Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, (and likely others)

[AvecAloes]

Ok, when I first saw this thread, I honestly had no idea what it was about (sheltered - no cable so I hardly hear any news about new movies and such), and so passed it by. Then someone told me what Prometheus was about, and now I'm actually getting pretty pumped for this. I didn't see any of the Alien movies til 2008, so I'm kind of a late coming fan, but going through this thread and watching the trailers really has me looking forward to this, and I'm not even the biggest fan of scary movies.

 

[Unlucky]

I saw this yesterday in the theaters and decided to buy some of the Alien movies to refresh my mind. I'm definitely going to watch this!

I loved Alien Resurrection, but I've heard that it wasn't the same as what happened in the comics. Was it really that bad?

 

[Tetsujin]

I loved Alien Resurrection, but I've heard that it wasn't the same as what happened in the comics.

Alien is not a comic book movie...

 

[Unlucky]

Yep, I just read about it. Seems that the comic is done based on the movie and not the other way around.

Almost the same question though, why do most fans of the trilogy didn't find it as good? Were there some contradictions in the storyline or it's just a matter of directing?

<Might know the answer after watching all these movies I just bought>

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You'll know the answer. And why some of us refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't have Ridley Scott's fingerprints on it.

 

[Unlucky]

Damn. Of all the installments I missed to buy. I only have Aliens and Alien 3 with me.

I HAVE to find that first movie.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Two words detail Why the fan base didn't like alien resurrection:
Winona rider

 

[Octo]

Ressurection was an enjoyable romp, but it was very comic book-ish, that at least for me is why I don't really consider it canon. Nothing wrong with comic book action stuff, it just didn't sit right with the rest of the franchise for me.

I'm probably one of the few people who likes Alien 3, but it definitely got butchered in the editing process, if you can watch the directors cut (Assembly cut) because its a much better film. I think a lot of the criticism of Alien 3 came from the fact that

Spoiler

Newt and Hicks were killed off. I get the feeling that fans of Aliens basically wanted another action movie in the same vein, personally I think it would have sucked. The Alien universe isn't about happy endings. Don't get me wrong, I love Aliens but it's nowhere near as scary as Alien, Cameron basically turned the Aliens into big ants instead of the eldritch abomination that existed in the first film.

Pug, you should definitely try and track Alien down first, and then watch the films in order. I think Alien is

Spoiler

the best, because its the most realistic, in how the characters act and speak and I think that makes it more scary

 

[Unlucky]

I'm probably one of the few people who likes Alien 3, but it definitely got butchered in the editing process, if you can watch the directors cut (Assembly cut) because its a much better film. I think a lot of the criticism of Alien 3 came from the fact that

Spoiler

Newt and Hicks were killed off. I get the feeling that fans of Aliens basically wanted another action movie in the same vein, personally I think it would have sucked. The Alien universe isn't about happy endings. Don't get me wrong, I love Aliens but it's nowhere near as scary as Alien, Cameron basically turned the Aliens into big ants instead of the eldritch abomination that existed in the first film.

Although I think Alien 3 is a bit boring (actually fell asleep halfway through), I think it's a good decision to

Spoiler

kill off Hicks and Newt. The story would be a lot more different with Ripley attached to the kid. And yeah, my first memory of seeing Aliens as a kid was noting that they look like huge-ass ants!

Pug, you should definitely try and track Alien down first, and then watch the films in order. I think Alien is

Spoiler

the best, because its the most realistic, in how the characters act and speak and I think that makes it more scary

I really should, a lot of people have been saying the same thing, including my mom who had seen it back then. She didn't like Resurrection either, so I guess it really was that bad...? It's the first Alien movie I saw and understood (I wasn't even born yet during 'Aliens' ) so maybe that's why I think it's soooo kewl

 

[X-SOLDIER]

For anyone wondering about Newt & Hicks, the game Aliens: Colonial Marines is official Fox continuity and may end up covering some of what went down there.

As for the films:


Alien & Aliens are very different types of films. The Xenomorph itself is much more daunting in the context of Alien. If you're 4 space truckers caught in a spaceship with a lion, it's a very different scenario than being a fully armed Marine Squad investigating a planetary colony overrun by lions.

Alien³ ran into issues with getting fucked over in production almost constantly. There's also the bit that Resurrection

Spoiler

takes place something like 300 years after Alien³, and also for the weird DNA hybridization.

I'm actually one of the few who generally enjoys Resurrection though.

Spoiler

Also, There's the whole Android Alphabet thing with Ash, Bishop, Call, & David.

X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I will say I quite enjoyed "Aliens," and don't mind counting it with the first movie (despite it being a very different film), but everything after that was complete garbage (this includes the "Predator" crossovers; the very worst of the lot).

So excited about "Prometheus," though.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I think Aleins worked perfectly as a sequel to ALien. ALien was terrifying and tense because tis essentially a bunch of everyday guys versus a creature whose only purpose seems to be killing the shit out of them in horrible ways.

ALiens took a different approach, with armed trained marines instead of space truckers or whatever. It might not have been as scary, but it was still every bit as good. I perssonaly don't think there is anything wrong with the Xenomorphs being a hive mind.

Alein 3 and Aleins Ressurection were both horrible movies that completely betrayed the first two Though ALiens had a somewhat different premise, what with Marines capable of defending themselves rather than space truckers, it still had the same visual style and atmosphere. It felt like it wa sin the same universe.

The next two movies felt like something totally different, and wholly terrible. Killing Newt and Hicks was a fucking terrible idea made all the worse by the fact that it was done OFFSCREEN. Guess they enver heard of show don't tell.

Killing Ripley wasn't as bad, since they at least had the decency to show it on screen and try to give it the weight and significance such a character death should have, even if they failed miserably.

All other things aside Alien 3 ended up being a poor mans Alien, while Ressureciton was a poor mans Aliens.

All told though Prometheus looks really good, and Ridley Scotts involvement can only mean good things.

 

[Super Mario]

I believe with Prometheus, it is another step in discovering that there is another life form out there and not just the xenomorphs or predators.

 

[Octo]

IIRC I read somewhere that Weaver wanted Ripley killed off because she didn't want it to be the same thing over and over, which is fair enough I guess. (I think she changed her mind with Ressurection because lol million billion dollars)

Could have been interesting to keep Newt and Hicks alive, but I guess a large portion of the film would have been spent keeping the inmates away from Newt *shudder*

I still don't think it was a bad film, and the directors cut is much better and explains a lot

Spoiler

The Queen got on board the Sulaco, and so laid a 'queen egg' which then hatched. Later it shows two inmates dealing with a dead cow and finding a 'queen facehugger' - which look even more horrible than regular ones, but being stupid inmates (lol one of them is scouse) they just forget about it. I think the theory is the Queen facehugger can implant 2 xenomorphs, a queen and a drone for the queens protection

Phew. Anyway yeah, sadly I don't think Alien3 can be judged on the standard edition alone. It's still probably the weakest of the trilogy but I like it goddamnit! Maybe thats just because I'm a grim kind of person?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

IIRC I read somewhere that Weaver wanted Ripley killed off because she didn't want it to be the same thing over and over, which is fair enough I guess. (I think she changed her mind with Ressurection because lol million billion dollars)

I read that the script for "Ressurrection" changed her mind because of the changes to the character, what with the alien DNA mixing in with the Ripley clone's. I think she was also given a degree of creative control over the production (the reason she's listed as a co-producer).

And, yeah, a lot of money too. =P

Could have been interesting to keep Newt and Hicks alive, but I guess a large portion of the film would have been spent keeping the inmates away from Newt *shudder*

There is no excuse for killing Newt, Hicks and Bishop. None at all.

I still don't think it was a bad film, and the directors cut is much better and explains a lot

Spoiler

The Queen got on board the Sulaco, and so laid a 'queen egg' which then hatched. Later it shows two inmates dealing with a dead cow and finding a 'queen facehugger' - which look even more horrible than regular ones, but being stupid inmates (lol one of them is scouse) they just forget about it. I think the theory is the Queen facehugger can implant 2 xenomorphs, a queen and a drone for the queens protection

Phew. Anyway yeah, sadly I don't think Alien3 can be judged on the standard edition alone. It's still probably the weakest of the trilogy but I like it goddamnit! Maybe thats just because I'm a grim kind of person?

The Assembly Cut is better in the same sense that the director's cut of "Elektra" is a better movie: instead of plain dogshit, you've got dressed-up dogshit.

Actually, that might not be a good example at all. The "Elektra" director's cut may have been an even worse movie, but, still -- no version of the third Alien movie is redeemable.

Wow, I didn't realize the extent of my hatred for it until this thread.

 

[Octo]

There is no excuse for killing Newt, Hicks and Bishop. None at all.

Yeah but Bishop could have been repaired, he just didn't want to because he wouldn't be top of the line. Vanity thy name is Bishop 341-B!

Don't get me wrong, when I first saw Alien3 I was dissapointed that they'd died but then again I don't really expect any nice things to happen in the Alien universe.

Also NO U! I mean it had plot and editing problems without a doubt, but the acting, cinematography and music were really good.


Edit: Actually I was wondering....do you think anyone is going to survive Prometheus? I'm getting the feeling everyone dies in a variety of nasty ways.

 

[Tetsujin]

I wonder what Resurrection would've been like if they had filmed Whedon's script the way he meant it to be.

 

[Octo]

I wonder what Resurrection would've been like if they had filmed Whedon's script the way he meant it to be.

How'd you mean? Whedon is a comic book guy isn't he, but I'm not that familiar with his work. So would Resurrection be more comicesque?


The worst part I can remember in Resurrection is when General Perez dies...that whole scene was just fucking stupid and cartoony. I don't know who is responsible for that though.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@ Tres: I'd highly suggest watching through some of the special features from Alien³ - it'll give you a lot more respect for the film as a whole after knowing what happened with it. There are actually a good number of things that I really like about Alien³ despite it being the most disjointed of the films. The bit with Ripley actually meeting the Xenomorph face-to-face is actually one of my favorite scenes in all of the Alien films, because it's the first time you see the intelligence of the Xenomorphs at point-blank range in the terms of a hive structure - it knows she's carrying the Queen, and it's refusing to harm her, and actually killing anyone who puts her in harms way.


Aside from the fact that I'm generally a person who finds it very difficult to dislike films and other media that are about a universe that I enjoy, I think that it's actually that part of Alien³ that probably makes me enjoy Resurrection, where Ripley is often finding herself identifying more and more with the Xenomorphs than with the Humans, and now that she's actually connected with them, it changes the nature of her character a bit. Granted I'm not a fan of the newborn, but I think that for the purpose of the evolution of Ripley's character it makes sense why Sigourney Weaver would become involved with a production that played with the idea that really brings out the fact that Ripley's skipped through time and really doesn't have anything in her life left aside from the Xenomorphs.

As for the AvP films - they're something else entirely for me. For me there's the "Aliens Continuity" which is specific to WY, Ripley, & the Xenomorphs, and it only consists of Alien, Aliens, Alien³, & Alien: Resurrection, and now Prometheus. I think I may make an exception for the game Aliens: Colonial Marines, since it details what happens between Aliens & Alien³ and it's officialized as Fox canon.

Then there's the "AvP Continuity" which consists of all the Alien, Predator, AvP films, games, and comics. Really the environments between the two continuities are very different when I think about them. I can best explain it this way: When I think about any of the Predator films, they always exist in the AvP Continuity, because they're action films, and it works to their advantage. Alien exists in its own continuity, unless it's specified that we're discussing Xenomorphs in the AvP setting, because there's a different idea to the machination of the creatures being what they are, all on their own.

Now, after Prometheus comes out, I might be inclined to suggest that there ALSO exists a "Ridley Scott Continuity" that consists solely of Prometheus & Alien, but that'll be after seeing that film.



X

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I think all of em will die.
Otherwise weyland industries would know about the planet/ship and the first alien film would be rather a rather redundant coincidence.

 

[Octo]

But didn't they already know in the first film? I'm pretty sure thats why Ash replaced their science officer at the last minute.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

O.0

I'm not overly sure now you said that.
Then again how many years are between this and alien?
If weyland knew about the craft I doubt they would wait very long to reap the technology etc. let alone leave it to a mining crew to rediscover.

 

[Octo]

Its at least a hundred years before IIRC, isn't it meant to be shortly after they've managed long distance space travel or something?

So it kind of sounds as if they found out stuff, but then it was forgotten/hidden?

Mysterious indeed.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I think that WY most likely got the information back from someone on the Prometheus mission, but they didn't manage to get a specimen. The crew of the Nostromo was set up only in the sense that Ash had reprogrammable directives that put the survival of the Xenomorph as priority one. If WY knew where to send them, they'd have gone after it WAY sooner, and would've gotten the colonists at Hadley's Hope to check out the site, before recovering Ripley, and Burke issuing the order to Newt's parents.

I have a feeling that the "distress beacon" (that was most likely a warning signal) being sent out from the Derelict was something that WY knew to be on the lookout for (and may be something that we find out about in Prometheus), thus the crew getting pulled out of hypersleep when they detect it. Also, it's worth noting that in Alien, very early on - even before the crew gets to the ship to investigate it, Ash seems to know more about what's happening than he's letting on, especially when Ripley starts voicing concerns about the meaning of the signal.

Mostly, I think that Prometheus is going to set up WY finding out about the Space Jockey ships and their biomechanical technology (that becomes the Xenomorphs), and setting up protocols on how to ensure that if they find one again that they manage to obtain what it holds as a top priority.


X

 

[Octo]

Sorry to bump this with such a minor thing but I saw my first TV trailer today and its out on June 1st in the UK and squuuueeeeeee.

But then I saw this: http://www.fact.co.uk/whats-on/prometheus-3d

According to my local cinema. Looks like its going to have a 15 rating. I'm not a gorehound or anything but I dunno...15 seems a little soft y'know?

I mean its not like it has to contain gore to deliver the scares.....but a guy gets his face melted? And other various horrible things happen. I dunno, I guess all the torture porn films set the bar too high or something.