New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Fairheartstrife]

I'm not sure this forum is any more hostile to Cleriths than it is anyone else. TLS can be a hostile environment over just about anything. Vendel is certainly hostile to them, but consider how hostile everyone is to him. And Username, and anyone at any given minute.

Which is why I found the bawwwing over the signature a bit hypocritical. And although I would agree that TLS itself is not aggressive towards Cleriths, THIS thread most certainly is.

 

[looneymoon]

You are the only one makigna big deal out of this.

uhm there were a bunch of thanks and then this:

Clearly just one person making a big fucking deal

 

[Splintered]

We have this debate once every one or two months. You'd think by now people would understand why people get annoyed about all of this.

 

[Winter]

wow OWD it's like you really don't even read my posts!

Cleriths are not a CHUNK of the fandom. Especially the ones who still believe it to have any roots in canon. The only ones I've seen butthurt, are the ones who've been active in the debates and still are (behind walls). Most of the criticism of TLS has been with regards to how they are obviously CLOTI. From thsoe same Clerises. LOL. As opposed to just using their braincells. Need work on your propaganda.

Uhh, yes they are. I can name at least five people off the top of my head who are still active in this fandom and don't post on these forums. And not because they feel "victimized" (you are using this word, not me), it's because people come around here and start acting like it's fucking 1998 and we're in some flaming important shipwar.

Nobody that I knew in the fandom really had any interest in debating at all, they were just looking for cool places to hang out. TLS had this giant fucking sign saying FIGHT ME FIGHT ME PROVE ME WRONG which I think is SO DUMB because some people aren't interested in that sort of thing at all and it misrepresents people like Aki and Looneymoon who can talk about shipping without being overdramatic twats.

I had to beg my friend Pandora to join because you guys really built up a bad name for yourselves. It has nothing to do with what she ships, jesus christ. Pandora doesn't even want to talk about god damn shipping, she wants to be a part of a friendly FFVII community. you guys sometimes seem to advertise to CxA "we're assholes man it feels good to be right!!" and it doesn't matter if you are right, it makes you look like a douchebag. That article you mentioned on the first page is the PERFECT example of that.

Nobody wants to be around that. It's about attitude, not shipping.

You are the only one makigna big deal out of this.

Obviously I'm not since a mod was just in the thread talking about it as well? seriously what I'm not even making a big deal out of this, I wasn't even the first person to bring it up jesus christ

They can come. No on gives a shit if they're Cleris or Clukki. The registration isn't barred. There are no Clerith-only fountains. FFS.

you're missing the point entirely here. Like I said, attitude etc.


while I understand that some of the people at CxA have a ridiculous them vs. us complex you guys can't seem to grasp that not all of them are like that, and your attitudes combined with some of the natural shipper crazy that breeds at CxA makes TLS look really bad.

 

[Dashell]

while I understand that some of the people at CxA have a ridiculous them vs. us complex you guys can't seem to grasp that not all of them are like that, and your attitudes combined with some of the natural shipper crazy that breeds at CxA makes TLS look really bad.

word

I also want to add I hate how some people accuse the other side of having a "Them vs us" complex when they have the same exact problem


EDIT
NOBODY SAW THAT RIGHT? THAT MISTAKE I DIDN'T MAKE? ... OKAY GOOD

 

[Ⓐaron]

You don't say? Thanks for clearing that up, because surely I didn't know. Also, for the record 'retard' means to impede, to slow, to delay. There are those, of course, that only view the word as it's insult to intelligence, but whatever. And, yes, being a shipper and being obsessive is fantarded. It delays the ability to step back and be objective.

And if people wanna get butthurt offended on the internet by 'fantard' then I say: "Bwuahahahahahahaha, boy, is the real world gonna be a bitch for you."


Are we seriously policing signatures and modding conversations to avoid hurt feelings?

I don't think you understand. "Fantard" is a direct insult. Direct insults are against the rules, and when they are tolerated from some people but not others it makes the community look bad to the rest of the internet. That's basically what was happening for a long time, and it needs to stop.

The fact that "retard" has alternate definitions is irrelevant to the fact that the primary one in use today is insulting. And being called "slow" is also considered an insult, so the secondary one is not even benign.

So, let me get this straight...Eurasianchick (or whatever) gets pages of wank about her signature over the use of 'fantard' but THIS here is perfectly acceptable? Not to mention the mocking of everything from her intelligence to the red font in her signature.

Telling someone to stfu is borderline, but it is not a direct insult. I have already clarified what kinds of posting are unacceptable. If you wish to broaden the definition, feel free to speak up about it, but it sounds like you're actually offended that it's as broad as it is, so you complaining about a stfu post seems a bit strange. And when people have been mocking her intelligence, they've been told to stop as well, unless there are cases we've missed. I have gone back through the past several pages of this thread and have been unable to find a single example of anyone insulting Eurasiangirl's intelligence, or directly insulting her at all. If you are referring to the first Inuyasha thread, people insulting her is exactly what my first clarification of the rules was in response to. If there's another of a case where people who have posted direct insults haven't been specifically told to stop, it must have occurred in a thread I haven't been reading; report the posts and we'll respond to them. However, if they were more than about a week old, it's probably because the rules basically weren't being enforced.

And again, it's not just "fantard" in Eurasiangirl's sig that people have been objecting to, it's also the huge and unnecessary generalisations in it.

Read the fucking post. She's saying nothing that Ryu, Vendel, and a handful of other people haven't already said (myself included); that Clerith is NOT canon, shipping it is fine, ignoring the facts in favor of Clerith is Canon is dumb. You don't like her? Don't agree with her Daddy/son ew-fest incest? Fine, whatever. But stop with the bullshit superiority. We have all called names and made ridiculous asses of ourselves over fictional characters.

She also repeatedly called members of the community "idiots" and "delusional" and "retarded" and a bunch of other similar things, which, if you would actually care to read our posts, is what people have been objecting to. I know plenty of other people have called them those things in the past as well. It was against the rules then as well, but no one cared enough to enforce them. However, going back and retroactively enforcing the rules on posts that are months or years old seems beyond pointless.

Wanna go back through some posts? Wanna go back 20 pages and have Ryu call me an asshat and me call him a whiny bitch? Wanna grab every single one of Vendels posts? Or how about Drakes open confession to actively hating Vennie?

No. I'm not going to go back and retroactively enforce rules, because people didn't have any warning that they were going to be enforced when they made those posts. Now they do.

I'm not sure this forum is any more hostile to Cleriths than it is anyone else. TLS can be a hostile environment over just about anything. Vendel is certainly hostile to them, but consider how hostile everyone is to him. And Username, and anyone at any given minute.

This is in large part because the rules basically weren't being enforced for a long time. However, we've had numerous complaints from our own member base about how hostile the place and especially this thread is. So it seems like we ought to start enforcing them.

I can name at least five people off the top of my head who are still active in this fandom and don't post on these forums. And not because they feel "victimized" (you are using this word, not me), it's because people come around here and start acting like it's fucking 1998 and we're in some flaming important shipwar.

Nobody that I knew in the fandom really had any interest in debating at all, they were just looking for cool places to hang out. TLS had this giant fucking sign saying FIGHT ME FIGHT ME PROVE ME WRONG which I think is SO DUMB because some people aren't interested in that sort of thing at all and it misrepresents people like Aki and Looneymoon who can talk about shipping without being overdramatic twats.

I had to beg my friend Pandora to join because you guys really built up a bad name for yourselves. It has nothing to do with what she ships, jesus christ. Pandora doesn't even want to talk about god damn shipping, she wants to be a part of a friendly FFVII community. you guys sometimes seem to advertise to CxA "we're assholes man it feels good to be right!!" and it doesn't matter if you are right, it makes you look like a douchebag. That article you mentioned on the first page is the PERFECT example of that.

Nobody wants to be around that. It's about attitude, not shipping.

I wish I could double-thank this post. I really don't even care about the LTD anymore. If people don't want to debate it, whatever. They shouldn't feel any pressure to. However, insofar as rules are being broken over it, it is the staff's business.

 

[ForceStealer]

In short,

 

[Ryushikaze]

This is in large part because the rules basically weren't being enforced for a long time. However, we've had numerous complaints from our own member base about how hostile the place and especially this thread is. So it seems like we ought to start enforcing them.

And many of those same members are equally hostile towards other members of the forum. If they want to complain about people being dicks, that's fine, but they should also make sure they're not being dicks themselves.

 

[Ⓐaron]

And many of those same members are equally hostile towards other members of the forum. If they want to complain about people being dicks, that's fine, but they should also make sure they're not being dicks themselves.

When they themselves break the rules, we can tell them off for doing so. I haven't seen them breaking the rules since the complaints were made.

To clarify, as far as I'm aware the rules don't preclude being somewhat hostile; they draw the line at direct insults. But I tried to find a copy and was unable to; apparently they're not in the registration agreement. Maybe people will think some other criterion for enforcing rules should be used; that's something that should be discussed if so. But from what I remember, the last time I actually saw a copy of the rules they precluded direct insults. Of course, that was a couple of years ago.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I don't think you understand. "Fantard" is a direct insult.

You said YOURSELF that her signature was broad generalization. How is it a direct insult and a generalization simultaneously? Who is she insulting directly? Spiritsex shipping Cleriths? Please.

Direct insults are against the rules, and when they are tolerated from some people but not others it makes the community look bad to the rest of the internet. That's basically what was happening for a long time, and it needs to stop.

Great. Enforce it. Wouldn't want the rest of the internet to think a forum dedicated to a 1997 game was anything other than top-knotch and non-fantarded. **slow clap**

The fact that "retard" has alternate definitions

The definition of retard is to delay, to slow, to hinder. That is not a fucking alternate. Yes, it is used to describe someone of diminished mental capacity, but it is not the sole, singular definition.

Telling someone to stfu is borderline, but it is not a direct insult.

Fine. Then shut the fuck up.

I have already clarified what kinds of posting are unacceptable.

Yes, apparently generalizations are now direct insults. Got it.

If you wish to broaden the definition, feel free to speak up about it, but it sounds like you're actually offended that it's as broad as it is, so you complaining about a stfu post seems a bit strange.

Are you reading my posts? It has nothing to do with it being broadened and everything to do with its lack of DIRECTNESS. Q specifically told a member to SHUT THE FUCK UP, and according to you, that's "borderline", where someone wearing a signature that broadly generalized a shipping fandom is somehow against policy because it may insult someone, somewhere. I'm sorry, but that shit is retarded. (<--note for clarity before panties get riled, as per your own recommendations my insult is to the opinion and the policy and not any particular individual )

And when people have been mocking her intelligence, they've been told to stop as well, unless there are cases we've missed. I certainly haven't seen any; there was some wank in the first Inuyasha thread that was the direct cause of me clarifying what counted as flaming and what did not. If there are any cases where people who have posted direct insults haven't been specifically told to stop, report the posts and we'll respond to them. However, if they were more than about a week old, it's probably because the rules basically weren't being enforced. I have gone back through the past several pages of this thread and have been unable to find a single example of anyone insulting Eurasiangirl's intelligence, or directly insulting her at all.

Must we call her a Cloti? I mean I hate to be associated with a word she's associated with

Oh, and from you, in regards to what to label Eurasiangirl:

What was the word that was used to describe insane Clotis? Clitos?
edit: yes, apparently

and Q's reply:

Dunno, but that made me think of the word "cheetos" and made me hungry.

EDIT
okay we'll call her that then.

I'm calling bullshit, Aaron. Right now. Either that or you're a fucking hypocrit and is using 'admin' authority to make your opinion validated when in reality it's the same pedantic shit you're rallying against.

One day ago, Drake about what to ship with Vendel:

Hm....well, a woodchipper, an angle-grinder, a rotary saw, a riding mower...

Hmmmm...that seems awfully aggressive and specific, but maybe he's just kidding....

I find it cute that people take my barbs so lighthearted when I well and truly hate him.

Maybe not. And, huh...no admin or mod citation. Considering this all takes place in this thread AFTER you declared 'enforcement' that's a bit odd, no?

If you are referring to the first Inuyasha thread, people insulting her is exactly what my first clarification of the rules was in response to. If there's another example, it must have occurred in a thread I haven't been reading.

See above.

She also repeatedly called members of the community "idiots" and "delusional" and "retarded" and a bunch of other similar things, which, if you would actually care to read our posts, is what people have been objecting to.

The objection seems to stem from the fact that she's targeting a group that TLS ALREADY targets.

I know plenty of other people have called them those things in the past as well. It was against the rules then as well, but no one cared enough to enforce them. However, going back and retroactively enforcing the rules on posts that are months or years old seems beyond pointless.

Or, you know, 24 hours.

No. I'm not going to go back and retroactively enforce rules, because people didn't have any warning that they were going to be enforced when they made those posts. Now they do.

Sure.

This is in large part because the rules basically weren't being enforced for a long time. However, we've had numerous complaints from our own member base about how hostile the place and especially this thread is. So it seems like we ought to start enforcing them.

Then fucking enforce them, but be fair and reasonable about it.

However, insofar as rules are being broken over it, it is the staff's business.

Unless, of course it's the staff or a chum doing it, then it's just 'borderline'.

Whatever.

 

[ForceStealer]

To clarify, as far as I'm aware the rules don't preclude being somewhat hostile; they draw the line at direct insults. But I tried to find a copy and was unable to; apparently they're not in the registration agreement. Maybe people will think some other criterion for enforcing rules should be used; that's something that should be discussed if so. But from what I remember, the last time I actually saw a copy of the rules they precluded direct insults. Of course, that was a couple of years ago.

Are you referring to the Forum Rules? The wording there is to "Be civil."

Also, protip. Using "whatever" after a tl;dr post is kinda meaningless.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Also, protip. Using "whatever" after a tl;dr post is kinda meaningless.

whatever

 

[ForceStealer]

There you go.

 

[Ⓐaron]

You said YOURSELF that her signature was broad generalization. How is it a direct insult and a generalization simultaneously? Who is she insulting directly? Spiritsex shipping Cleriths? Please.

It is both. I already explained why it is a generalisation: "Support Clerith, because" - implying that it is the sole reason to support Clerith.

The definition of retard is to delay, to slow, to hinder. That is not a fucking alternate. Yes, it is used to describe someone of diminished mental capacity, but it is not the sole, singular definition.

Quit splitting hairs. You know as well as I that "mentally retarded" is the definition everyone recognises when the word "retard" is used, and I already explained that people also consider "slow" to be insulting. Besides, "to slow" is a definition of "retard" as a verb. "Retard" is clearly not being used as a verb in the word "fantard", which is a noun.

Then shut the fuck up.

No.

Yes, apparently generalizations are now direct insults. Got it.

Nice straw man. I never said that.

Are you reading my posts? It has nothing to do with it being broadened and everything to do with its lack of DIRECTNESS. Q specifically told a member to SHUT THE FUCK UP, and according to you, that's "borderline", where someone wearing a signature that broadly generalized a shipping fandom is somehow against policy because it may insult someone, somewhere. I'm sorry, but that shit is retarded. (<--note for clarity before panties get riled, as per your own recommendations my insult is to the opinion and the policy and not any particular individual )

I did not say that broad generalisations were against policy. She can leave her generalisations up in her sig if she wants to. I am asking her as a member to change it, because the generalisations make us look bad, but they are not against forum rules. However, the word "fantard" being applied to shippers is against forum policy, and does need to go.

Oh, and from you, in regards to what to label Eurasiangirl:

and Q's reply:

I'm calling bullshit, Aaron. Right now. Either that or you're a fucking hypocrit and is using 'admin' authority to make your opinion validated when in reality it's the same pedantic shit you're rallying against.

"Clito" is insulting in the same way as "retarded"? Granted, I should have been more specific and used the phrase "Clotis with insane views on the LTD." That was my mistake, and I apologise for it. However, people use the word "pinker" all the time and no one ever bats an eye. So complaining about the use of the word "Clito" is awfully fucking hypocritical.

One day ago, Drake about what to ship with Vendel: Hmmmm...that seems awfully aggressive and specific, but maybe he's just kidding.... Maybe not. And, huh...no admin or mod citation. Considering this all takes place in this thread AFTER you declared 'enforcement' that's a bit odd, no?

You specifically referred to attacks on Eurasiangirl. Furthermore, there is nothing along the lines of "Vendel is an [insert insulting term]" in those posts. Again, if you want to expand the definition of what constitutes flaming, fine, but it sounds like you're objecting to the fact that flaming is being enforced at all, so make up your damn mind.

See above.

No u.

The objection seems to stem from the fact that she's targeting a group that TLS ALREADY targets.

Right, and the targeting has been allowed to get way out of hand and needs to stop.

Or, you know, 24 hours.

I already explained why both cases were borderline.

Then fucking enforce them, but be fair and reasonable about it.

Right.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Are you referring to the Forum Rules? The wording there is to "Be civil."

With the specific clarification:

Refrain from insulting, discriminating, trolling etc. other members on this forum. 'Be civil' sums it up pretty well, and shouldn't be too difficult.

Right, that's what I thought. I always took that to refer specifically to direct insults, so Drake saying "I hate Vendel" is technically not an insult but rather simply a statement of fact.

Also that reminds me that all Vendel's YouTube bullshit is blatantly in violation of the rules, as is bringing up people's views years ago on other forums. Guess we need to start enforcing those as well.

Also I'ma put these in the registration form later. I have work now though

edit: nvm, it wasn't as difficult as I thought, done. I'll make them look prettier later tho.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

"Clito" is insulting in the same way as "retarded"? Granted, I should have been more specific and used the phrase "Clotis with insane views on the LTD." That was my mistake, and I apologise for it. However, people use the word "pinker" all the time and no one ever bats an eye. So complaining about the use of the word "Clito" is awfully fucking hypocritical.

**slams head to wall**

I do not care if you call her a Clito. I don't care if you call her a retard. I do not care if the terms pinker, shipper, fantard are thrown around like confetti. News flash: I'm one of the aggressive ones. However, the point I was trying to make--that apparently sailed right over your head--was that you can't berate someone for labeling a general shipping group as 'fantards' while simultaneously labeling that person directly with an unfavorable name. (even if it's "not as bad") Do you see how that's dumb?

Let me be clear, because apparently I lost you somewhere. I think policing sigs and conversations and debates to prevent 'hurt feelings' is dumb. I think Drake saying that he wants Vendel to be in a wood chipper is far more damaging, insulting and in need of moderation than a girl calling a rival ship 'idiotic'.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

you guys sometimes seem to advertise to CxA "we're assholes man it feels good to be right!!" and it doesn't matter if you are right, it makes you look like a douchebag. That article you mentioned on the first page is the PERFECT example of that.

Tres' LTD article is a perfect example of douchebaggy, anti-Cleris attitude? And then you say I don't read your posts. This mentality is precisely what I was talking about.

u guys can't seem to grasp that not all of them are like that

...according to you they are the ones refusing to join a forum because it's overrun by a bunch of mean Clotis. If they (and you) think the LTD article is an example of anti-Cleris attitude, the problem is clearly not that we are hostile, but simply that we are. Period.

@V-man: you're blowing this shit out of proportion, Cap, not sorry to say. Maybe we should put some disclaimers on every post, maybe some extra giggling emoticons to let the world know we don't hate it.

whatever

I think policing sigs and conversations and debates to prevent 'hurt feelings' is dumb

I would thank you 10x for this if I could. I'm getting Anastar forums vibes. Ick.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Can anyone honestly answer me as to what is conducive towards any sort of argument that posting of 'youtards' or posting old views of forum members is? Cause everyone says embarrassing shit on the internet, but I certainly don't see anyone looking at strifeheart in the wayback machine to say things about stupid members there.

 

[Winter]

it's not anti-cleris it's just rude, holy shit
it's like you're reading but literally not understanding what I'm writing

It's douchebaggy. It's not that it's "anti-cleris" (where is this them vs. us shit coming from ugh) it's just really pretentious and gives off this vibe that if you come to the forums to talk about FFVII you are expected to suck our dicks because cloti is canon and we're so great.

It's not that you are "mean clotis" it's that you make yourselves look bad by being unnecessarily rude about a 15 year old shipping war that most people at CxA don't even take that seriously.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

it's not anti-cleris it's just rude, holy shit
it's like you're reading but literally not understanding what I'm writing

It's douchebaggy. It's not that it's "anti-cleris" (where is this them vs. us shit coming from ugh) it's just really pretentious and gives off this vibe that if you come to the forums to talk about FFVII you are expected to suck our dicks because cloti is canon and we're so great.

It's not that you are "mean clotis" it's that you make yourselves look bad by being unnecessarily rude about a 15 year old shipping war that most people at CxA don't even take that seriously.

The way I see it TLS is an open clubhouse and the LTD thread is that dark room in the back filled with the 'cool kids' and Cleriths are the awkward, gangly kid that we say "Sure, kid, come on back...it'll be fun." And then we sucker punch him and take his lunch money.

Although, I don't see Tres posting as douche-bag-like in any way. I thought it was presented rather well, truthfully. I do see where you're coming from though and I imagine that for some people--Clerith or not--the idea of being in a thread that is full of vitriol and superiority may be a bit daunting. It takes some serious fantardedness to hang out here for very long, and I say that with great affection. I enjoy the raucousness and the debate and the off-topic lesbians and the actual divergence into issues like Dissidia materia, but that doesn't mean anyone that doesn't is some sort of intellectual pussy that needs to be mocked.

PS. I expect people to suck my dick because it tastes like cotton candy and I'm awesome. Just sayin'.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

The way I see it TLS is an open clubhouse and the LTD thread is that dark room in the back filled with the 'cool kids'

stopped reading right here.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

stopped reading right here.

Oh noes! Whatever will I do without your insightful in-depth commentary? Did you not like the 'quote' marks denoting sarcasm? I'm sorry, did you really wanna be a cool kid? That's too bad.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Oh noes! Whatever will I do without your insightful in-depth commentary? Did you not like the 'quote' marks denoting sarcasm? I'm sorry, did you really wanna be a cool kid? That's too bad.

oh okay

 

[I Am Not Me]

You guys...

...are taking things way too seriously.

Can I be a mod?

 

[Joe]

You guys...

...are taking things way too seriously.

In the LTD thread?

WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE?