Something's wrong, and I'm gonna say it - FFXIII Spoilers abound

[DrakeClawfang]

I don't say this just to sound like I didn't listen to a word, but I'm highly suspicious of anyone who complains about the lack of Vaan and Blitzball in a game.

 

[Max Payne]

Meh. I enjoyed blitzball. Maybe that's because I wasn't terrible at it like so many people seem to be.

 

[Alex]

Blitzball was amazing, stop griefing my shit dawg.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Agreed with everybody else about Blitzball. It's good shit.

And Vaan? Well, certainly he's nothing to miss, but he was used for a couple of funny moments in XII. That much is true. Tidus would have been a better example of funny moments for the review, though.

And, yeah, that was a great review. Agreed with Mog's sentiments completely.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Even as someone who adores FFXIII, I've got to say that the following is utter bullshit on Toriyama's part:

We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom.

So, there you have it: Those who have found faults with FFXIII aren't comparing its content to that of previous FFs. They're just looking at it from the wrong (i.e. western) worldview.

Sources:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235030?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS
http://kotaku.com/5472712/square-enix-attempts-to-explain-low-western-reviews

 

[Max Payne]

Rofl, pretty much all of us have been judging it from an FF standpoint, compared to the content of past games.

That's all.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

[It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom.

XFD

Well, back to Mass Effect!

 

[Makoeyes987]

...So how much more does it take for people's bullshit meters to finally just go into overdrive? Christ, Toriyama is a nut cup.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

...So how much more does it take for people's bullshit meters to finally just go into overdrive? Christ, Toriyama is a nut cup.

The best part is that I for one, am definitely not asking Final Fantasy or any other JRPG to be like any WRPG, Mass Effect, Morrowind, or whatever. The hilarity here is that judging from Toriyama's comment (and the general sentiment I seem to be getting from Japanese developers), is that they can't even understand or grasp why people might enjoy certain features of WPRGs, or anything that isn't Japanese. It's like they totally have their heads in the sand.

"B...but...you're supposed to unequivocally love JRPGs and everything we do with them! W...why would anyone possibly derive any entertainment from any other genre?! Instead of going outside our cultural comfort box to find out, we'll just continually strip away fun peripheral aspects to our games that gamers used to enjoy very much! Please, please accept our extremely watered down modern games! Please!"

The other point, like Dacon said, I'm not looking at FFXIII funny because it's not a WRPG. I'm looking at it funny because it doesn't seem to be...anything. It seems to be the aspects of the previous FFs distilled to ridiculousness.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Hopefully they will do better with Versus and Agito. There any new word on those games yet?

 

[Max Payne]

I still have hope for Versus.

Agito? mweh.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I still have hope for Versus.

Agito? mweh.

Good god they better not screw up with Versus. Its main character has my name. If the game sucks, I might have to rename myself

 

[DrakeClawfang]

We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom.

Three words - FALLOUT, DUMB SHIT!

My faith in FF13 just took a big hit. How the hell do you use that lameass excuse to justify linearity?

 

[Lord Noctis]

Three words - FALLOUT, DUMB SHIT!

My faith in FF13 just took a big hit. How the hell do you use that lameass excuse to justify linearity?

By being nut-fucking insane.

 

[Max Payne]

As controversial as it is among GTA fans, GTA 4 told a very compelling story imo despite being foremost a free roaming gaming.

They should stop with the excuses. Geez, if they woulda just said it was a creative decision, that'd be the end of it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

XFD

Well, back to Mass Effect!

I knew you were going to say this. XD

"B...but...you're supposed to unequivocally love JRPGs and everything we do with them! W...why would anyone possibly derive any entertainment from any other genre?! Instead of going outside our cultural comfort box to find out, we'll just continually strip away fun peripheral aspects to our games that gamers used to enjoy very much! Please, please accept our extremely watered down modern games! Please!"

But they said please, Mog.


Here's one reviewer's very sober and honest look at FFXIII:
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-things-i-loved-about-final-fantasy-xiii-162457.phtml
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-things-i-didn-t-love-about-final-fantasy-xiii-162684.phtml#ext

 

[Max Payne]

Mass Effect isn't really open world either. 1 and 2 are both pretty goddamn linear, but give the illusion that they aren't by giving you a shitload of realestate, spoken dialogue, and events to play with.

It's content that matters here.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Mass Effect isn't really open world either. 1 and 2 are both pretty goddamn linear, but give the illusion that they aren't by giving you a shitload of realestate, spoken dialogue, and events to play with.

It's content that matters here.

That's true, but from a Japanese perspective, a game with the structure like Mass Effect is probably stroke inducingly open ended. While he didn't name names, I would bet that Toriyama didn't just have games on the far end of the open ended spectrum like Oblivion and GTA in mind when he made that statement.

 

[Max Payne]

That's true, but from a Japanese perspective, a game with the structure like Mass Effect is probably stroke inducingly open ended.

It's still pretty damn inaccurate.

It's just like the whining about making towns. Mass Effect 2 has at least 3 really detailed areas that can be considered towns, with tons of npcs and many of them with a buttload of dialogue.

The excuses here are just laughable imo.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It's still pretty damn inaccurate.

Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Wait I'm confused, exactly what are you saying?

 

[Max Payne]

Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Mass Effect isn't an open world game. It's not really all that open in general. You're still being guided down the same pathway, you just get to make a few choices as to how you do it.

Western RPGs have managed to tell linear stories in open world games with no issues, so why is Japan an exception? If anything it shouldn't be so hard for a culture that can be so creative when they work at it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Mass Effect isn't an open world game. It's not really all that open in general. You're still being guided down the same pathway, you just get to make a few choices as to how you do it.

Absolutely, but that's because we have the perspective of playing games that are far, far more open world. But like I said, it's a perspective thing a little bit too. Mass Effect isn't an open world game compared to say, Oblivion, but it definitely has far, far, more open world elements than a shitload of JRPGs.

Many JRPG players that I've seen that's gotten into Mass Effect 1 or 2 simply couldn't grasp exactly what to do when they first got access to the Galaxy Map. While there is a pretty straightforward invisible line of what to do next, compared to JPRGs, where there's a very "GO HERE DO THIS" until the very end of the game, the concept of having about a dozen shit you can do on dozens of planets and three huge cities instead of following that invisible line at any point in the game, can be very open ended to someone without that perspective.

See what I'm sayin'?

Western RPGs have managed to tell linear stories in open world games with no issues, so why is Japan an exception? If anything it shouldn't be so hard for a culture that can be so creative when they work at it.

Of course, I agree with this. I think Saga Frontier had the right idea, just executed shoddily.

 

[Max Payne]

Absolutely, but that's because we have the perspective of playing games that are far, far more open world. But like I said, it's a perspective thing a little bit too. Mass Effect isn't an open world game compared to say, Oblivion, but it definitely has far, far, more open world elements than a shitload of JRPGs.

It's not like these games are available only to the west man, they've been available to japan for ages too. I'm not looking at this at any perspective that shouldn't be available to any dedicated gamer.

where there's a very "GO HERE DO THIS" until the very end of the game,

ME does this to a degree too.

the concept of having about a dozen shit you can do on dozens of planets and three huge cities instead of following that invisible line at any point in the game, can be very open ended to someone without that perspective.

Shouldn't be, since these games are available to any gamer that ain't too close minded to play the games.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

ME does this to a degree too.

Of course, that's what I said open ended elements. I do agree that on the open ended spectrum it's low compared to Oblivion, but very high compared to say, Breath of Fire.

It's not like these games are available only to the west man, they've been available to japan for ages too. I'm not looking at this at any perspective that shouldn't be available to any dedicated gamer.

Shouldn't be, since these games are available to any gamer that ain't too close minded to play the games.

Absolutely, but how many of those Japanese players actually play those games? Hell, how many people in the West only play JRPGs? I'm not saying that these games are unaccessible, I'm agreeing with you in the fact that I'm criticizing these players (but mostly the developers, since they're actually making the games) for not being aware of these games, appreciating what they have to offer, and perhaps thinking about how some of these aspects can be applied creatively to their own games.

I sort of think that we're sort of saying the same thing at this point, so yeah, right?!?!

 

[Max Payne]

I dunno, most gamers I know like to broaden their horizons past revisiting the same genres over and over less popular conventions start to grow stale for them.