So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

Okay so I was thinking (believe it or not, I do it every so often ) and we were talking about whether or not Cleriths miss the point of FFVII and AC/C... this is stuff I'm sure everyone has pointed out before but I'm just collecting my thoughts.

Well what is the point of AC/C? For Cloud to get over his guilt, realize, he IS in fact the hero he wanted to be AND the one Tifa sees him as, and to move on with his life.

Now from the Cloti perspective this all makes sense. We all right know that Tifa thinks Cloud is a hero. It said so in that quote where he's her Knight in Shining Armor.

Just to point out, the 'original' of that quote has never been found so it's not the most reliable, if at all, thing to quote.

To further this, we have Cloud saving both Tifa and Denzel. Even though Aerith made the holy water fall, Cloud is also the one who pours it onto Denzel, curing him. At the end of the movie, Denzel asks who's grave is by the flowers and Cloud said it's where a hero began his journey. OBVIOUSLY talking about himself.

Yes and no. Not JUST himself. The whole living legacy thing again.

So... we have all of the above. Cloud is moving on with his life and all that good stuff.

Now if we take the less extreme Clerith view and assume the plot of the movie is that Cloud misses Aerith and wants to be with her so much that he's ready to die.. well this doesn't make sense.

For one thing, Cloud didn't die, he got back up and fought and it took Tifa to convince him to do so... so.. what happened to being with Aerith? He sure changed his mind quick.

Further, he didn't even want to die before her speech, he just thought he was useless and going to die, which you can see on his face up until he has his breakthrough. Tifa convinces him to try even though he thinks he shall fail.

If we think that Cloud wanted to somehow bring Aerith back, well he failed at that... thus he wouldn't think of himself as a hero in the end.

I think if you think he wanted to bring her back, you've already missed the point.

Or if we think that the plot of the movie is just Cloud wanting forgiveness from Aerith, well he got that in the Forgotten City... plus if that's all he wants, it's not very Clerithy at all. He's forgiven and he moves on ... doesn't sound like he was all that in love.

If we take the extreme Clerith route and at the end of the movie Cloud goes off to see Aerith, I guess he sees himself as a hero because he somehow brought her back... except that he had nothing to do with it. Unless defeating Sephiroth somehow did this, which I guess would make sense. Cloud defeated Sephiroth and now Aerith is able to see him whenever he wants thus he's a hero to himself and Aerith.

Except that makes no bloody sense from a phenominological sense.

The problem with this is you have to ignore the fact that Cloud ever wanted to see himself as a hero because who was the one he wanted to prove he was a hero to? Tifa. Plus what was the point of focusing so much Tifa, Marlene and Denzel if the point of AC/C was Cloud figuring out how to get Aerith back? He focused equally on Zack, but that doesn't mean he was trying to bring him back (or was he? ) Plus the question I'd really want to see answered, if they really wanted to show that him being able to see Aerith whenever... why didn't they show it?

It's the same logic that led them to conclude that since Aerith wasn't in the character list for AC, She was most important.

Why does it have to be implied? Why do us Clotis get all this stuff shoved in our faces while everything Clerith is either implied or hidden and has to be found? Hell why show Aerith with Zack at ALL if Clerith was the intended couple? She could have gone, "Hey you're okay now right?" at the end without Zack being there...

So the point is... this ended up longer than I thought. I dunno maybe I've been spending too much time on the pink forum... but yes you miss the point of AC/C entirely and it makes no sense. That's all I wanted to say, but we've established that but I ranted and now I feel better... thanks

No problem.
BTW, if you're on the pink forum, check out their AC topics from circa 2005, pre movie. Hilarious.

 

[Dashell]

Yes and no. Not JUST himself. The whole living legacy thing again.

Which makes Zack another important deceased one, not just Aerith.

I think if you think he wanted to bring her back, you've already missed the point.

Point taken...

Except that makes no bloody sense from a phenomenological sense.

*hides from big word*
Sephiroth was blocking her will? I dunno...
But of course then you have to wonder what was stopping her after the first time he was defeated... or... he's still in the lifestream isn't he? Can't he still block her?

It's the same logic that led them to conclude that since Aerith wasn't in the character list for AC, She was most important.

She probably wasn't there cause it was a surprise really...

No problem.
BTW, if you're on the pink forum, check out their AC topics from circa 2005, pre movie. Hilarious.

nah I'm good but thanks for the offer

 

[Ryushikaze]

Which makes Zack another important deceased one, not just Aerith.

Which to anyone sane, makes sense.

*hides from big word*
Sephiroth was blocking her will? I dunno...
But of course then you have to wonder what was stopping her after the first time he was defeated... or... he's still in the lifestream isn't he? Can't he still block her?

So then how did she appear to him and the rest of AVALANCHE at the end of FF7, or during AC/C when Sephiroth was still about?

She probably wasn't there cause it was a surprise really...

True, but the whole 'not there = most important' thing is just too hilarious to pass up.
Imagine how important Denzel is in DoC!

nah I'm good but thanks for the offer

Oh, you should. Especially the threads where they insist with every fiber of their being that Cloud lives in an orphanage with 'all the orphans he's taking care of' and not at 7th heaven, and how they know AC 'will follow the game which was totally Clorith.'
Oh, and a butt ton of rage about Tifa and 'CloTi.' And all sorts of great nonsense.

 

[Dashell]

So then how did she appear to him and the rest of AVALANCHE at the end of FF7, or during AC/C when Sephiroth was still about?

Eh I always thought they just knew she was there and we saw her because we're the players. I could be wrong though.

Oh, you should. Especially the threads where they insist with every fiber of their being that Cloud lives in an orphanage with 'all the orphans he's taking care of' and not at 7th heaven, and how they know AC 'will follow the game which was totally Clorith.'

I saw them saying they were tired of seeing Tifa and wanted to see more Aerith... I was kinda like that except I wanted to see more Yuffie! THEY ONLY HAD LIKE TWO FRIGGIN PICS OF HER BEFORE THE MOVIE CAME OUT WTF SQUARE?

They're just lucky they made up for the lack of Yuffie in DoC.

Oh, and a butt ton of rage about Tifa and 'CloTi.' And all sorts of great nonsense.

How much exactly is a butt ton? what is that in butt grams?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I saw them saying they were tired of seeing Tifa and wanted to see more Aerith... I was kinda like that except I wanted to see more Yuffie! THEY ONLY HAD LIKE TWO FRIGGIN PICS OF HER BEFORE THE MOVIE CAME OUT WTF SQUARE?

I hated Yuffie, bitch took my materia. Now if she was a moogle, I'd like her more.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

phenomenological

ugh. Oh God, nightmares from art class on phenomenology. Please dun use that word.

 

[Isabella]

Hell why show Aerith with Zack at ALL if Clerith was the intended couple? She could have gone, "Hey you're okay now right?" at the end without Zack being there...

The whole movie could have been done without Zack being there, if you take the Clerith angle. And you certainly wouldn't end it with 2 shots of Z/A symbolically together.

 

[Dashell]

The whole movie could have been done without Zack being there, if you take the Clerith angle. And you certainly wouldn't end it with 2 shots of Z/A symbolically together.

Well apparently you would because they did

 

[Isabella]

Meaning the director probably wasn't taking the Clerith angle.

 

[Dashell]

Pffft, what does the director know anyway?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Not Clerith I s'pose.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

I see what you mean though, I'm not sure what they think the point of ACC is but they thought the original movie was Clerith so of course they'll think ACC is Clerith. It didn't really change anything.

How can they, though? Many of the (few) "pro-Clerith" points they got from AC were destroyed in ACC...

 

[Dashell]

The only one I can think of is that there was no Aerith shown in the end credits.. what else was destroyed?

 

[Isabella]

The only one I can think of is that there was no Aerith shown in the end credits.. what else was destroyed?

That he can see Aerith because of their unique love connection. Him seeing Zack makes it clear that connection ain't so unique.

He explains why he left 7th Heaven, so they can no longer argue it's to go be with Aerith somewhere.

 

[Dashell]

oh... I see... but.. he all ready saw Zack in the first movie, in the door way when Zack and Aerith left... and for some reason I was remembering Zack talking to Cloud or something in AC, but yeah that never happened so forget that...

 

[Vendel]

Can someone answer me this? Where in CoT or ACC does Cloud say anything like "I just want to see you again Aerith" or "I need you Aerith" or *gasp* "I love you Aerith"?

Also where are the creator statements that talk about how Cloud and Aerith belong together? Or that Cloud is longing for her or anything of that nature?


I'll just sit and wait patiently.

 

[Dashell]

You're gonna be sitting and waiting for a long time

I do seem to remember reading Cloud had a "sense of yearning" during the back to back with Aerith but I can't remember where it was from or even if it was legit...

 

[Ryushikaze]

oh... I see... but.. he all ready saw Zack in the first movie, in the door way when Zack and Aerith left... and for some reason I was remembering Zack talking to Cloud or something in AC, but yeah that never happened so forget that...

No, it was the back to back that was romantic, and Zack could only appear at the end cuz of Aerith.
Come ACC...

And why he left was explained plenty of times. Now though, it's being hammered at them so much they can't spin it away.

And yet, some still try...

 

[Dashell]

It took you 14 minutes to write that?

and they were speaking to his mind, not manifesting or anything... they know this, trust me. As for why he left... yes... it should be obvious now.

 

[Tennyo]

Oh Vendel. Vendel, Vendel, Vendel...

Be careful or you'll rip a whole in the time-space continuum.

 

[Vendel]

Oh Vendel. Vendel, Vendel, Vendel...

Be careful or you'll rip a whole in the time-space continuum.

*hole

Edit: Also I love youtards.

Oksy, as sad as it is, I've actually done a TON of research on the FFVII love triangle. And after reading pretty much every FFVII document known to man and re-playing all of the FFVII games (as well as watching Advent Children again) my final concusion is: THERE IS NO DEFINITEIVE CONCLUSION. The makers of the game have repeatedly stated that they left the true nature of Cloud's feelings up to the gamers to decide. There are plenty of reasons to argue for both of the pairings.
....................
And Iam, Cloud and Tifa WERE NOT living together/raising children together for four years after FFVII. I confirmed this after reading a multitude of official documents and interviews. Tifa and Cloud were taking care of Marlene in Barret's stead, but Marlene obviously still considers Barret as her father. Denzel came into the mix later only because Cloud thought AERITH had led Denzel to him. And it was stated that by the time of DoC, Tifa was "keeping in touch" with Cloud, not living with him.

My response? Research harder.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It took you 14 minutes to write that?

and they were speaking to his mind, not manifesting or anything... they know this, trust me. As for why he left... yes... it should be obvious now.

No. It took me two minutes, ten to run the devil gate trials in Ookami, and another few to remember I didn't hit send.

Researching slightly harder- in that I looked at the front page awhile back-
CCU- After FF7, Cloud and Tifa began living together. After a short time apart, they again reached a communion and lived together through DoC and beyond.
CoD- Cloud and Tifa are referred to in the same breath by Denzel, the kid Aerith brought to BOTH OF THEM as far as they are concerned.
CoT- Marlene will be a good kid 'to this family' as in Cloud and Tifa are foster parents while Adoptive poppa is off on his quest.
Research AT ALL, youtard.

 

[Tennyo]

*hole

Oops. Looks like I should going to sleep now. XD

 

[Vendel]

Oops. Looks like I should going to sleep now. XD

should BE going to sleep.....

 

[Isabella]

Why do the NO DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION people almost always end up being C/A shippers?