Something's wrong, and I'm gonna say it - FFXIII Spoilers abound

[Cat Rage Room]

I dunno, most gamers I know like to broaden their horizons past revisiting the same genres over and over less popular conventions start to grow stale for them.

Yeah, and a lot of gamers I know (and don't know, compared to polls, gaming habits, comments, and cultural shifts that one can notice) don't. No, it's not good, but there are a sizable number of them.

Why do you think stale games of any genre get released year after year after year? Somebody's out there buying them. Hopefully in the Final Fantasy/JRPG trend it'll reverse and we'll start seeing some good shit again, but hell, it's not a unique or new phenomenon with people isolating themselves into buying the same shit over and over again.

 

[Max Payne]

Yeah, and a lot of gamers I know (and don't know, compared to polls, gaming habits, comments, and cultural shifts that one can notice) don't. No, it's not good, but there are a sizable number of them.

There's polls and shit for the reverse too. That's not any real indication of popular consensus past giving you an idea of how many people are like that. It doesn't mean that a vast majority are(even though the vast majority of gamers are underage fuckheads). I mean, there was a poll for whether or not people bothered with polls on gaming sites before.

Why do you think stale games of any genre get released year after year after year? Somebody's out there buying them. Hopefully in the Final Fantasy/JRPG trend it'll reverse and we'll start seeing some good shit again, but hell, it's not a unique or new phenomenon with people isolating themselves into buying the same shit over and over again.

Wut. That's not what I was saying. I'm saying they mix it up between games with something different, not that they wean themselves off a genre for a while.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

There's polls and shit for the reverse too. That's not any real indication of popular consensus past giving you an idea of how many people are like that. It doesn't mean that a vast majority are(even though the vast majority of gamers are underage fuckheads). I mean, there was a poll for whether or not people bothered with polls on gaming sites before.

Right, I'm not saying that there's a vast majority of anything. I'm just saying that the world's a big place, there's a lot of people, and a lot of people do a lot of things, which equals into some very diverse playing and purchasing habits. Some more than others, but there are some noticeable patterns that you or I may notice.

Wut. That's not what I was saying. I'm saying they mix it up between games with something different, not that they wean themselves off a genre for a while.

No, that's what I meant.

 

[Max Payne]

That's a neat idea and all. But for a developer to have that kind of perspective is irresponsible in an industry like games, where people are always pushing further with tech, and creative direction.

I mean ffs, they're working for what's arguably the biggest RPG developer in japan.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That's a neat idea and all. But for a developer to have that kind of perspective is irresponsible in an industry like games, where people are always pushing further with tech, and creative direction.

Absolutely. Which is why a responsible developer notices trends waxing and waning with time and adjusts his strategy accordingly.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Great news, folks! Crisis averted!

That whole red skies deal? It was called off!

As you can see here, the latest comments from FFXIII's developers have retconned the older information about the game's relatively minimal content being a result of workload issues and plain old development difficulty:

The earlier part of the game was intentionally created to be a linear experience because we wanted to make the experience similar to a movie or drama where players really get to know the characters and what is behind their actions.
And also, since this is a brand new system for FFXIII, we wanted to take the correct steps to make sure players can control that system at will. So it is a surprise that so many people are commenting that the game is linear, but once you get into the area of Pulse in the game , it’s much more of a free world and the battle system really comes to life. And once you have a good idea of how to control it, you can go full force and it should be a completely different experience.

Source: http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/02/12/final-fantasy-xiii-your-questions-answered/

Since newer statements override older, this is the new canon.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Great news, folks! Crisis averted!

That whole red skies deal? It was called off!

As you can see here, the latest comments from FFXIII's developers have retconned the older information about the game's relatively minimal content being a result of workload issues and plain old development difficulty:

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/02/12/final-fantasy-xiii-your-questions-answered/

As newer statements override older, this is the new canon.

 

[ForceStealer]

Great news, folks! Crisis averted!

That whole red skies deal? It was called off!

As you can see here, the latest comments from FFXIII's developers have retconned the older information about the game's relatively minimal content being a result of workload issues and plain old development difficulty:


Source: http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/02/12/final-fantasy-xiii-your-questions-answered/

Since newer statements override older, this is the new canon.

"And Lightning isn't really a female Cloud, Nomura was just high at that interview. Honest!"

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The earlier part of the game was intentionally created to be a linear experience because we wanted to make the experience similar to a movie or drama where players really get to know the characters and what is behind their actions.
And also, since this is a brand new system for FFXIII, we wanted to take the correct steps to make sure players can control that system at will. So it is a surprise that so many people are commenting that the game is linear, but once you get into the area of Pulse in the game , it’s much more of a free world and the battle system really comes to life. And once you have a good idea of how to control it, you can go full force and it should be a completely different experience.

The damage control is just stunning. Why can't they display some integrity and just come up with a reason and stick with it?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Also

The earlier part of the game was intentionally created to be a linear experience

So it is a surprise that so many people are commenting that the game is linear

Get your damn story straight, SE.

 

[Max Payne]

WAIT EVERYONE, WE SAID THIS BUT MEANT THIS, OH WAIT WE DIDN'T MEAN THAT EITHER.

 

[Max Payne]

"We try not to listen to the critics too much. Most of the criticisms have come because the first half of the game is very linear,But we've got a story to tell, and it's important the player can engage with the characters and the world they inhabit before letting them loose..."

This comment tickled my funny bone in particular. Way to stagnate Kitase.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Turks while drunk, were better bullshitters than this.

 

[DLPB]

http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/fina....html?id=704901&tag=player-reviews;continue;4 Would you agree with that Paradox? Because from what I am reading here and elsewhere, he pretty much has it to a tee

 

[Makoeyes987]

God I love that review. Yes. That about sums it up. I love the quotes at the beginning too XDDD

Very good one, thank you for sharing. I'm bookmarking this one.

 

[DLPB]

I am gonna have to sell my ps3 then and get myself an Xbox with Lost Odyssey, for sure The idea that they have dumbed down the game to that degree and people will still blindly accept it is frightening. With xbox I can prob still play it in a few years time, but the 2 game series I love most: MGS and FF, seem to have gone down the pan. Hironobu, here I come...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

God I love that review. Yes. That about sums it up. I love the quotes at the beginning too XDDD

That quote from Fumito Ueda sums up why you need to get off your ass -- or on it, if necessary -- and play "ICO" and "Shadow of the Colossus."


Anywho, yeah, that was a great review. Harsh, but honest.

I suppose coming from a film-educated background myself, I can appreciate FFXIII more than some, and that may be why I'm more forgiving of it than others. As well, I've always played FF games more for their stories than anything -- except, perhaps, in FFTactics' case, as that game was so damn fun to play. But I absolutely understand the gripes that Mako et. al. have with the game.

Certainly there's nothing as innovative at work here as is the case with Ueda's games. I still say -- and will continue to, until something superior comes along -- that "ICO" and especially "Shadow of the Colossus" are the strongest argument for video games as art ever developed.

Thanks for linking to that review, Daniel.

 

[Arianna]

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Final_Fantasy_XIII/index.html

It isn't so much an issue of linearity as most Final Fantasy games are extraordinarily linear with towns and sidequests being little more than distractions to give the illusion of variable story paths. That doesn't mean they can be cut without consequence, however. I really expected more with FFXIII. With a massive and mysterious floating city like Cocoon to adventure in, arguably the series' best battle system under its belt, a strong cast with a strong narrative, and all those years of development time, FFXIII could have been a masterpiece. The relative lack of content is my core criticism of the game.

And the worst part, at least to me: They are going to charge us about $40 or more for this thing.

What's the point of getting the game, then? I didn't read the other articles.

As for the two articles I have to scan - my computer is fried, so I need to wait until I get a new one.

... Sorry guys. I will do my best, no time limit this time though - 'cause I suck at keeping them.

 

[Max Payne]

MGS

Good lord don't get me started on MGS's recent entries.

 

[Celes Chere]

Good lord don't get me started on MGS's recent entries.

How did you like the PeaceWalker demo?

 

[DLPB]

Good lord don't get me started on MGS's recent entries.

Well MGS4 especially has done the exact same as that review was criticising. Dumbed down, poor gameplay and 10000000 cutscenes, trying to be a movie and a poor one at that. No balance whatsoever. I don't play a game for just story; it is very important to me, but not when it becomes an excuse to 'hollywoodise'. Not when it is used for the sake of showing off graphical power at the expense of gameplay and a decent intelligent plot. I always feared game consoles becoming more powerful with GB's and GB's of data, because I could see this coming... You give a poor writer 1000 pages and tell him to write a book, and he may use 1000 pages just to fill it and have nothing but waffle.

 

[Max Payne]

PW might be k if only because it doesn't follow MGS4's shitstorm. Oh and co-op.

 

[Max Payne]

Hello there everyone.
The Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 editions of FFXIII have finally been fully mastered and we are now eagerly awaiting the countdown to the worldwide release. I have just returned from a three week global media tour where I was interviewed by media people from a huge number of places and sincerely appreciate all the excitement and expectation continuing to build for the release date coming from everyone outside of Japan. I have also truly felt the speed with which information moves these days from talking to all the people who have already picked up on the reception to FFXIII at home.
In particular there have been many who expressed opinions regarding the story driven nature of FFXIII making for a linear gameplay progression so I shall briefly talk about that concept here.
The story of FFXIII plays out across two different worlds; the futuristic world of Cocoon, with its sprawling urban areas built inside a spherical planetoid and the primeval world of Gran Pulse populated by gigantic beasts the size of dinosaurs. The game system itself actually changes between these two worlds, with the first half of the game taking place in Cocoon being a very story driven experience, whereas the second half in Gran Pulse is an open world design with a more free style of gameplay.
In order to allow the player to become absorbed in the drama of the storytelling and the new and exciting world of Cocoon and be drawn to the characters without getting distracted or lost we have deliberately used a linear game design for the introduction sections so they can be enjoyed in the same manner as watching a film. We are aiming for a vibe while playing that is similar to the experience of an FPS style game, where the player rapidly progresses through a series of dramatic events and experiences one after the other on an imposing and atmospheric battlefield. This kind of design is also very beneficial for the player in allowing them to gradually and systematically learn the brand new battle system that this instalment brings to the series. It is set up such that the player will experience and try out each character’s possible roles in battle and naturally internalise the intensely tactical nature of the paradigm shift system.
I make a promise that even if you have never played a Final Fantasy game, or even an RPG before then you will still be able to appreciate FFXIII with no difficulty. I hope that you will pick up and play it and experience the fresh and unique gameplay that is only possible with Final Fantasy!
​

We are aiming for a vibe while playing that is similar to the experience of an FPS style game

So this is the fucking culprit. I want to play a final fantasy game that's like a FF game, not a goddamn shooting game.

 

[DLPB]

If the Final Fantasy series is not about making games now (which is news to me) but just telling stories and tacking on vestigal gameplay elements onto it, then you're treading dangerous ground. The franchise is gonna rot, and creativity and gameplay innovation will devolve. You keep taking whatever stuff they make and in a few years, a reckoning like Spirits Within will happen. Because all the other developers out there are in the business of making games, and doing new shit. And if a company doesn't keep up with the pack, it'll get eaten. And the only way it'll know it needs to keep up, is if its told to do so.

One thing I am getting whilst reading your posts (I am reading through whoel thread properly now) is just how fuckin logical you actually are. That ain't an arse lick, well, maybe it is. So be it. Bottom line, it is good to read from someone who has the foresight to actually SEE THAT.

The problem with movies and games that are lapped up, accepted and paid for, no matter what their content, is that a day of reckoning arrives, and before that you get piece of shit after piece of shit.

That is where we are with FF games imho. We had the freshness of VI, the revolution of VII, the awe of VIII and right up to and including X we had nothing but brilliance.

Since then we have had :

Numerous spin offs of VII cashing in
X-2
XII (gambit system, basically a game that plays itself) and a nice spin off.
XIII and now oh look another spin off of XIII (versus)

Does anyone else out there actually realise what is going on here? Creativity is dying and the reason is they know THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. Like hollywood churning out its useless remakes and its rubbish cash ins, FF has become a victim of its own success. But Squareenix haven't become victims with it.

I really fail to see where all this:

"Linear has been done before in FF games, XIII is no different"
"Who needs NPC"
"Who wants to go back to areas they have played"
"Who needs a world map"
"Who cares about towns"

comes from.

How can TAKING AWAY FROM AN RPG WHAT MAKES IT AN RPG, BE OK?

How can taking away minigames and relegating gameplay to playing second fiddle be OK?

A game is supposed to be interactive. The reason we play games is to interact and do things that we cannot do at a cinema- namely playing the game rather than sitting there watching a screen.

Story is half a good RPG, but XIII has made it 90% and then thrown in tired battles because "we can't really get away with not having them". I really hope some of you wake up before this franchise hits the brick wall it is coming to.

I also don't understand this

"You haven't played it so wait and see"
"You can't trust reviews"

comes from. As if all these reviews are lies or a big conspiracy or something. I don't need to be a genius to work out whether things are in or not in the game.

There, rant over Seriously though, liking the game or hoping you will is everybodies right, but pretending things are not really happening is wishful thinking and denial. The story may be good, but that doesn't make the game good....

edit:

and it is a real shame because I am watching the english vids on youtube and the graphics are so well done, the animations, the "feel" it is all so well done. What a wasted potential...

oh and....

These reviews are piling up:

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=fi...94&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=c8ffc63f,9acafd1

but remember people! They are allllll a lieeeee and a conspiracy.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I can't criticize a story I've already seen and read about? Please.

I guess what Fang is trying to say is that first hand experience always wins over second hand experience. After all, that's why I bought the game. However, that's not to say that you aren't allowed to dislike the character.