So where do we stand on the big remake mystery now?

[JBedford]

The リバース / Rebirth / Reverse thing is how Bizarro Sephiroth got his English name. Rebirth Sephiroth > Reverse Sephiroth > Bizarro Sephiroth.

It's why of the "re" candidates for Part 3, "Reverse" seems unlikely because it would confuse Japanese audiences. But with SE/Nomura you never know.

 

[Eerie]

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/202207070001/

Super interesting.

So the devs are still yelling that the story is the same. This makes me wonder if what we see with Zack in the trailer is a big delusion from Cloud? I mean, one of the things I think is how they tackle their script errors from the OG - what I consider as errors, as they lead fans to misunderstand some part of the story, ie Tifa's relationship with Cloud, Zack being hidden and basically you can totally miss his story when it's so important. So, IMHO, they want us to know about Zack this time around, to be sure we won't miss him. To know his story and why he's so damn important to Cloud - and Aerith!

Because, I still don't think it's possible for the story to go on if Zack was still alive?

 

[Makoeyes987]

If I'm reading this right, we're possibly seeing Genesis in Rebirth? Not to confirm that, but my take is that Nomura is asked if Genesis will play a role in the future and he says yes. o.O

Not sure where you got that from. Literally says nothing of the sort and actually the opposite in terms of the direction of the series. Here's a translation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545076794465800192

Is Rebirth going to have a different story then OG?

Nomura: the core of the story hasn't change. We threw in new mystery so the old fans can also be entertained
People might think we changed or deleted something, but we just chop things up because it's now a trilogy, there may be changes in the order of things happen, but we basically made the game with nothing deleted.

I thought there will be new story (CCFF7R) added in as a surprise

Nomura:
Instead of saying we change nothing for a reason, I should say if we change it then the Remake Project would loose it's meaning
Remake Project will keep it's the mystery going, players who stick around till the end will understand the truth of what's going on
We didn't make CC FF7R because we want to change the past.

In other words, even FF7 Remake Project has shown us something different, everything leading up to that moment still hasn't changed

Nomura:
That's right. We want people to feel weird, to have questions.
Like why would Zack and Cloud both be at Midgar from the Rebirth trailer. If you play Rebirth, many of those questions will be answered.

So yeah. I don't know how much more clearer they can get. A year out from release now. With it finalized in terms of structure and intent. They've even spoken to direction of its end point. This is FFVII. Not a sequel.

 

[Roundhouse]

Eerie, if Zack being alive is a delusion, then the church scene needs to be solved, because Cloud isn't in that one...

 

[Eerie]

I mean a lot of people thought it meant Zack was alive and the other half that he was dead from that scene alone ^^'

Edit: on Famitsu, Nomura confirmed big maps I expected this so I'm happy!

 

[waw]

Not sure where you got that from. Literally says nothing of the sort and actually the opposite in terms of the direction of the series. Here's a translation.

Literally this part:

――今のこの時期に「CC FFVII R」を出そうとしていることについて、どうしても「FFVII リバース」との関係性を考えてしまうのですが、「FFVII リメイク」でもディープグラウンドらしきものが出てきたりしました。今後例えば「FFVII リバース」でプロジェクトジェネシスなどが関わってくるような可能性もあるのでしょうか？

北瀬氏：確かに「FFVII リメイク」で「DC FFVII」のヴァイスが出てきたように、過去のスピンオフの設定や、キャラクターに一部の要素が肉付けとして加わることはあるのですが、基本的には先程も野村が申し上げた通り、原作の「FFVII」のストーリーを尊重しながら進んでいく状態になるかと。ユーザーさんが「あれ、設定そのものがすごく変わったね」と感じるようなことにはならないラインを攻めているつもりです。

ただ「リバース」や残りの最後の1作品含めて、まだこれからの作品なので、どうなるかは想像していただければとも思います。

Kitase is asked if "Project Genesis" will have a role in the future of Rebirth. Kitase says yes. I'll let another Japanese reader confirm as they jump from game to game a lot here.

 

[Eerie]

Kitase doesn't say yes outright:

Kitase: It's true that some elements of the past spin-off settings and characters will be added as fleshing out elements, like the appearance of Vice from DC FFVII in FFVII Remake, but basically, as Nomura mentioned earlier, the story of the original FFVII will be respected as we move forward. I think it's going to be a state of progression. We're trying to avoid the users feeling that 'Oh, the setting itself has changed a lot'.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

I think project Genesis might be too big, we might see cameos but that's as far as it's going to be, IMHO, just like in Remake we saw cameos for Deepground.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a reference to Deepground and it's characters. Meaning yes, we could see more Deepground or other Compilation characters in the future. Which, they've always said was a possibility.

But they aren't changing the fundamental story of FFVII and they're only incorporating characters where appropriate. Kitase defers to Nomura's explanation and summation that the progression and direction of the Remake project will follow the original.

Meaning there's no time traveling Genesis suddenly turning into the main antagonist of the story or becoming a new party member or whatever, lol

 

[Roundhouse]

I thought they already changed important things in the story? I guess it depends on how big a change needs to be for them to define it as a significant one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I went over this before, but its simply "recontextualization."

Yes. Cloud "remembering" Zack is an "important thing" that's been changed. But how that change is contextualized within the whole story of FFVII-R... Is an important aspect in assessing that change.

Are they making that change to completely deviate from the entire original story, or are they making that change to re-examine, re-explore, and re-visit a core theme of the story from a new perspective to make it fresh and less of rote retreading of the plot we know already?

This is what I meant when I said that there can be changes and recontextualizations of elements of the story, but they ultimately explore the same core themes and lead to the same narrative conclusions. This isn't about fundamentally telling a brand new story.

How Zack is present in this story is going to be interesting and different but make no mistake.

The core themes and ultimate conclusion of FFVII are not being deviated from, even if there's new elements and even a wraparound story to embellish it all. It will be the mystery and journey that differentiates the Remake from the rest.

 

[Kain424]

I like that he says experiencing the games in release order is preferable, but one can also enter into the game at Rebirth and be just fine. I have a save file just outside of Midgar in my copy of the original game, simply because I've gotten to the point where Midgar feels like a bit of a chore anymore. So this makes me very happy.

 

[Kain424]

Also, best and most relevant part:

 

[Odysseus]

Basically admitting Cloud's identity crisis is old hat, so they're taking a new spin on it. That'd explain how blasé they've been about it, with stuff like "you weren't in SOLDIER", Cloud remembering being experimented on, and now him seemingly remembering Zack. I've got to assume alive!Zack will play into the new take on things.

 

[Roundhouse]

It looks like it's finally time to accept that the main story will be the same. The devs have repeated it too much at this point. In that case Zack is either in an alt line or he is in the normal one but will be kept away from Cloud until Cloud's identity arc is over. I can't see the story holding like in the og if they don't do this.

 

[cold_spirit]

Interesting that Nomura states the Remake Project's mysteries won't unravel until we reach the end. Let the speculation continue...

Considering the two most popular theories around Zack's victory are "the past was changed" or "alternate universe", I find Nomura's answer to be very interesting. @TurquoiseHammer, thanks for your work as always by the way, is there any chance that the last line could be translated as "history has not yet changed"? Or, in an indirect way, is Nomura saying that Crisis Core's story will not be revised because Remake didn't change the past?



EDIT: Here's @aitaikimochi's translation for comparison.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The writers would be absolute schizos to repeat this so consistently for so long, adding further clarification and emphasis with each response and then just.... Lie.

There's no ambiguity or hemming of their answer. It's straight, consistent and clear. The real mystery is what we're going to see and how they'll recontextualize this story. Because the how is a huge uncertainty.

But hey.... For those who aren't superfans of FFVII and don't follow the creator interviews..? They'll get more fun uncertainty and illusion than Jenova can project into someone's head!

 

[waw]

That's a reference to Deepground and it's characters. Meaning yes, we could see more Deepground or other Compilation characters in the future. Which, they've always said was a possibility.

OH yeah, I'm definitely not saying this passage means Genesis is a big villain. Just that we're getting more of those characters and I believe Genesis myself.

It looks like it's finally time to accept that the main story will be the same. The devs have repeated it too much at this point.

I.... just don't know how that happens. I don't know how they pull this off. I'm so curious.

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah, as I figured Cloud’s past in the Remake is still basically the same as it was depicted in Crisis Core. alive!Zack is obviously going to be some anomaly/paradox/mystery that will get resolved over the course of the Remake project without “spoiling” Cloud’s general classic identity arc.
I bet it will end up being something like one of those Booster Gold storylines where Ted Kord (the second Blue Beetle) has to return to his original moment in time to die.

 

[ultima786]

I’m calling it now. Zack is bound up in the identity crisis of Cloud. He’s a “I see dead people” Lifestream ghost or something.

Or something.

 

[Odysseus]

So like, it's really funny to me that half the fanbase is taking the quotes from the interviews about Rebirth (specifically about how the "crux" of the game won't change) as proof that the story will be exactly the same, while the other half just will not believe Nomura at all when he says Crisis Core Reunion will have no new or changed story elements.

 

[Kain424]

I’m calling it now. Zack is bound up in the identity crisis of Cloud. He’s a “I see dead people” Lifestream ghost or something.

Or something.

Don't rule out a Fight Club-esq self-delusion. While in reality Cloud is barely hanging on as he drags Zack's sword to Midgar, he could be projecting a protector figure of Zack as helping him along. That sort of thing.

So like, it's really funny to me that half the fanbase is taking the quotes from the interviews about Rebirth (specifically about how the "crux" of the game won't change) as proof that the story will be exactly the same, while the other half just will not believe Nomura at all when he says Crisis Core Reunion will have no new or changed story elements.

Big time. I'm on a Discord server where these guys are going nuts saying things like "More LIES from Nomura!" and the like. It's amazing.

 

[Theozilla]

The “crux” or “axis” of the story being the same isn’t the same as claiming the story will be “exactly the same”, it’s basically saying the same thing that people who have been saying they expect the general skeleton/outline of the OG to be followed while also having changes and additions to it. Like what the first installment has done so far.

 

[LNK]

Big time. I'm on a Discord server where these guys are going nuts saying things like "More LIES from Nomura!" and the like. It's amazing.

Remake subreddit is the same

 

[KindOfBlue]

Remake subreddit is the same

But but but reeee Nomura bad Kingdom Hearts bad

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Interesting that Nomura states the Remake Project's mysteries won't unravel until we reach the end. Let the speculation continue...

Considering the two most popular theories around Zack's victory are "the past was changed" or "alternate universe", I find Nomura's answer to be very interesting. @TurquoiseHammer, thanks for your work as always by the way, is there any chance that the last line could be translated as "history has not yet changed"? Or, in an indirect way, is Nomura saying that Crisis Core's story will not be revised because Remake didn't change the past?

View attachment 12710

EDIT: Here's @aitaikimochi's translation for comparison.

View attachment 12714

No not really. Nomura is doing a really bad job of trying to sound cryptic without revealing anything and in the end it just came out as gibberish. But based on the context it's very clear he's saying that CCR won't be changed because the point of the Remake project isn't to retcon what came before it. The differences in the way things are portrayed at the end of Remake (Zack living vs. dying) are unique to Remake. If Zack were to live at the end of CCR, then it wouldn't be a prequel to Remake.