So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Dashell]

But CC and somewhat of a chunk of AC is on their side.

When? And I don't want to hear anything about interpretations.

plz, kthx

 

[I Am Not Me]

I think she's talking about Cloti, Quexi.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Words cannot express how cool this thread beacme with Squall_of_SeeD coming out of hiding.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes they have rebuttals for every point. But they tend to ignore the narrative as a whole. And worse yet they contradict established facts that can't simply brushed aside.

And they often contradict each other.

Sure as has been said. Talking about Cloud and Tifa being together could be talking about location. But when combined with the larger context of wearing of pants and such. It begins to stretch the bounds of logic (or breaks them unceremoniously).

Even without the rest, it tends to go against the common assumption of 'be together' regarding a man and a woman, especially with kids.
Much like, to get back to the anonymous Clerith- any chance of them ceasing to be anonymous, BTW?- how Cloud smiling in response to 'she brought him to us' would in general be take as a sign that he agrees.

 

[paoo]

A question, why can't we make a "Cloti Book" with all the evidence they got? Then we can just send all the misleaded Cleriths to that Book/Website and they can read it.

Edit: I told a Clerith to look at this site, on the Ultimania. And she did, and all she said was:

"This site is clearly fanmade."

Spoiler

 

[Ryushikaze]

And Clerith.com isn't?

At least the Ultimanias are official documents.

 

[I Am Not Me]

A question, why can't we make a "Cloti Book" with all the evidence they got? Then we can just send all the misleaded Cleriths to that Book/Website and they can read it.

Do you really think they're gonna read it? I have a feeling they'll just look at the URL, claim to have read it, and say "This is all wrong. STFU."

Edit: I told a Clerith to look at this site, on the Ultimania. And she did, and all she said was:

"This site is clearly fanmade."

And Clerith.com isn't?

Fans and worshipers are two different things, Daddy.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Do you really think they're gonna read it? I have a feeling they'll just look at the URL, claim to have read it, and say "This is all wrong. STFU."

Hey, they can hand down edicts on games they've never played and know nothing about. Websites are just another facet of their judgement without consideration habits.

Fans and worshipers are two different things, Daddy.

A true enough point, Shortstack, but not one that resolves in their favor.

 

[Fighter]

A question, why can't we make a "Cloti Book" with all the evidence they got? Then we can just send all the misleaded Cleriths to that Book/Website and they can read it.

Edit: I told a Clerith to look at this site, on the Ultimania. And she did, and all she said was:

"This site is clearly fanmade."

I'd say it's not worth dealing with people who wont even take the time and see the difference between fanmade claims and quotes from official sources.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

To be fair, you don't have to play a game to "get it", thanks to the internet you can still know a lot about it without playing it yourself.

When I started my Dissidia fanfic I hadn't played FFX, but I had read the game script and watched YouTube clips of the cutscenes to get a sense of what type of characters Jecht and Tidus were. And my impression just from watching and reading about the game turned out more or less accurate once I played the game myself.

EDIT - Just because my views have changed, :p.

"Look, I, I'm proud to be a Clerith. But I'm a Clerith in the real world. In today's world! It's time for you all to do that, too. It is time... for change."

 

[Kikyou]

Aerith had a desire to meet the real Cloud, but I don't find that to be in a romantic sense. Aerith makes it very clear that she separates the two, but does that mean she's giving Zack up for Cloud, just because she cares for Cloud and wants to meet him? Of course not, in fact, I find that that idea is a bit silly. She doesn't even know this man and yet, people insist that her wanting to meet him is out of a romantic desire. Shouldn't a friendship be formed first? I believe that some of the real Cloud was there, trapped- but there. This Cloud however, could rarely respond. (Notice that the real Cloud tries communicating with the fake- "What are you doing at a place like this?" etc) I think like Zee said a long time ago- it's like Cloud is watching his world go by but can't say or do anything about it. I think he remembers Aerith for the kind and loving person she was, and I do think she reached the real Cloud. Just not enough for it to form a stable, solid relationship.

Haha, I love the KH games myself, actually.

Haven't read an Ultimania, and I didn't play Crisis Core so I can't provide an adequate response. I don't ever recall referring to the whole, "I want to meet you." To me, it's not so much as a love confession, but a relationship upgrade in a way, because they sort things out and that she was ready to try and love the other sides of him that she doesn't know of yet. And about friendship forming, I think they already were at friendship status at that point, but in the stages of moving to something more. It's not hard to believe, since AVALANCHE clicked pretty well in a short amount of time. Well, from what I saw anyway. And I didn't think of it that possibility, that the real Cloud being trapped like that. Its an interesting perspective, but somehow it just visualizes in my head as possession. Y'know, like a ghost possessing someone else's body and doing whatever they want. But it wasn't like it was a completely different person, still some of the old Cloud in there with muddled memories. Then again... as to the extent of how much he acted like Zack, I'll reserve that for when I get a console and the game...

Cool, so what do you think of Birth by Sleep?

So M-Mira, are you saying that you prefer Cloud/Aerith, but accept the fact that Cloud/Tifa maybe canon as stated by the creators?

Well, I'm a sucker for tragic relationships, so my OTP is ZxAxC. 8D

I think CxA was canon in FF7. As much as Lulu and Chappu were canon prior to FFX before y'know, he died. It seems from what you guys are saying, that the creators of FF7 have stated in Ultimanias, w/e they are, (I'm assume it is a magazine section?) that the compilation ends with CxT as the ending canon couple? Kind of like how Lulu and Wakka marry in FFX-2, as much as I detest that pairing. Or when J.K. Rowling straight up tells people who have interviewed her, the canon in her books, is HG and HrR. And if that's true, then yeah, I can accept that. It isn't the first time my preferred couple didn't end canon. So I won't boohoo or suddenly hate FF7, I've grown up past that, imo. (I think Tidus with Lulu or Rikku is more interesting than Yuna anyway. 8D)

Just curious though, a question for all you guys who prefer CloTi, what moment in game or in the compilation, when did you think they shared a reciprocated love? Childhood, highwind scene, AC, etc.etc.etc.? I'm interested in knowing.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Haven't read an Ultimania, and I didn't play Crisis Core so I can't provide an adequate response. I don't ever recall referring to the whole, "I want to meet you." To me, it's not so much as a love confession, but a relationship upgrade in a way, because they sort things out and that she was ready to try and love the other sides of him that she doesn't know of yet.

I don't know if I'd call it a relationship upgrade. On Aerith's side, it's definite;y a turning point. She's sorted through her feelings an is finally ready to move on, and she wants to do that with Cloud.

Cloud just doesn't know what the hell's going on. He's all "Huh? What? Okay." the whole time.

 

[Frostwave]

Just curious though, a question for all you guys who prefer CloTi, what moment in game or in the compilation, when did you think they shared a reciprocated love? Childhood, highwind scene, AC, etc.etc.etc.? I'm interested in knowing.

I think that they had feelings for each other since they were 13 and 14 in Nibelheim, but that the confession happened in the Lifestream, and was acted upon in the Highwind scene. Then there are cute and not-so-cute couple moments in CoT and ACC.

 

[Isabella]

What Frostwave said. The feelings were always there, they were just buried due to Cloud's psychosis. The Lifestream scene brought them back to the surface, and they were acted upon in the Highwind scene.

And it's not that I prefer Cloti. It's just what's obvious to me.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Haven't read an Ultimania, and I didn't play Crisis Core so I can't provide an adequate response. I don't ever recall referring to the whole, "I want to meet you." To me, it's not so much as a love confession, but a relationship upgrade in a way, because they sort things out and that she was ready to try and love the other sides of him that she doesn't know of yet. And about friendship forming, I think they already were at friendship status at that point, but in the stages of moving to something more. It's not hard to believe, since AVALANCHE clicked pretty well in a short amount of time. Well, from what I saw anyway. And I didn't think of it that possibility, that the real Cloud being trapped like that. Its an interesting perspective, but somehow it just visualizes in my head as possession. Y'know, like a ghost possessing someone else's body and doing whatever they want. But it wasn't like it was a completely different person, still some of the old Cloud in there with muddled memories. Then again... as to the extent of how much he acted like Zack, I'll reserve that for when I get a console and the game...

You should really check out our front page. Specifically, here.

Well, I'm a sucker for tragic relationships, so my OTP is ZxAxC. 8D

I think CxA was canon in FF7. As much as Lulu and Chappu were canon prior to FFX before y'know, he died. It seems from what you guys are saying, that the creators of FF7 have stated in Ultimanias, w/e they are, (I'm assume it is a magazine section?) that the compilation ends with CxT as the ending canon couple? Kind of like how Lulu and Wakka marry in FFX-2, as much as I detest that pairing. Or when J.K. Rowling straight up tells people who have interviewed her, the canon in her books, is HG and HrR. And if that's true, then yeah, I can accept that. It isn't the first time my preferred couple didn't end canon. So I won't boohoo or suddenly hate FF7, I've grown up past that, imo. (I think Tidus with Lulu or Rikku is more interesting than Yuna anyway. 8D)

That's kinda what we're saying, yeah. Nojima defines Cloud/Aerith by sayings this:

Perhaps things would have gone well with Aerith, but Aerith's burden is big, I think.

Cloud and Aerith's time was short, and while they did hit it off, and were getting close, they never actually made it there yet, for obvious and not so obvious reasons. The obvious reason being her death. The not so obvious reason being Cloud's persona not being his own during their time together. Cloud/Aerith is a hypothetical according to Nojima. Unrealized.

And an Ultimania is a game guide which is published by S-E with commentary and interviews from the creators. A lot of S-E games have them. Including Kingdom Hearts.

Just curious though, a question for all you guys who prefer CloTi, what moment in game or in the compilation, when did you think they shared a reciprocated love? Childhood, highwind scene, AC, etc.etc.etc.? I'm interested in knowing.

Well, childhood probably. And of course the Highwind scene. I'd say the Lifestream event was also a very intimate time between the two of them as well.

Anyways you're another one of the better, more open minded C/A fans who've come here and debated so kudos to you!

 

[Ryushikaze]

To be fair, you don't have to play a game to "get it", thanks to the internet you can still know a lot about it without playing it yourself.

Hence my addition of 'and know nothing about'
I've seen a lot of wallbangery statements from the rogue's gallery that goes to show how little information they're getting/ parsing before passing down judgement.

When I started my Dissidia fanfic I hadn't played FFX, but I had read the game script and watched YouTube clips of the cutscenes to get a sense of what type of characters Jecht and Tidus were. And my impression just from watching and reading about the game turned out more or less accurate once I played the game myself.

But you see, there, you're getting at least a major portion of the story more or less first hand. Such is not the case elsewhere.

Just curious though, a question for all you guys who prefer CloTi, what moment in game or in the compilation, when did you think they shared a reciprocated love? Childhood, highwind scene, AC, etc.etc.etc.? I'm interested in knowing.

'Prefer' has a particular ring to it I don't care for. Only 'A' pairing I prefer is Cec/Ros. All the others I just observe as being canon or not even if I like them. It's the story not the expectations, natch.
But to actually answer the question, it depends.
In childhood, they both had unvoiced feelings for each other, so while there was reciprocity of feelings, there was nothing that came of it. Similarly through his time as headmuddled ZaCloud, he liked her, but it was buried and confused by a lot of bollocks, and he was oblivious to her intentions.
In the Lifestream, they both become AWARE of the feelings the other holds, but I would say it is truly underneath the Highwind where they truly move into the reciprocated love situation.

And that, the seven plus years of unspoken emotion finally cresting the surface, along with the stress of it possibly being their last time alone together before they died either at the hand of Sephiroth or by the impact of Meteor, is why I think it is quite likely that Cloud and Tifa had sex that night.

Additionally, "Pointy rocks my Thorsmote ass." Thank you, that is all.

 

[Celes Chere]

why can't we make a "Cloti Book" with all the evidence they got?

Because we have lives. That and we have all the evidence we need stored up in that magical thing called a brain. =D

Haven't read an Ultimania, and I didn't play Crisis Core so I can't provide an adequate response. I don't ever recall referring to the whole, "I want to meet you." To me, it's not so much as a love confession, but a relationship upgrade in a way, because they sort things out and that she was ready to try and love the other sides of him that she doesn't know of yet.

Ah, well that's fine. And I wouldn't say they sorted things out because Cloud didn't understand what she was talking about at all. In fact, it's he who tells Tifa he is glad that she could meet him again, and that they should return home together during the LS scene.

Y'know, like a ghost possessing someone else's body and doing whatever they want. But it wasn't like it was a completely different person, still some of the old Cloud in there with muddled memories. Then again... as to the extent of how much he acted like Zack, I'll reserve that for when I get a console and the game...

Well, I didn't mean it quite like that, but I do see what you mean and I do agree. Cloud was there, but I believe it was very dimly so. A lot of Cloud was lost, and had to be found. We see just how messed up Cloud is during the point where Tifa helps him realize his true self in the Lifestream. I know you haven't read the Ultimanias, but you should read the Cloud and Zack sections at least. =) It tells a lot about Cloud's personality, and Zack's effect on him.

Cool, so what do you think of Birth by Sleep?

I think it looks like shit, to be honest. I'm going to give it a fair chance of course, but I'm not wasting my money on it until I know that the characters aren't Mary Sue piles of crap for sure. -coughXioncough-

 

[Makoeyes987]

LOL if you knew who Xion was you'd never call her a Mary Sue. At all. Just..lol. People are gonna be in for a helluva plot when that game comes out here.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I know the secret Mako, and I agree with you. Xion's gonna spin some people around. :p

 

[Celes Chere]

What? I want spoilers! Someone PM and tell me!

She's secretly a man, isn't she? I KNEW IT.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What? I want spoilers! Someone PM and tell me!

She's secretly a man, isn't she? I KNEW IT.

It's seriously something you should play for yourself and see.

358/2 renewed my faith in the Kingdom Hearts franchise. That's all I'll say.

 

[Celes Chere]

Damn you Mako...

Draaake.

 

[Kikyou]

'Prefer' has a particular ring to it I don't care for. Only 'A' pairing I prefer is Cec/Ros. All the others I just observe as being canon or not even if I like them. It's the story not the expectations, natch.

I used the word prefer, because I was asking people who like the pairing. But those of you who like CloTi as a pairing and those of you who don't, thanks for thoroughly answering my question. I didn't really think of some of things 'til you guys brought it up. The reasoning behind the highwind scene and sex makes more sense now.

About Xion... I got spoiled about Xion before I even heard of Birth by Sleep. =_=

 

[Dashell]

I must be missing something about Xion, because I heard....

Spoiler

she's like a copy of Sora

and I thought it was stupid... is there more to her than that?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I must be missing something about Xion, because I heard....

Spoiler

she's like a copy of Sora

and I thought it was stupid... is there more to her than that?

You heard right, but there's a lot more to it than that.

U want spoilerz?