New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Winter]

Also, even if there are a few people being assholes, whatever counts as being an asshole by new Cleris standards....WHY IS ALL OF TLS RESPONSIBLE? Isn't this the same as fucking thinking all Cleris = same. Your hypocrisy ppl, I can't even.

Join if you want to. Don't if you don't want to. It's really that simple.

okay just for reference: you're being an asshole right now. There you go, there's your standards.

All of TLS is responsible because it's on the FRONT PAGE and not a lot of people are gonna go through the forums to see if they're turned off by the attitudes they see on the front page. It's not generalization, they aren't actively saying you're bad people (okay some are but I don't associate with those crazy fucks), it's just a general avoidance of this place.

It's not hypocrisy because we aren't generalizing you as shippers or even members of the forums. We aren't judging you at all. They just don't want to be around you based on what little they've seen, it's not a fucking grudge jesus christ. You have an US VS THEM mentality that rivals the worst posters on CxA, you have no idea.


The reason why I care if they join is because I LIKE these people and I LIKE TLS and god forbid if I'd like to see more discussion around here.

but whatever man, you're right! Let's all just keep being smug dicks and who cares what our image is like because we are SO GREAT!

i mean really is that the kind of attitude we want to project? because I for one find it extremely unappealing. I'm not saying we have to be sunshine and rainbows, I'm just saying being less douchey about simple shit like shipping would make the forum as a whole look better. It's not like we're even being witty or fun sometimes, sometimes it's just smug dickery and that's just even entertaining for newcomers.... or anyone who isn't a diehard C/T shipper really.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think OWD's response to your post, Drake, is that it suggests that if someone writes a Cloti article someone must write a Clerith article before he posts it. A fairness doctrine. Which there is no reason for us to do.

I take shots at FF8 in my final dungeon retrospective, do we have to post an article about 8's superiority to compensate? Or is it just because FF8 and 7 fans don't have names dividing them into different groups of people that that doesn't really matter.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Maybe I am crazy but I only remember the one that I love page, the analysis of said page and uh. That was it.

Offers to have someone make a clerith essay but i never recall one being posted.

Also the post in question was not by tres but ryu. Really guys, they type in entirely different manners. The quotes posted sound way more like ryu than tres

Sorry, I think I'm the crazy one. But I distinctly remember an essay that's responding to Tres' that is pro-Clerith linked in one of the comments. I said it was the front page because (I think) I remember it on a site with the same theme are TLS. Now I'm not too sure. But I did read it. D: I remember.

Just as well, I would like to complain about the search function in the front page. It doesn't bring me where I want to be. ._.

As for how they type... I really wouldn't know. Everyone seems to type the same to me.

 

[I Am Not Me]

HOW ARE YOU ALL TYPING SO FAST FFS

 

[OneWingedDemon]

It's not what I was saying, Drake. What I was objecting to was this "well you have a pro-Cloti article and so let's add a pro-Cleris one to be fair" idea. I was under the impression Tres' in-depth analysis made it to the front precisely because it was a thorough analysis of the story and it was factual.

To add something "pro-Cleris" just to balance things out is dishonest. The same applies for really anything. It's like adding a piece on Rinoa=Ulti just so you don't alienate the ones who believed it. I thought TLS wasn't about internet cookies? Maybe I'm wrong though

EDIT: beaten by Force.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I think OWD's response to your post, Drake, is that it suggests that if someone writes a Cloti article someone must write a Clerith article before he posts it. A fairness doctrine. Which there is no reason for us to do.

Agreed, there's no need for it. Again, it isn't the content itself, it's the tone that was taken. "That ends it, even if you don't want to believe it." This is simply an arrogant thing to say, it isn't very far off from "We're right, too bad if you can't accept that."

 

[ForceStealer]

But even that specifically mentions that its Tres' words. (or whoever, I kinda lost who we're talking about) It's an essay, not a news bulletin. We don't promise to be a safe-haven for the disenfranchised shippers. We promise to be a site about FF7. And that was an essay about some of the finer details in FF7's now expanded plot relating to Cloud's affections. It was a stylized way to say that Cloti is canon as a conclusion to the essay. And frankly, it's one of our most viewed articles, so if anything it increased traffic. At least to the front page.

I agree with you that OWD's comment that we can be however mean we want because we're not making anyone join is shortsighted. But at the same time, if someone really isn't going to join because of that one sentence, I can't say that I would particularly miss that person.

 

[Dana Scully]

It's not what I was saying, Drake. What I was objecting to was this "well you have a pro-Cloti article and so let's add a pro-Cleris one to be fair" idea. I was under the impression Tres' in-depth analysis made it to the front precisely because it was a thorough analysis of the story and it was factual.

To add something "pro-Cleris" just to balance things out is dishonest. The same applies for really anything. It's like adding a piece on Rinoa=Ulti just so you don't alienate the ones who believed it. I thought TLS wasn't about internet cookies? Maybe I'm wrong though

EDIT: beaten by Force.

Question: how come an essay about Clerith is automatically 'dishonest'?

 

[I Am Not Me]

Okay, I give up. I can't catch up and I don't know what we're talking about now.

But I'm still looking for that essay. brb

 

[DrakeClawfang]

if someone really isn't going to join because of that one sentence, I can't say that I would particularly miss that person.

That essay is just an example. You go digging through the old LTD threads you'll find pages and pages of the same type of attitudes.

 

[ForceStealer]

Question: how come an essay about Clerith is automatically 'dishonest'?

I assume he means if we were to post and completely equivalent essay - that is, one that shows that the canon, and new canon, prove Cloud loves Aerith, would be dishonest because it doesn't. I guess.

@Drake, well if someone does that they're determined not to like us
Kidding, I know what you are saying, but honestly we can't help that the majority of people here are Cloti. (Dammit I hate even using those godforsaken terms.) People could be less cuntish, certainly, I already addressed that. But if that's what the majority of the people here believe, the threads are going to have an inherent bias that we can't get rid of. But a mention of Cloti's canonicity is not automatically "rubbing it in."
In the politics threads, the site has an inherent left-wing bias. This is because more people here are of that persuasion than right-wing. No matter how polite we manage to be, the bias will be there.

Again, the dickishness could stand to be reigned in, and I hope to help see to that; I'm responding to specific points that you're making here.

 

[Winter]

who even asked for a clerith essay? y'all lost me on this one

 

[ForceStealer]

No one. But all the talk of 'neutrality' implied it.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

FALSE. I think I was going off something I AM Not Me said. CBA to check.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Kidding, I know what you are saying, but honestly we can't help that the majority of people here are Cloti. (Dammit I hate even using those godforsaken terms.) People could be less cuntish, certainly, I already addressed that. But if that's what the majority of the people here believe, the threads are going to have an inherent bias that we can't get rid of. In the politics threads, the site has an inherent left-wing bias. This is because more people here are of that persuasion than right-wing. No matter how polite we manage to be, the bias will be there.

Again, the dickishness could stand to be reigned in, and I hope to help see to that; I'm responding to specific points that you're making here.

I agree, if it's how you guys are then it's how you guys are and it's how the forum is. If you guys really want to be the pro-Cloti Clerith-bashing type of site then I won't oppose such, it's your forum and you guys can run it how you like. But as the debating demonstrates obviously some are unhappy with the image or don't realize they have that image, and thus it comes back to the members giving the forum that image in the first place.

 

[I Am Not Me]

That was me, because I dreamed there was a Clerith essay on the front page in response to Tres' one. Sorry everyone, my fault.

I can't find it. Now I'm not sure about what I've seen.

Maybe it's linked in the LTD is over article... which I'm not gonna browse the comments through. D:

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I wasn't blaming you, bb. I was just resonding to the idea that one was needed to prove fairness.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

No one. But all the talk of 'neutrality' implied it.

I think neutrality would imply presenting the arguments for canon without rubbing it in people's faces that they either need to learn to accept it as canon or gtfo. Because certainly it makes Cloti's feel good about their pairing and stuff but that doesn't mean I'm messaging every Clerith on my buddy list and being like 'BOOYAH SUCK IT' and that's what some of the quotes in the essay presents the info as.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Also the post in question was not by tres but ryu. Really guys, they type in entirely different manners. The quotes posted sound way more like ryu than tres

This quote:

One last thing, before I go. I have one thought, from Tres himself, that he asked me to relate to everyone. That thought is, “All that’s left to say is: Abandon ‘ship!” Wise words indeed, since that ship has been undeniably sunk, if you’ll pardon the pun, by canon.

Is Ryu's. D: Which one were we really talking about? This was quoted by Drake earlier.

 

[ForceStealer]

I agree, if it's how you guys are then it's how you guys are and it's how the forum is. If you guys really want to be the pro-Cloti Clerith-bashing type of site then I won't oppose such, it's your forum and you guys can run it how you like.

These are the posts I mean are implying that for everything said Cloti something equivalent must be said Clerith. Or that the mere mention of Cloti's canonicity (or even something unrelated, some joke about Cloud and Tifa doing it, for instance) is INHERENTLY Clerith-bashing.
I said the site will always have a bias because there are more Clotis, period. EVERY FF7 site is going to have this inherent bias. Me acknowledging that fact does not mean I want to be "the pro-Cloti Clerith-bashing type of site."

We do HAVE a Clerith club, after all.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

We do HAVE a Clerith club, after all.

"I'm not racist, one of my best friends is black!"

 

[ForceStealer]

All right, fine. Clearly nothing is going to appease you on this point so I'm just gonna drop it.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

We do HAVE a Clerith club, after all.

But if you say in there 'well I believe Clerith is canon' Mako or Vendel will pop in there and be like COME AT ME BRO before you can itch your nose.

Basically you can post pretty pictures but that's basically the only thing you can do. The main thing I'm grateful for is that Ryu has stopped his silly picture snarking in there.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

"I'm not racist, one of my best friends is black!"

 

[Winter]

dude I don't even give a shit if we talk about clerith or not or if you like it or want to write 200 essays about cloud's penis going into tifa's vagina

my point here is that I feel our attitude towards shipping is ridiculous sometimes and the smug behavior displayed by some members here really turn off even people who aren't interested in shipping.

said behavior is obnoxious and I feel like you guys SHOULD care what kind of image you have since there's a lot of people who would probably join up if you'd let up on this whole "us vs. you we're so right you're wrong" thing. It just looks bad as a whole. Look at how obnoxious EurAsianGirl was. Do you realize that sometimes in this thread you guys come off like that too? It's really unappealing.

this is all I am saying I don't give two shits whether things are fair and balanced or whatever you guys are talking about