Should they re-make FFVII?

[Lord Noctis]

If you are implying that my post was about whoring my fanfic and teasing people with future plot developments and not about providing insight and commentary on Sephiroth and Cloud's respective levels of strength....hm, lost my train of thought...

Actually I was saying my own post complimenting your fic was not on topic, a smy compliments added nothing to the topic.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

....right I knew that!

 

[Lord Noctis]

Seriously though, this thread seems to have deviated from its original topic. Maybe a mod should split this conversationa bout who is strongest and split it into a different thread.

 

[Wolfmania]

I'd like to give my piece on this whole Sephiroth/Cloud business going on in this thread.

Now, we all know Sephiroth in AC is the strongest being in FFVII, he's basically jenova with a 1st Class SOLDIER skill's empowered by an entire lifestream.

He is basically a god, no doubt stronger than even the planet.

Now If you watch the AC fight, to me, It's clear that they are portrayed as physical equals. Both Cloud's and Sephiroth's existential forces are monumental, by the fact both can to some degree remain separated from teh planet because of they're wills.

Sephiroth being calm and everything, is an attribute to his new "otherworldly" persona they were trying to create in AC. The Reunion files stated that they tried to make him as otherworldly as possible with things such as: Not making him sweat, not making him blink, not making him grunt much(though he does anyway), not making much sounds at all, not sweating, and generally not showing any signs of exertion.

However, that dosen't nescessarily mean he wasn't trying, because he clearly was.

Remember that this is the strongest incarnation of Sephiroth, and that he actually used two hands agaisnt Cloud, stances, telekinesis, burning buildings by slashing(a feat said to be a concentration of power, only given to Cloud and Seph in AC), and as the crow deciding factor, Sephiroth lost his smirk, mid combat with Cloud. A sign of frustration, to the man that never loses his smirk.

Now that's done, I beleive they were portrayed as qual in most physical traits. Speed was clearly equal, Strenght was as well since CLoud and Sephiroth both pushed each other back in sword-locks during the fight, etc... the only trait which teh creator's outright said Sephiroth surpasses him, is in endurance. That's probably because of his lifestream, which is empowering this transcendental form, or because he is now totally alien and is restricted from such human aspects.

That being said, the creator's state that Sephiroth and Cloud were equals for the duration of their fight.

http://imageshack.us/f/217/119tee.jpg/

First quote. It said that the upper hand was eventually taken when Cloud became exhausted. Meaning they were fighting, as equals in skill and power, for the duration of the fight.

Furthermore, the creator's obviously depict them as rivals,

“He was to fulfill the volition inherited from "Mother" to "To rule the Planet", and fought against his fated rival Cloud.

Cloud answers Sephiroth's proposal with his own perseverance. Cloud regards what is right, as Sephiroth holds Cloud in place, both standing in each other's way as fated rivals.” – http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/sephiroth.php


On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization "AVALANCHE" led by Barret. At first he has little interest in their goal of 'protecting the planet'. But after meeting Aerith, an Ancient, and reuniting with his fated rival Sephiroth, he throws himself fully into the battle to save the planet. To Cloud, this is also a battle to examine who he really is and to settle his past. -http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/cloud.php

As for Sephiroth's magic, do remember that Cloud didn't have any either, so he'd obviously refrain from such as he wanted to beat Cloud fair and square.

As for his other abilities:

- Telekinesis: Frankly, I doubt this would work on AC Cloud. This is a Cloud whose existential force surpasses even the planet's, and earlier Sephiroth's. he does use it in battle to topple down the shinra building. He might've tried using it on this Cloud, but to avail.

- Intangibility: I don't think Sephiroth would foolishly try this. Kadaj had intangibility, but he refrained from using it against Cloud in combat. probably becasue since limits use spiritual energy, he'd be open to a hit like that if he tried to become intangiable.

- Teleportation: He dosen't really use this for combat purposes. In FFVII he only teleports to get around the party. He's never used It truely in combat.

Other than that the reason Sephiroth can deflect the Omnisalsh with a normal strike, is that Sephiroth dosen't really have limit breaks, even when he supposedly did octaslash there was no difference to his strikes. And Sephiroth could only sit there and parry the omnislash, he could only counter the last attack. Plus, he was visibly taking measure before the attack, and had knowledge of it.

That being said I believe that Cloud and Sephiroth are equals on physical terms at the very least, however Sephiroth has more stamina than him(probably because he's not human and has a lifestream).

Hence why Sephiroth is undoubtedly the strongest being in FFVII.

This is a huge accomplishment, considering CC Sephiroth was already just a bit stronger than SOLDIERS such as Genesis. In AC he is now empowered by his own lifestream and actually leaves burning fire in buildings(along with Cloud), which the creator's described as a measure of power. They also produce light by clashing, a feat never seen before in FFVII, supporting the idea of this rivalrly.

So yea, that's my take on the subject

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Ok, I just read like 20 fucking pages 'cause I forgot what this thread was about.

Exactly, came from nowhere, Cloud had a wing in KH for the purpose of representing the power of darkness or something like that, which is bullshit because no one else in KH ever grows wings when they use darkness, and then Sephiroth got a wing to show his connection to Cloud, and it carried over and got extrapolated into some bullshit about Jenova cells. In reality the wing never did anything and never served any purpose except to look cool. Which is why it's so fitting for Sephiroth, the villain that's all flash and no substance.

Hi. Sephiroth's themesong from '97 would like to have some words.

bitch plz, the one-winged bs was his thing since the OG. It didn't come out of nowhere. He had the one wing that stood out and marked him as not having completed his transformation/tainted etc. They gave it a makeover in KH/AC. That's hardly out of the blue.

Granted, I always thought it was an allusion to his ascension and nearly-godly nature, like Masa said. Aaand then CC gave one to all the other retards so they can all be special together.

/OFF-TOPIC

 

[Chrno]

Yes they should ^^

 

[Roger]

I'd like to give my piece on this whole Sephiroth/Cloud business going on in this thread.

Now, we all know Sephiroth in AC is the strongest being in FFVII, he's basically jenova with a 1st Class SOLDIER skill's empowered by an entire lifestream.

He is basically a god, no doubt stronger than even the planet.

Now If you watch the AC fight, to me, It's clear that they are portrayed as physical equals. Both Cloud's and Sephiroth's existential forces are monumental, by the fact both can to some degree remain separated from teh planet because of they're wills.

Sephiroth being calm and everything, is an attribute to his new "otherworldly" persona they were trying to create in AC. The Reunion files stated that they tried to make him as otherworldly as possible with things such as: Not making him sweat, not making him blink, not making him grunt much(though he does anyway), not making much sounds at all, not sweating, and generally not showing any signs of exertion.

However, that dosen't nescessarily mean he wasn't trying, because he clearly was.

Remember that this is the strongest incarnation of Sephiroth, and that he actually used two hands agaisnt Cloud, stances, telekinesis, burning buildings by slashing(a feat said to be a concentration of power, only given to Cloud and Seph in AC), and as the crow deciding factor, Sephiroth lost his smirk, mid combat with Cloud. A sign of frustration, to the man that never loses his smirk.

Now that's done, I beleive they were portrayed as qual in most physical traits. Speed was clearly equal, Strenght was as well since CLoud and Sephiroth both pushed each other back in sword-locks during the fight, etc... the only trait which teh creator's outright said Sephiroth surpasses him, is in endurance. That's probably because of his lifestream, which is empowering this transcendental form, or because he is now totally alien and is restricted from such human aspects.

That being said, the creator's state that Sephiroth and Cloud were equals for the duration of their fight.

http://imageshack.us/f/217/119tee.jpg/

First quote. It said that the upper hand was eventually taken when Cloud became exhausted. Meaning they were fighting, as equals in skill and power, for the duration of the fight.

Furthermore, the creator's obviously depict them as rivals,

“He was to fulfill the volition inherited from "Mother" to "To rule the Planet", and fought against his fated rival Cloud.

Cloud answers Sephiroth's proposal with his own perseverance. Cloud regards what is right, as Sephiroth holds Cloud in place, both standing in each other's way as fated rivals.” – http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/sephiroth.php


On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization "AVALANCHE" led by Barret. At first he has little interest in their goal of 'protecting the planet'. But after meeting Aerith, an Ancient, and reuniting with his fated rival Sephiroth, he throws himself fully into the battle to save the planet. To Cloud, this is also a battle to examine who he really is and to settle his past. -http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/cloud.php

As for Sephiroth's magic, do remember that Cloud didn't have any either, so he'd obviously refrain from such as he wanted to beat Cloud fair and square.

As for his other abilities:

- Telekinesis: Frankly, I doubt this would work on AC Cloud. This is a Cloud whose existential force surpasses even the planet's, and earlier Sephiroth's. he does use it in battle to topple down the shinra building. He might've tried using it on this Cloud, but to avail.

- Intangibility: I don't think Sephiroth would foolishly try this. Kadaj had intangibility, but he refrained from using it against Cloud in combat. probably becasue since limits use spiritual energy, he'd be open to a hit like that if he tried to become intangiable.

- Teleportation: He dosen't really use this for combat purposes. In FFVII he only teleports to get around the party. He's never used It truely in combat.

Other than that the reason Sephiroth can deflect the Omnisalsh with a normal strike, is that Sephiroth dosen't really have limit breaks, even when he supposedly did octaslash there was no difference to his strikes. And Sephiroth could only sit there and parry the omnislash, he could only counter the last attack. Plus, he was visibly taking measure before the attack, and had knowledge of it.

That being said I believe that Cloud and Sephiroth are equals on physical terms at the very least, however Sephiroth has more stamina than him(probably because he's not human and has a lifestream).

Hence why Sephiroth is undoubtedly the strongest being in FFVII.

This is a huge accomplishment, considering CC Sephiroth was already just a bit stronger than SOLDIERS such as Genesis. In AC he is now empowered by his own lifestream and actually leaves burning fire in buildings(along with Cloud), which the creator's described as a measure of power. They also produce light by clashing, a feat never seen before in FFVII, supporting the idea of this rivalrly.

So yea, that's my take on the subject

All this, so much.

 

[Max Payne]

Why the frick was an off topic debate from last goddamn year resurrected in this thread?

Also, Sephiroth is FAR from a God.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Also, Sephiroth is FAR from a God.

in bed

/shut up i can't sleep

 

[Wolfmania]

Why the frick was an off topic debate from last goddamn year resurrected in this thread?

Yea...sorry about that one.

Also, Sephiroth is FAR from a God.

By FFVII standards? He pretty much is one.

If Minerva is anything to be compared to a god/goddess.

 

[Max Payne]

By FFVII standards? He pretty much is one.

If Minerva is anything to be compared to a god/goddess.

No, he isn't, and it's obvious Minerva isn't really a goddess as well.

 

[Masamune]

Ok, I just read like 20 fucking pages 'cause I forgot what this thread was about.


Hi. Sephiroth's themesong from '97 would like to have some words.

bitch plz, the one-winged bs was his thing since the OG. It didn't come out of nowhere. He had the one wing that stood out and marked him as not having completed his transformation/tainted etc. They gave it a makeover in KH/AC. That's hardly out of the blue.

Granted, I always thought it was an allusion to his ascension and nearly-godly nature, like Masa said. Aaand then CC gave one to all the other retards so they can all be special together.

/OFF-TOPIC

The thing is tho, the one winged imagery was always specific to Safer Sephiroth (why the pluperfect hell was he called that again?). 'Those Chosen by the Planet' was Sephiroth's theme song in the original game, not to mention the fact it plays in the final final battle, where he's mano y mano with Cloud.

Sephiroth never sprouted a wing in the original game, until his transformation (that was kinda the point). I can understand why they'd do it in Kingdom Hearts, since the characters are symbolic within that universe, but I don't see why he needs to be doing the one winged dealie in AC/C. Same reason for everything else, I guess...

Look forward to that in the remake.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm not sure where they'd stick it in a remake except where it is already...it's clearly used whenever he's at the height of his power, and the only time he's like that in VII is as Safer Sephiroth, where else would they insert it?
I mean I guess he flies around a lot in the game and they could slap it on...but he does plenty of flying in AC/C without it.

The only reason he's got it in Dissidia is because the PSP doesn't have enough memory to render Safer real-time. They didn't, after all, give it to him in Crisis Core. And everyone had wings in CC, so you'd think if they were gonna retcon some wings on Sephy, that would be where they were gonna do it.

 

[Roger]

They only time i can see it given to him in a remake is if the Cloud vs Sephiroth fight in the Lifestream was more elaborated and he had like flying attacks and stuff.

 

[Tifabelle]

I'm a great believer in "less is more". I think if they show it too much, it sort of loses the impact.

I could see them showing it for the Cloud/Sephiroth Lifestream fight though since he's shirtless. I mean... I assume they don't just manifest it out of nothing.

HOW DO THEY GET IT TO GO THROUGH THEIR CLOTHES?

 

[Shademp]

HOW DO THEY GET IT TO GO THROUGH THEIR CLOTHES?

Not to mention, HOW DO THEY HIDE THE WINGS BENEATH THE CLOTHES?!

The answer is probably in the lines of "it's magic".

 

[Ⓐaron]

Safer Sephiroth (why the pluperfect hell was he called that again?).

Because the translators suck. I believe it's supposed to be Sepher Sephiroth, which, if memory serves, is Hebrew for "The Book of Numbers". It's probably another kabbalah reference as well.

 

[Tetsujin]

The only reason he's got it in Dissidia is because the PSP doesn't have enough memory to render Safer real-time.

Wasn't that just a rumour that turned out to be untrue?

 

[ForceStealer]

Was it? I thought that was in some interview? You may be right though.

@belle and Shademp - I think "it's magic" really is the answer. It's not like Angel in X-men, the wing magically manifests.

 

[Masamune]

I'm not sure where they'd stick it in a remake except where it is already...it's clearly used whenever he's at the height of his power, and the only time he's like that in VII is as Safer Sephiroth, where else would they insert it?
I mean I guess he flies around a lot in the game and they could slap it on...but he does plenty of flying in AC/C without it.

Really? I could totally see Sephiroth swooping down, impaling Aerith, before outstretching his wing to the flutter of black feathers and flying awaiz. You know, 'cos he's Sephiroth. He's ebils and the one winged angel, yo.

They didn't, after all, give it to him in Crisis Core. And everyone had wings in CC, so you'd think if they were gonna retcon some wings on Sephy, that would be where they were gonna do it.

I think that's exactly WHY they didn't give Sephiroth a wing in CC. But then, I don't know why they had such a wing fetish in that game in the first place.

 

[ForceStealer]

Sorry...what's exactly why he didn't have a wing in CC?

And I suppose they could do that for Aerith's death...I'm not sure they would since its not actually Sephiroth, and you fight him as Jenova seconds later. But I guess that doesn't prevent them.
*shrugs* Hell if I know. I just feel like they'd want to save that for when you see the real thing.

Now, I could see the wing being wrapped around him encased in Mako like it is on the floor of the SE store. Frankly I'd live with that as it's a nice way to cover his nether-regions rather than them just being nonexistant.

 

[Masamune]

Sorry...what's exactly why he didn't have a wing in CC?

Well, they made the wings something of a plot point, didn't they? Angeal & Genesis (and all their copies) being mutations of Project G.

And I suppose they could do that for Aerith's death...I'm not sure they would since its not actually Sephiroth, and you fight him as Jenova seconds later.

It's as much Sephiroth as it is in AC/C.

 

[Octo]

But then, I don't know why they had such a wing fetish in that game in the first place.

Me neither, it really got on my tits. In FFVII it was a device to show Sephiroth becoming godlike with all the religious imagery there. Plus he actually has about 7 wings so oh my god learn to count squaresoft?!

Then, as if Genesis (and to a lesser extent Angeal) were not bad enough for detracting from Sephiroths uniqueness, they end up having wings as well?

I think its an unintentional metaphor for the compilation. Genesis and Seph can fly anyway, the wings are merely decorative. Decorative and useless flimsy crap

While we're on the subject, the Angeal monster's designs were totally at odds with the aesthetic of FFVII. They looked more like an after thought left over from FFVIII.

 

[Masamune]

Me neither, it really got on my tits. In FFVII it was a device to show Sephiroth becoming godlike with all the religious imagery there. Plus he actually has about 7 wings so oh my god learn to count squaresoft?!

Then, as if Genesis (and to a lesser extent Angeal) were not bad enough for detracting from Sephiroths uniqueness, they end up having wings as well?

I think what finally killed it was Hollander growing a tiny black wing, as well. As if he didn't look stupid enough already.

While we're on the subject, the Angeal monster's designs were totally at odds with the aesthetic of FFVII. They looked more like an after thought left over from FFVIII.

Most of the Compilation is like that, though, apart from the enemies recycled from the original game. Look at Bahamut SIN..... or the Tsviets/Deepground. None of them look like they belong in this world.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Me neither, it really got on my tits. In FFVII it was a device to show Sephiroth becoming godlike with all the religious imagery there. Plus he actually has about 7 wings so oh my god learn to count squaresoft?!

Then, as if Genesis (and to a lesser extent Angeal) were not bad enough for detracting from Sephiroths uniqueness, they end up having wings as well?

I think its an unintentional metaphor for the compilation. Genesis and Seph can fly anyway, the wings are merely decorative. Decorative and useless flimsy crap

While we're on the subject, the Angeal monster's designs were totally at odds with the aesthetic of FFVII. They looked more like an after thought left over from FFVIII.

You're right in regards to Sephiroth, but there is nothing to suggest Genesis is capable of flying without his wing.