Should they re-make FFVII?

[Tifabelle]

I can accept the whole degredation activated it. Even that Lifestream maybe activated it for Sephiroth. I don't even mind that they said "they didn't know where the wing comes from". It a cop-out, sure. But it lets them leave it open for explanation in the future. w/e

 

[Vossler]

EDIT: never midn, completely misread ya.

Sephiroth's born with it. The rest is Maybelline

He did look like a faggot. Now we know why.

Which is absolutely terrifying. I mean, it looks like he has a tumor with feathers growing out of his ass :\

 

[Wiegraf]

I don't understand why everyone got so worked up over my "he should use his wing when he is flying if there is a remake" comment. I loved the wing and I thought it added to the Fallen Angel symbolism that I felt Sephiroth as a character was similar too. And in Crisis Core the wings obviously provided the ability to fly so I thought that if a remake happens it would be weird to see Sephiroth flying around with no real means at all other than his obvious power. I just feel that the wing provides a good way to re do this part of the game.

Like I said though, I am neutral to the remake so I don't really care either way.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The problem I have with it is that AC/C has already established Sephiroth can fly without the wing...then again CC establishes Sephy can teleport and cast Heartless Angel as a normal human, so....

 

[Tifabelle]

The problem I have with it is that AC/C has already established Sephiroth can fly without the wing...then again CC establishes Sephy can teleport and cast Heartless Angel as a normal human, so....

Fly? Or jump really high for really long? Because Cloud is more or less capable of keeping up with him, and he can't fly.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Fly? Or jump really high for really long? Because Cloud is more or less capable of keeping up with him, and he can't fly.

Sephiroth clearly flew on more than one occasion inf the OG.

 

[ForceStealer]

As did Cloud when he was completely overtaken by Sephiroth

 

[null]

I think Cloud kept up with Sephiroth purely because Sephiroth wanted him to.

Also, Seph did seem to have more control over his motion in AC than Cloud, like hanging in midair, or the way he would gently land.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, Sephiroth was flying, he could change direction and crap in the air. Cloud can just jump really freaking far.

I think Cloud kept up with Sephiroth purely because Sephiroth wanted him to.

And here we go again...

 

[Tifabelle]

Cloud defeated him because he wanted that too, right?


And that's not flying. It's falling with style

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It is worth a mention that ACC phisics are not the norm in the FFVII world. They were diliberatly played with because it was a GCI film. I wouldn't take the stunts they all pull off seriously.

The physics in the OG, CC and maybe DC are the norm, so I would take Sephiroth teleporting, flying, hovering ect. at face value. This would apply to the one time Cloud does it and Vincent as well.

 

[Tifabelle]

Well, I think that brings back to Drake's question of...then what's the point of the wing if he can fly without it?

Personally I think it's more a symbolic thing than meant to be a practical thing.

 

[null]

Cloud defeated him because he wanted that too, right?


And that's not flying. It's falling with style

So he can hang midair, change direction and control his stopping. Call it whatever you want, Cloud can't do that, therefore Sephiroth had a lot of say in him keeping up.

 

[Tifabelle]

Well, Cloud floats just before his limit. Perhaps it's the spirit energy. In which case, perhaps Sephiroth can control spirit energy at all times.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^This is what I'm talking about. It's ACC and the developers diliberatly forgot about phisics (and even admit they did) so they could have cooler looking fight scenes.

If they do do a remake of the OG, Cloud, at least, won't be doing this kind of stuff. Sephiroth is a whole different ball game.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Cloud can only fly for brief periods during limit breaks, whereas Sephiroth can do it whenver the fuck he wants. Also I should add that if Sephiroth had used his magic abilities during ACC Cloud wouldn't have kept up, but he is capable of keeping up with Sephiroth's physical abilities, even though it is a struggle to do so.

I would also add to Obsidian Fire that we should accept the physics seen in ACC because the same physics were used in CC. I name the opening sequence, Sephiroth vs Genesis, and Zack vs. Sephiroth as examles of this.

If they re-did the OG Cloud probably would do similiar stunts as in ACC, though on a somewhat smaller scale since he wasn't as strong as he was in ACC during the OG.

 

[Tifabelle]

Well limit breaks use spirit energy, so that's kind of what I was saying. However,

Also I should add that if Sephiroth had used his magic abilities during ACC Cloud wouldn't have kept up, but he is capable of keeping up with Sephiroth's physical abilities, even though it is a struggle to do so.

Then why did Sephiroth lose? Was that part of his master plan? Even if he was holding back in the beginning, I would think he would have been able to turn the tides on Cloud in the end.

I would also add to Obsidian Fire that we should accept the physics seen in ACC because the same physics were used in CC. I name the opening sequence, Sephiroth vs Genesis, and Zack vs. Sephiroth as examles of this.

If they re-did the OG Cloud probably would do similiar stunts as in ACC, though on a somewhat smaller scale since he wasn't as strong as he was in ACC during the OG.

To a certain degree, I agree with this. Moments in CC showed some...pretty amazing agility. You can argue that's because they're SOLDIER members, however the others show similar agility in ACC. Cloud's is better of course. I think the OG would show these...extraordinary skills...similar to what we see in CC. And Vincent of course would probably be on par with Cloud.

 

[Shademp]

Examples of 'extraordinary skills' in OG:
- Vincent jumps in an almost levitating manner, also it's a fairly high jump.
- Yuffie jumps above the whole screen (scene when she returns to the Highwind at end of disc 2).
- Tifa falls a great distance before landing on the Sister Ray cannon (escape from Scarlet) and is apparently unharmed.

There may be a few more but I gtg.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Well limit breaks use spirit energy, so that's kind of what I was saying. However,



Then why did Sephiroth lose? Was that part of his master plan? Even if he was holding back in the beginning, I would think he would have been able to turn the tides on Cloud in the end.



To a certain degree, I agree with this. Moments in CC showed some...pretty amazing agility. You can argue that's because they're SOLDIER members, however the others show similar agility in ACC. Cloud's is better of course. I think the OG would show these...extraordinary skills...similar to what we see in CC. And Vincent of course would probably be on par with Cloud.

Sephiroth lost due to three things. First being the very same overconfidence that kept him from using amgic and limit breaks, because he felt his swordsmanship would be enough. Second is Cloud's willpower which allows him to keep fighting well past the point where his body should have quit. The third is Zack restoring Cloud's confidence in himself so he could use that willpower.

Sephiroth could have pulled his magic to coutner Cloud's limit break, except that by the time he realized things were turning against him it was to late. He didn't have enough time before Cloud started slicing him up.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Examples of 'extraordinary skills' in OG:
- Vincent jumps in an almost levitating manner, also it's a fairly high jump.
- Yuffie jumps above the whole screen (scene when she returns to the Highwind at end of disc 2).
- Tifa falls a great distance before landing on the Sister Ray cannon.

There may be a few more but I gtg.

Cloud falling off the secotr five palte and being more or less fine. Zack being thrown from Jenova chamber and crashing into the metal pod and living (Keep in mind he not only had to survive the flight and impact, but also a blow powerful enough to send him that far) Sephiroth survived being impaled witht he Buster Sword, and walked on despite his severed spinal cord (Of course Sephiroth is in another league from everyone else, so maybe that one doesn't count as much)

Also, Cloud threw Sephiroth quite a distance at an upwards agle using Masamune as a level after ebing impaled by it.

 

[Tifabelle]

Overconfidence will destroy you?

I don't see how having willpower makes you weaker. That's part of being strong, imo. I think Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth. idk about magic. I think in a certain aspect, Cloud is more or less an even match for Sephiroth. Sephiroth should have used Heartless Angel.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Overconfidence will destroy you?

I don't see how having willpower makes you weaker. That's part of being strong, imo. I think Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth. idk about magic. I think in a certain aspect, Cloud is more or less an even match for Sephiroth. Sephiroth should have used Heartless Angel.

When did I say willpower weakens you? I said basicly the opposite. In terms of skill Cloud is certainly on Sephiroth's level, and in terms of versatility Cloud is probably superior due to the nature of his weapon. In terms of agility its pretty close, but Sephiroth may have a slim advantage. In regards to both physical and magical strength Sephiroth appears to be quite a ways ahead of Cloud, and is at least fast enough tod efend against a basic Omnislash, though the sheer speed involved with Omnislash ver.6 seems to be a bit more than he could handle. I'm sure if he saw it coming and knew how it orked he could defend, but he wouldn't escpae unscathed.

In all honesty it would be inaccurate to describe Cloud as being the stronger of the two. But he is the better of the two due to his ability to maintain a levelhead and not get overconfident. He doesn't let his abilities go to his head. He also doesn't draw fights out for fun, or even for more sadistic purposes like Sephiroth seems to. To Cloud fighting is a means to an end, something to get done and overwith, whereas Sephiroth derives pleasure from it.

 

[Tifabelle]

Sephiroth cheats cause he has all the knowledge of the Ancients

As far as Omnislash goes, I always figured it was a move he'd seen before so knew how to defend against it. Of course, theoretically Cloud would have seen Octaslash, and was ass-kicked by it. I think all things considered, strength, magic, and intangibles, I still think they are more are less evenly matched.

As far as fighting for pleasure, I think prior to Nibelheim, Sephiroth did it because it was his job and all he knew. After that, he did have a purpose of becoming godlike. He does, however, derive obscene amounts of pleasure battling and torturing Cloud (for all reasons we know).

 

[Lord Noctis]

Sephiroth cheats cause he has all the knowledge of the Ancients

As far as Omnislash goes, I always figured it was a move he'd seen before so knew how to defend against it. Of course, theoretically Cloud would have seen Octaslash, and was ass-kicked by it. I think all things considered, strength, magic, and intangibles, I still think they are more are less evenly matched.

As far as fighting for pleasure, I think prior to Nibelheim, Sephiroth did it because it was his job and all he knew. After that, he did have a purpose of becoming godlike. He does, however, derive obscene amounts of pleasure battling and torturing Cloud (for all reasons we know).

No, if you look at the ACC fight you can clearly see Cloud is struggling while Sephiroth seems quite relzxed. Its clear that Cloud was having a far harder time than Sephiroth. Now thats not to say that Sephiroth was holding back or anything. In terms of physical strength and speed he was probably going at full power.

In terms of magical power theres no way Cloud could be Sephiroth's equal, as Sephiroth has all of Jenova's powers and a vast array of special abilities, like heartless angel, which he can preform at will while Cloud is relaint on materia to use magic.

I agree about Sephiroth's reasons for fighting though.

 

[Tifabelle]

No, if you look at the ACC fight you can clearly see Cloud is struggling while Sephiroth seems quite relzxed. Its clear that Cloud was having a far harder time than Sephiroth. Now thats not to say that Sephiroth was holding back or anything. In terms of physical strength and speed he was probably going at full power.

In terms of magical power theres no way Cloud could be Sephiroth's equal, as Sephiroth has all of Jenova's powers and a vast array of special abilities, like heartless angel, which he can preform at will while Cloud is relaint on materia to use magic.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. And Cloud struggles against Sephiroth, that's true, which might be more a case of endurance rather than strength. But I'm taking everything into account. Cloud has defeated Sephiroth 3 times. To me, all those intangibles (like willpower) push him up near equal to Sephiroth's level.