So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Dashell]

It's not written past tense, no. There'd need to be a "deshita" at the end of the sentence for that.

I'm not sure if he's saying he doesn't mean to go into those views during the interview itself, or if he's saying it in an ongoing sense (such as "I don't mean to go into this stuff the way I do"). I'm pretty sure it's the ongoing sense, though, given that 1) the interview came just as the revised Case of Tifa was being released, and at the time of ACC, 2) that he makes the comment about Denzel and Marlene right after anyway, and 3) that he talks about Aerith in the same context a moment later.

Either way, he keeps doing it.

What do you think?

I'd say you're right about the ongoing sense. I always assumed it was "I don't mean to keep going into my views on this but I do" type stuff. Even if he meant just the interview though, the fact that Cloud and Tifa are mentioned and that's the first thing that comes to his mind, says a lot.

 

[Frostwave]

Crator? That some kinda creature? XD

Yeah, I think I remember something like that from Thundercats!!!

Anyway, AMEN! Even though we got nowhere last time at the NC, it was still fun.

Hey, red is pink gaiz! I swear!!

 

[Isabella]

What do you think?

I tend to agree. I just wanted to see if the text gave any further clues.

Now, I'll throw out a question: In CoT, when Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her ... am I the only one who thinks he genuinely didn't hear the question?

I ask because I see things that confuse me from both sides of the debate. I see Cleriths say, "why didn't he answer if he supposedly loves her?" I see Clotis say, "When he says he loves Marlene, he's really answering the first question, that he loves Tifa." And here I just take it at face value -- that Tifa's voice woke him up and he didn't comprehend the question at all! That would be my case, anyway. If I'm asleep I may hear a voice but not process what it's saying until I'm fully awake.

 

[Frostwave]

Quexi, did you delete a post?

 

[Dashell]

Quexi, did you delete a post?

Dammit, sorry see I was going to post it here, then thought, "Nah I'll just PM" and I meant to hit preview to make sure I formatted it right I and i hit "Send" by accident, so I quickly deleted it but I guess you saw it

Yeah they say they'll open TNC if Tres asks them to... *crosses fingers*

Now, I'll throw out a question: In CoT, when Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her ... am I the only one who thinks he genuinely didn't hear the question?

Tell you what, I'll go into Rob's room right now with a camera and say "rob do you love me?" and he'll wake up and be all "What? Huh?" like he always is, then I'll say "Do you love Lucy?" and we'll gauge his reaction...



I'm not really gonna do it BTW but it would be funny.

 

[Frostwave]

I tend to agree. I just wanted to see if the text gave any further clues.

Now, I'll throw out a question: In CoT, when Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her ... am I the only one who thinks he genuinely didn't hear the question?

I ask because I see things that confuse me from both sides of the debate. I see Cleriths say, "why didn't he answer if he supposedly loves her?" I see Clotis say, "When he says he loves Marlene, he's really answering the first question, that he loves Tifa." And here I just take it at face value -- that Tifa's voice woke him up and he didn't comprehend the question at all! That would be my case, anyway. If I'm asleep I may hear a voice but not process what it's saying until I'm fully awake.

When I read CoT I thought the same thing. That Tifa's voice woke him up, and he didn't hear her question. And Tifa asked it knowing he was asleep and unconscious.

Tell you what, I'll go into Rob's room right now with a camera and say "rob do you love me?" and he'll wake up and be all "What? Huh?" like he always is, then I'll say "Do you love Lucy?" and we'll gauge his reaction...

LOL. Oh, I wish I could see that.

 

[Isabella]

Well good, glad I'm not crazy.

 

[Dashell]

Hey guys... what if Nojima was saying "Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith..." not as a love partner but just saying "Maybe things would have been better if she hadn't died." and that things would have gone well for Cloud and Tifa if Aerith had lived because then there wouldn't be a burden from her?

Is that possible?

 

[Isabella]

If I read TresDias' post right, the burden is Aerith's, not that she herself is the burden. Aerith has a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, which could've hampered a potential relationship with Cloud.

 

[Splintered]

If I read TresDias' post right, the burden is Aerith's, not that she herself is the burden. Aerith has a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, which could've hampered a potential relationship with Cloud.

That's the way I read it. I mean, the whole thing really sounds like saying

"CloudxAerith? Maybe... maybe not."

 

[Vendel]

To say nothing of the lack of any basic ameneties, such as a clock, dresser, or anything but the cot and the desk. That's not a room to live in, that's a room to pass out in. Cloud's toiletries, clothes, etc. must be elsewhere.

Also the room is ALWAYS called Cloud's office.

And do I really need to bust out the visual aids again to show how Tifa and Cloud not sharing a bed makes the "do you love me" scene very creepy?

 

[Ryushikaze]

I didn't to make it look like she meant that
I was just asking, I just quoted her post to show that I wasn't just throwing the question in here out of no where.

Well, I know one person who hates you...but not really hates. Its more...annoyed. She's doesn't like how you type and the fact that you are {said by her} "rude".

Does she also think my vocabulary is 'stupid?'

Now, when I...spied there, I actually sometimes saw Anastar saying she doesn't hate you. I don't know about FFG, though. But I understand the long fight you guys have had for years.

Well, I didn't think everyone hated me, just a few.

But sex doesn't signify love in anyway; people can be used and are used sexually. All the time.

Well, yes, but the opposite is in fact true- people express their love through physical intimacy in addition to other methods.

People believe it shows love when in a couple, when it does. Whatever created us, created Vaginas and well, you know, to reproduce. That creator {I'll call it Wind} created us to reproduce, but gave us love something we can hold on it.

You can also say Penis, Hatter.

~~~~Wind never thought we would have sex whenever we wanted, and most of the time they are protected, stopping the child making.

Yes, people in couples have sex to "show" they love each other, even though it doesn't show anything at all. Just that they are horny.

Except that, to them, it DOES mean more than that they're horny.

And there are those of us who reject the concept of a creator or a 'given purpose' to begin with. The modern ToE explains it all quite well, but that's a topic for the debate subforum.

I tend to agree. I just wanted to see if the text gave any further clues.

Now, I'll throw out a question: In CoT, when Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her ... am I the only one who thinks he genuinely didn't hear the question?

I ask because I see things that confuse me from both sides of the debate. I see Cleriths say, "why didn't he answer if he supposedly loves her?" I see Clotis say, "When he says he loves Marlene, he's really answering the first question, that he loves Tifa." And here I just take it at face value -- that Tifa's voice woke him up and he didn't comprehend the question at all! That would be my case, anyway. If I'm asleep I may hear a voice but not process what it's saying until I'm fully awake.

In Japanese, the question is formatted so that the object of the question would come first, then the 'do you love' would follow, so he could only hear half of the question. So yes, it's entirely possible that he simply did not hear the question.

 

[Dashell]

If I read TresDias' post right, the burden is Aerith's, not that she herself is the burden. Aerith has a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, which could've hampered a potential relationship with Cloud.

OH, I get it... but... what burden would she have if she all ready saved the planet? Being the last Cetra?

 

[Ryushikaze]

OH, I get it... but... what burden would she have if she all ready saved the planet? Being the last Cetra?

That, plus it could also refer to her emotional hangups that would keep it from going well, too.

 

[Dashell]

I think I need to revise my essay, thanks

 

[Frostwave]

And do I really need to bust out the visual aids again to show how Tifa and Cloud not sharing a bed makes the "do you love me" scene very creepy?

I wouldn't mind seeing it again.

 

[Tennyo]

Now, I'll throw out a question: In CoT, when Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her ... am I the only one who thinks he genuinely didn't hear the question?

I ask because I see things that confuse me from both sides of the debate. I see Cleriths say, "why didn't he answer if he supposedly loves her?" I see Clotis say, "When he says he loves Marlene, he's really answering the first question, that he loves Tifa." And here I just take it at face value -- that Tifa's voice woke him up and he didn't comprehend the question at all! That would be my case, anyway. If I'm asleep I may hear a voice but not process what it's saying until I'm fully awake.

This is what I always thought when I first read it. It's not until it got all brought up in debates that I heard other interpretations of it. But it would make sense. lol

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Didn't they all {each players "crystal"} switch sizes? I mean, look at the Magicite. It wasn't suppose to be that huge. So it could in all, be Aerith/Aeris' orby-thing.

Well, Tidus' sphere is the same size as those in his game, so not all of them changed size. I think WoL's and Cecil's may have also been the same size.

And, really, Cloud's crystal is the right size to be any materia but the White or Black Materias. Well, not the Goddess Materia either, of course, but all the rest of them.

If I read TresDias' post right, the burden is Aerith's, not that she herself is the burden. Aerith has a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, which could've hampered a potential relationship with Cloud.

You read it right.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well, Tidus' sphere is the same size as those in his game, so not all of them changed size. I think WoL's and Cecil's may have also been the same size.

And, really, Cloud's crystal is the right size to be any materia but the White or Black Materias. Well, not the Goddess Materia either, of course, but all the rest of them.

WoL's is the appropriate size for their handheld crystals.
Firi's is IIRC, the right size- we've never seen a full sized Crystal.
Onion's is shrunk.
Cecil's is shrunk, but by how much depends on the version in particular.
Bartz's is of appropriate size.
Terra's is also of appropriate size for the Magicite we've seen.
Squall's... Yeah. No clue what it is, but it's certainly not an expanded version of anything we know.
Zidane's is shrunk considerably.
Tidus is of appropriate size.

None of the other crystals are 'expanded' in any way shape or form, so why the fuck would Cloud's be an expanded version of something when none of the others are?
Which is to say nothing about how it fails to look like the white materia in other regards.

 

[Dashell]

Squall's... Yeah. No clue what it is, but it's certainly not an expanded version of anything we know.

I don't know why, but that was really funny.

Just wanted to point something out on the materia dealeo.

And, really, Cloud's crystal is the right size to be any materia but the White or Black Materias

Isn't it about the right size for Black Materia?

It's not the right color but, it's the right size... isn't it? Maybe a TINY bit bigger but... I think if either of the two was correct, it'd be closer to black materia than white.

Yeah it's waaay too tiny to be the right materia.

... this looks kinda small too actually.

I think Cloud has the black materia guys

Edit:
lol Random Clerith:

Honestly, why do you want to bring up things that "could" happen in a fictional work or IRL when discussing a fantasy game? No one wants a couple around who argue all the time and need two kids there to help them "work things out". People want to see real love, real understanding.

Apparently Full House and the Brady Bunch are shining examples of how Final Fantasy relationships should work out...

 

[Isabella]

No one wants a couple around who argue all the time and need two kids there to help them "work things out". People want to see real love, real understanding.

I really should go to bed, but this quote bugs me a bit. Cloud and Tifa don't argue all the time. How many arguments do we see them having? One or two? For a lot of CoT they're getting along just fine and have silly little conversations (which could easily mean the silly babble that two romantic partners have when they're alone). Cloud and Tifa both have trouble opening up when something is bothering them, so when Cloud has his crisis it's a challenge for both of them to overcome. But the thing is, they do overcome it and are still together two years later. I just don't see two people who are constantly at each other's throats the way that quote describes.

As for "real love, real understanding," isn't everything each of them does essentially for the sake of the other? Isn't everything Cloud does in ACC essentially about protecting Tifa and the children? Isn't everything Tifa does about understanding Cloud's problem and being there for him?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Honestly, why do you want to bring up things that "could" happen in a fictional work or IRL when discussing a fantasy game? No one wants a couple around who argue all the time and need two kids there to help them "work things out". People want to see real love, real understanding.

Sister, I don't know where you're from, but that sounds fairly Real to me. Couples argue. Couples need help sometimes. REAL love, and REAL understanding DON'T HAPPEN WITHOUT HARDSHIP. What you want, my unnamed spouter of nonsense, is FAIRY TALE love and understanding. The type so insipid and mindless that EVEN DISNEY MADE FUN OF IT.
Also, nice distortion. Never has it been said they fight 'all the time', even when they were at their most strained.

 

[Dashell]

BUT IT'S FINAL FANTASY YOU GUYS! FANTASY!!! REAL COUPLES DON'T FIGHT IN A FANTASY! Look at Lulu and Wak-..err.. wait bad example .. uhm... CId and Sher... uhm... uhh... wait okay okay I got it, I got it! Nooj and Leblanc!

 

[Isabella]

How many Final Fantasy couples are shown in the stage Cloud and Tifa are in? Several years together, raising a couple of kids, operating two businesses together? Most couples are shown in the rush of first love.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Isn't it about the right size for Black Materia?

It's not the right color but, it's the right size... isn't it?

Ah, yeah, you are right.

WoL's is the appropriate size for their handheld crystals.
Firi's is IIRC, the right size- we've never seen a full sized Crystal.
Onion's is shrunk.
Cecil's is shrunk, but by how much depends on the version in particular.
Bartz's is of appropriate size.
Terra's is also of appropriate size for the Magicite we've seen.
Squall's... Yeah. No clue what it is, but it's certainly not an expanded version of anything we know.
Zidane's is shrunk considerably.
Tidus is of appropriate size.

None of the other crystals are 'expanded' in any way shape or form, so why the fuck would Cloud's be an expanded version of something when none of the others are?
Which is to say nothing about how it fails to look like the white materia in other regards.

Thanks for the more in-depth look at it.