether (which is what I personally have done for the past couple of years), but that almost feels like cheating.

Well, discarding an outlier isn't cheating, but yes, it's best to try and account for as much of the data as possible.

Those are my feelings on all that anyway.

In any event, I've seen this notion danced around a bit during this discussion, but I just want to plainly throw out there that it's entirely possible that even if the crystal Cloud received is supposed to be representative of the White Materia -- not that there's any means of determining whether it's supposed to look more like a generic green materia than a specific one (e.g. the White Materia); just want to reiterate that to everyone: we have no way of knowing for sure -- it's still meant to be representative of the world he comes from rather than something deeply personal to him.

One can have it both ways. Just saying.

True. It still makes me wonder why he gets a particular crystal and folks like Cecil and Bartz would be rocking something generic, pfeh.

I'm wondering did he also load his FFVII game as well to make the comparison? Or just Dissidia?

7 doesn't have a cutscene viewer. I found the death sequence online.

So... wait... wait... let me get this straight. Instead of looking at the image I posted for troll purposes your convenience, you got up from your seat (possibly, I dunno where your PSP is), loaded up your game, and took however long it took to Cloud's crystal, and then made a list of things that were different between that and the white materia from the original game? So, did you load up the original FFVII game as well to check?

I reached to my left, flicked a switch, hit circle, down down, x, right a few times, and x. For my herculean efforts, I got a full 3d view of a spheroid object at its original resolution.

Do you do this for all things or just for Dissidia crystals? If I were to have said, Ryu look at this and tell me what kind of flowers these are:

Would you look at the picture or would you load up your Crisis Core game to find out?

Me thinks you're being rather silly

Aerith's flowers aren't featured in a nifty cutscene where they rotate for my amusement. So no, I wouldn't. If I did want to examine that scene in detail, such as seeing if there was a different angle, I'd probably look online for the cutscene since that would be faster.
Dissidia just happens to have a cutscene viewer.

You know those are unofficial renders right?

Those are actually the Dissidia chapter selection icons. So they are official. Though not renders.

Fucking hell everyone beat me to it...

Edit:

I assumed they were functional too, but they could also be how Zack/Cloud attach the sword to their backs, as there's no holster/sheathe and I doubt it's magnetic or some shit.

IIRC, the metal plate that rests on his back is a magnetic sheathe of some sort.

 

[Dashell]

I reached to my left, flicked a switch, hit circle, down down, x, right a few times, and x. For my herculean efforts, I got a full 3d view of a spheroid object at its original resolution.
.....
Aerith's flowers aren't featured in a nifty cutscene where they rotate for my amusement. So no, I wouldn't. If I did want to examine that scene in detail, such as seeing if there was a different angle, I'd probably look online for the cutscene since that would be faster.
Dissidia just happens to have a cutscene viewer.

Okay so basically you looked up the Dissidia cutscene where the crystal rotates on your PSP and Aerith's death from FFVII on youtube. Just seems like a long way to do it but all of that aside, the White Materia does look a lot different in AC/C than it does in OGC. The swirls aren't as prominent and the coloring is different.

Also it rotates? Someone should make a gif of the crystal rotating.

Those are actually the Dissidia chapter selection icons. So they are official. Though not renders.

err... yeah that's what I meant

 

[Splintered]

Just admit it was an awesome troll. 9/10 Quex.

I didn't know you were that handy with photoshop.

 

[Dashell]

hehehe, i don't feel good just cause you say good things about me

what would have made it 10/10 BTW?

 

[Splintered]

A troll that would have degenerated the LTD into mass chaos, internets ablaze, eventually leading to all the pairing fans to commit mass suicide in the sheer grief of whatever happened.

Or something that involves cake.

 

[Dashell]

Uhm... think I'll stick with the cake one. I don't need a bunch of angry relatives and what not looking for me cause I caused their whoever to commit suicide.

 

[Splintered]

Uhm... think I'll stick with the cake one. I don't need a bunch of angry relatives and what not looking for me cause I caused their whoever to commit suicide.

You get nowhere in life by settling for the easy road Quex.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

It actually is magnetic. That silver medallion on the back of their uniform is a magnet.

Well, whaddya know. Learned something new. For my own piece of mind could you give me the source on that, please? Thanks. Only because the logic is kinda flawed. Wouldn't you know, earrings, phones, OTHER metal objects react to a magnet that strong? Just curious.

Edit: @ Ryu: I'm all for discussing Squall's crystal, though this is hardly the place. Is there a thread on the crystals already? Forgive me, I've been kind of out of the loop for a bit. If not, we should totally make one, leaving the WM vs anything else aside in regards to Cloud's crystal. It really is an rather redundant topic. Apparently EVERYONE thinks it COULD be materia of some type but no one can for 100% state for a fact what materia it represents. If in fact it is meant to only be a 'magic materia' representative, then it's player imposed WHAT it is, and still could easily be identified as WM or Ice ice baby or a glowing green blob of nameless lifestream. Also... **sniff** I'm not at all mired in shit, yet. Feel free to fling it, if you want, but chances are my FF forum reputation doesn't mean nearly as much to me as yours does to you. You totally fell for Q's photoshop, dude. But still, watching the wiggle is fun. I never would have pegged you for the type not to just be like: "aww, man, got me. Moving on..." But, hey, you say you youtubed FFVII death scene and Dissidia cutscenes in response to Q asking you to look at a picture she posted...and let's be clear, that's what she asked. She did not ask you in general the differences, she posted a pic and asked you SPECIFICALLY does 'this' look like 'that' or not. Then hey, man, who am I to say that's not exactly what you did. That just makes you look more retarded than falling for a picture, though. Just saying.

But seriously, I won't pick on you anymore. In truth I'm probably gonna vanish again. I'll try not to be away so long though. Take it easy, guys. ((hugs))

 

[Ryushikaze]

Okay so basically you looked up the Dissidia cutscene where the crystal rotates on your PSP and Aerith's death from FFVII on youtube. Just seems like a long way to do it but all of that aside, the White Materia does look a lot different in AC/C than it does in OGC. The swirls aren't as prominent and the coloring is different.

They're 3D Spheres. Size, color, and patterning are the way to tell them apart. I wanted to see if the Patterning could be the same on the Dissidia crystal as the OG WM, and a single shot of both isn't enough for that. I should go examine the AC/C one again too, though IIRC, isn't it even darker than the regular materia now? Like a very deep, rich green?

Also it rotates? Someone should make a gif of the crystal rotating.

Yes. It rotates.

err... yeah that's what I meant

And being the nice person I am, I'll even take you at your word on that one.

You get nowhere in life by settling for the easy road Quex.

On the other hand, Quex has just comitted herself to mass slaughter rather than causing a mass suicide. She's taken the cake option after all.
For the record, I do not intend to assume the party escort submission position.

Well, whaddya know. Learned something new. For my own piece of mind, could you give me the source on that, please? Thanks. Only because the logic is kinda flawed. Wouldn't you know, earrings, phones, OTHER metal objects react to a magnet that strong? Just curious.

Only if they got close enough. Inverse square law and all that. A Magnet capable of holding 20 pounds securely (and that's really overselling Buster) doesn't hold that field for particularly far.

 

[Dana Scully]

Only if they got close enough. Inverse square law and all that. A Magnet capable of holding 20 pounds securely (and that's really overselling Buster) doesn't hold that field for particularly far.

Sorry to pick up on this of all things, but I'm pretty sure Buster easily ways over 20 pounds.

I mean, here's a video of a full-size BS recreation, and the guys pegged the weight at 54lbs.

Spoiler

Of course, one could argue that the FF7 universe has some fancypants super-strong, super-durable, super-light metal and the buster sword really weighs as much as a pair of panties. But yeah.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Sorry to pick up on this of all things, but I'm pretty sure Buster easily ways over 20 pounds.

I mean, here's a video of a full-size BS recreation, and the guys pegged the weight at 54lbs.

Spoiler

Of course, one could argue that the FF7 universe has some fancypants super-strong, super-durable, super-light metal and the buster sword really weighs as much as a pair of panties. But yeah.

I'm pretty sure that's oversized, actually. And my estimate for Buster is more or less assuming it's not quite the same amount of metal as 3 Zweihanders, which were typically a little under 7 pounds. Of course, my math could be well wrong, but the sword itself is only about 5ft, with about a 6-7" handle.
And yes, I'm rather certain it's made of a fantasy metal. It doesn't deform when struck by bullets. That's fantasy metal.

Addendum: Yeah, their handle alone is easily two feet long, since he's resting it on his hip and the blade begins at his shoulder.

 

[Dana Scully]

I'm pretty sure that's oversized, actually. And my estimate for Buster is more or less assuming it's not quite the same amount of metal as 3 Zweihanders, which were typically a little under 7 pounds. Of course, my math could be well wrong, but the sword itself is only about 5ft, with about a 6-7" handle.

While I agree with you on the width being ~3 Zweihanders and the length, I imagine the weight of the BS really comes with how thick it is. Especially since it only has a single edge.

And yes, I'm rather certain it's made of a fantasy metal. It doesn't deform when struck by bullets. That's fantasy metal.

I guess we finally know what Cloud's sunglasses are made of.

Addendum: Yeah, their handle alone is easily two feet long, since he's resting it on his hip and the blade begins at his shoulder.

Agreed, it's longer than it should be, though they may have done it that way to give themselves the necessary leverage to hold the thing steady.