So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

Who does Cloud love?

  • Aerith

    Votes: 20 14.2%
  • Tifa

    Votes: 121 85.8%

  • Total voters
    141
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Vendel

Banned
Why do the NO DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION people almost always end up being C/A shippers?

I don't know. From the looks of that person they got talking points from clerith.com. But they go around as a neutral. Rabidly so.

My guess? If you are a rabid "neutral" you can spend all of your time trying to disprove Cloud and Tifa. You don't have to worry about actually proving C/A. Even though they spend just as much if not more time trying to disprove C/T.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
And Iam, Cloud and Tifa WERE NOT living together/raising children together for four years after FFVII. I confirmed this after reading a multitude of official documents and interviews. Tifa and Cloud were taking care of Marlene in Barret's stead, but Marlene obviously still considers Barret as her father.

Oh well SHIT! That explains everything!

No. It took me two minutes, ten to run the devil gate trials in Ookami, and another few to remember I didn't hit send.
Just :kermit:
 

Vendel

Banned
You're gonna be sitting and waiting for a long time :monster:

Well it does give me time to read up on old threads spy in the pinker forum.

The "True love vs False love" topic was particularly hilarious.
Cloud is faced with a choice between a relationship built on trust, devotion, understanding, and mutual attraction vs. a relationship built on sex, looks, miscommunication, lies, and problems. Which relationship is based on true love and which relationship is based on false pretenses? Was the love triangle intended to have us distinguish between a true foundation of love vs. a false foundation of love?
This was from 2004. And they are still peddling similar BS.

Oh and this gem.
No matter which choices you make during the game, Cloud still chooses Aerith at the end of it.
And speaking of still slinging the same BS from 2004.
I think Tifa loved "First-Class SOLDIER Cloud", a mere image, not the real Cloud.
Q you should go find these threads and quote every single stupid line like this and be like "um...do you still believe that considering XY&Z". The answer would probably be a ban then a YES! Or vice versa.
 

Neutron Ronnie

From The Front of Armament
AKA
Powerslave
The only one I can think of is that there was no Aerith shown in the end credits.. what else was destroyed?

If it's the same essay that was posted here a few days ago, then let me tell you, most of it was fluff... Stuff about how beautiful Aerith was, and how important she was in the movie (what has that to do with the LTD?)... A gigantic portion of it was an almost frame-by-frame description of a major chunk of the movie. The points relevant to the discussion were few and far between, and from them, these were knocked off:

1. Cloud leaves the 7th Heaven and runs to Aerith's church because he feels "most at peace" there. This was debunked in other material, but the real reason why he left the 7th is also specifically stated in ACC.

2. Cloud has a picture of a bouquet of flowers (possibly the one Elmyra wanted to send Aerith). I never saw this in AC, but I'm willing to bet my entire Iron Maiden collection it's not in ACC.

3. Aerith giving Cloud the "final push" to defeat Bahamut is hinted to be very important (in supporting the pairing of Aerith and Cloud). Similarly, Zack encouraging Cloud in the battle against Sephiroth must be very important in supporting the the pairing of Cloud and...

Oops.

4. When Sephiroth threatened to take away what Cloud cherished most, the order in which he thought of the people closest to him was important; he thought of his woman (Aerith) first, then his best friend (Zack), and finally, his family (Tifa, Marlene and Denzel) - who weren't as important to him as the first two. Once again, I can't be bothered to pull out my copy of AC to verify if it is true. But if it is, then this order is changed in ACC, and if it was that important then they wouldn't have futzed around with it. According to the logic used in the article, from the new order, Cloud cares about Zack the least - yet it is Zack who gives him the "final push" to defeat Sephiroth.

5. Aerith's face appears on the Loveless ad. I never bothered to verify this, but even if she did, in the light of Crisis Core, it could indicate her waiting for Zack as much as, if not more than, her waiting for Cloud.

6. Aerith is described as being much more vibrant and colorful in the final scene than Zack is, and as lingering "much longer" than Zack did. I cba to check AC, but in ACC, her frigging shoulder "lingers" for about half a second after Zack disappears.

Cloud <3 Aerith's scapula.

Needless to say there's other rubbish in it - such as the wolf denoting Cloud's regret at being unable to save Aerith only, even when it appears in other places (such as at the church, when it could also go to mean that Cloud regrets being unable to protect Tifa and Marlene from Loz). The wolf is also described as fading away slowly in the Forgotten City. IIRC, it disappears rather suddenly as the camera pans behind a tree.

Seriously, whoever wrote this piece of art was not only bending over backwards to find links between Cloud and Aerith, s/he also made stuff up. How is this supposed to convince anyone with half a brain?

As for why Aerith was removed from the credits... I think this one is pretty obvious. Why would they do that? It's simple - when Aerith and Zack left the church, I really think they dissolved into the Lifestream, or whatever. At least, they're not likely to be solidifying in meadows, hanging about waiting for Cloud or whatever. Removing Aerith from the credits is a big move. So why do it? Because her presence was perpetuating the rumor that Cloud was going to meet her in the field of flowers (and screw her - !!), and anyway it doesn't go with the fact that she's finally at peace.

IIRC, neither Aerith nor Zack appeared in any significance in DoC, even though the planet was in horrible danger; I think they've gone, they're resting in peace as is their due. So seriously, if they love Aerith so much, they should just let her go to sleep, instead of torturing her with the ever-present Zack, and having to see Cloud in a relationship with Tifa.

and for some reason I was remembering Zack talking to Cloud or something in AC, but yeah that never happened so forget that...

I know you said forget it, but someone else I know seemed to remember that too - it turns out he remembered the flashback near the beginning of AC where Cloud remembers Zack, when he's replacing the Buster sword after Kadaj knocked it over. :D
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
I know you said forget it, but someone else I know seemed to remember that too - it turns out he remembered the flashback near the beginning of AC where Cloud remembers Zack, when he's replacing the Buster sword after Kadaj knocked it over. :D
With random quotes like "Hey, you alright there?" and maybe "The name's Zack"? I remember that from AC I believe.
 
Seriously, whoever wrote this piece of art was not only bending over backwards to find links between Cloud and Aerith, s/he also made stuff up. How is this supposed to convince anyone with half a brain?
Who said anything about half... [/bad joke]

Why do the NO DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION people almost always end up being C/A shippers?
Because they are butthurt that most of the actual neutrals see Cloti. They want some to and forget that the main definition of a neutral is someone who isn't a shipper. XP

You can't be a neutral in the debate and a shipper, of either couple. If you ship both, or believe it's neither but still ship one, you aren't neutral. Or even if you believe in neither, that doesn't mean neutral. You can see Cloti and be a neutral. You could see Clerith and be a neutral... but these people don't seem to show up very often. I wonder why...
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Cloud is faced with a choice between a relationship built on trust, devotion, understanding, and mutual attraction vs. a relationship built on sex, looks, miscommunication, lies, and problems.
So they admit Cloud and Tifa are having sex? :awesome:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
So they admit Cloud and Tifa are having sex? :awesome:

I thought they were saying Cloud had sex with Aerith, because there's no way his relationship with Tifa is based on 'miscommunication, lies, and problems' though it does sort of fit his brief interactions with Aerith, though more on his end with the lies.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
oooh I get it, thanks for explaining it :monster:
seriously, i fucking love you
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Looking back at 2004, it's hilarious to think how everything that only a rabid Cloti would think could be true about AC and the Cloud/Tifa situation has been proven true. From Cloud and Tifa living together, to her loving Cloud as he is and supporting him, etc. etc. etc. etc.

And yet, some of them still cling to the opposite belief, in the face of all the evidence. Like their insistence of the faux quote 'Cloud is Tifa's ideal love' meaning 'Loves an idealized Cloud' instead of 'Cloud is the ideal'

But then again, what would a lit graduate know of reading comprehension.
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
To get back to the C/A pov for 1 second:

The one thing that bugs me a lot about the Cleris POV is that Cloud's past and inner turmoil and self-blame issues all evaporate or are focused on only one person.
It is a major distortion of not only his character, but essential parts of the story.

It boggles the mind when they ask why Cloud fell into a pit of depression if he had Tifa. Are you kidding? He feels responsible for the death of two of his friends. That's not exactly something you forget when you get yourself a girlfriend. As if that wasn't enough, his son contracts a fatal illness for which he cannot find a cure. Then he gets hit with it too and then he fells REALLY useless.

Is their love for each other going to magically heal all this? Even Disney isn't that delusional. It's not about love or the lack of it. It's about Cloud and his inability to let the past go. It's about Cloud and his fear of failure, everpresent since he was fucking 8.

God, that fuckin mentality annoys the fuck out of me.
 

Neutron Ronnie

From The Front of Armament
AKA
Powerslave
But then again, what would a lit graduate know of reading comprehension.

Obviously, nothing. Forget being a lit graduate; having the smallest atom of common sense renders you unqualified to judge. :D

I would've said that all you needed was a pair of pink glasses, but... pink is the color that links Aerith to Zack. :monster:

Clerith shippers really ought to reconsider using pink as "their" color...
 

Vendel

Banned
To get back to the C/A pov for 1 second:

God, that fuckin mentality annoys the fuck out of me.
I think that is all you had to say. :lol:

One thing that still bothers me. How does the R.P. PoV explain why Cloud after "rejecting" Tifa under the Highwind (in all 3 versions) tell her that he wants to live with her right after the game? Is Cloud really such a prick? "Tifa I will never love you. But I want you to take care of me anyways". And is Tifa such a delusional doormat that she will just agree so she can hopelessly pine over him for the rest of their lives?

That Q is called completely missing the point with a Clerith PoV.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Is their love for each other going to magically heal all this? Even Disney isn't that delusional. It's not about love or the lack of it. It's about Cloud and his inability to let the past go. It's about Cloud and his fear of failure, everpresent since he was fucking 8. .
QFT! Especially the Disney part.

That Q is called completely missing the point with a Clerith PoV.
I've always wanted to ask them about that... if I ever run into one of them on another forum that'll be the first thing I ask them about.
 
I'm pretty sure the Clerii response is that Cloud isn't asking Tifa to live with him, he's saying he can just do everything now on his own. I know, makes no sense, but that's my guess for the answer you'll get.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
To get back to the C/A pov for 1 second:

The one thing that bugs me a lot about the Cleris POV is that Cloud's past and inner turmoil and self-blame issues all evaporate or are focused on only one person.
It is a major distortion of not only his character, but essential parts of the story.

It boggles the mind when they ask why Cloud fell into a pit of depression if he had Tifa. Are you kidding? He feels responsible for the death of two of his friends. That's not exactly something you forget when you get yourself a girlfriend. As if that wasn't enough, his son contracts a fatal illness for which he cannot find a cure. Then he gets hit with it too and then he fells REALLY useless.

Is their love for each other going to magically heal all this? Even Disney isn't that delusional. It's not about love or the lack of it. It's about Cloud and his inability to let the past go. It's about Cloud and his fear of failure, everpresent since he was fucking 8.

God, that fuckin mentality annoys the fuck out of me.

When you make posts like this I really feel like it is Dean Winchester doing the talking. :monster:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I'm pretty sure the Clerii response is that Cloud isn't asking Tifa to live with him, he's saying he can just do everything now on his own. I know, makes no sense, but that's my guess for the answer you'll get.

...Even though he says the reason he will succeed is because this time SHE'S WITH HIM? And that it's in a different way than any way she was with him before?

It makes no sense.
 

Vendel

Banned
So wow. We got a live one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-FQ7y0Hgw
All the same person.

"And any choice you&#65279; have about Clouds feelings end on Disk one of the original game."
Ummm... are you NUTS?
You most certainly do have a say in what Cloud is feeling throughout disks 2 and 3! Just because Aerith dies, it doesn't stop the game from being an RPG. And you can choose to have Cloud show no affection whatsoever to Tifa, making the Highwind scene rather awkward and not romantic in the least.
....................
Lol, don't tell me to research harder and then quote the Crisis Core Ult. I read it, and it's full of inconsistencies and re-worded quotes, so I consider it an invalid source (or at least about as&#65279; valid as the Maiden story, which pretty much made Clerith canon). And it never states anywhere throughout Case of Denzel that he's living with Cloud and Tifa; he mentions them, but he never confirms that he is still staying with them. So I don't know where you're getting that information from.
........................
And this was taken directly from the DoC guide: "After helping Cloud set up his delivery service, Tifa got involved with the displaced youth of Midgar and opened an orphanage. She&#65279; keeps in close contact with Cloud and Barret and remains the steadying force she always was - or at least tried to be. Although she has a small role in this game, she remains as likable as ever and continues to show the traits that always made her such a great friend." She does not live with Cloud, just keeps in touch.
.......................
And the DoC guidebook gives these descriptions about Tifa and Aerith:
Tifa Lockhart, Cloud's childhood friend&#65279; and a master of martial arts.
Aerith Gainsborough, a girl with the blood of the Ancients running through her veins, who Cloud would never forget.
Aerith get more of a description than Tifa, and she's not even in the game. Plus, Tifa is reduced to nothing but a "childhood friend." If she and Cloud had "discovered mutual feelings for eachother," she wouldn't be referred to as only that.
......................
And one last bit of evidence, stated by Nojima in the Reunion Files:
"Although there's a lot to Tifa's character, she's actually very much like any other woman who's been left behind by a man. The director, Nomura, said he wanted to make sure she wasn't a clingy woman, but to portray her as though she's been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily&#65279; detect." She's been left by a man, and emotionally hurt. Does that sound like someone who has had their affections returned?

I don't even know where to begin with something like this.
 
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