Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
The last few pages reminds me of why I tend to like the original works best. That and because it tends to be filled with Unbuilt Tropes as no one knew what to expect anyway.
Sony's Spider-Man: Now a Part of the MCU; And Now Not Again; And Now Is Again
- Thread starter Animexcel
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
At least it only caused you to make an awesome geekgasm post about why they actually have worked hard on this.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
the other outfits while ridiculous wouldn't had made him look like Schwarzenegger's Mr. Freeze, that's a massive improvement in my eyes.
Is that your only reason for not liking him? Because he's the same color as Mr. Freeze?
So if he had been yellow he would have been fine?
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Oh, snap, Tenny just played the race card. 
Carlie, quick: Deflect with a point about how they had to make the Black man blue!
Carlie, quick: Deflect with a point about how they had to make the Black man blue!
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Before I really respond, I just wanna say thanks to ya X. Its always nice when I can disagree and argue with someone about something I take as seriously as my Spider-man fanboying without any sort of malice or rage creeping in. You're a cool guy dude, and we should hang out more. Now then, for all the things I disagree about
This is true, much as I hate to say it. And y'know, I'd be fine with Electro going all glowy/blue/translucent when powered up to max. Could even have a moment near the finale where he overcharges himself and burns his ridiculous costume off to suddenly be a blue glowy one-winged angel form or something and I'd bite. Its just him looking like this all the time that gets my goat.
I see what you mean here, yeah. Although Electro was a member of the Six in his ridiculous costume for several iterations of the team, so there is that.
That italicized bit there is literally true of every incarnation of Electro I've ever heard of. He's a top-tier threat, incredibly potent. Dude has enough raw juice and his powers have enough versatility and power to take on the likes of the Hulk and... well not win, obviously, but not lose immediately either. Its just that 616!Electro is far too dumb and lacking in confidence to come up with the more creative uses of those powers. Its his whole schtick. He'd be an Avengers or Fantastic Four level threat if he was just better at the thinking parts of being a super-villain, and his team-ups with the Six and various other villains have always made him more dangerous not just because he has backup but because THEY think up cool shit he is capable of and he does it. If Electro is, more or less by himself, supposed to be the main threat for the whole movie... then I agree with Carlie. They've already failed, at least for me. I can never take Electro that seriously.
Yeah, I get what you mean now. Looking back I sorta harped on it a bit more than necessary, even to the extent that my point does still work (616!Electro's costume during the Superior run is much more human and such). But the real reason I cut this out of the paragraph? To tell you I <3 you for that current pun.
I will concede that Ultimate Spider-man is the best thing the Ultimate-verse has going for it. Even if I can never forgive them for what they did to Carnage.
Oh I get what you mean there, I always did.
I know, his looks "match" this power. Its just a power I don't think he needs, especially if it leads to using that design.
I was referring explicitly to 616!Electro when I said "can't and shouldn't" there
Done.
Ok, I get what you mean here to an extent and it does make the VFX sound more awesome than "arcs of current and glowing" that I dismissed it with before. But now I don't get where you're getting more realism out of his design vis a vis transmitting himself as current. Current isn't solid. If you can punch him, if he has a circulatory system and so on still, he's solid. He has cells, etc. How does it make for more realistic transitions, as you asserted before, if that's the case? Whichever direction we take this in, its too much fridge logic for me.
I'm looking at him this way because I am accustomed to viewing Electro as "just another villain." He's not a huge personal feud type enemy like the Goblins tend to be (especially Norman of course), Pete didn't accidentally create the villain like he did with this verse's version of the Lizard or comics-verse Venom, and so on. Electro is just that, just another villain. A villain with all the potential to transcend that limit if he just knew how (and notably did briefly when he got overcharged via the electric chair and stuff). Using him otherwise, at least during his first appearance, just feels wrong. He is the wrong villain for the role of Big Bad.
You mean Rhino and the Goblin? We want the Green Goblin to play second fiddle to Electro? The guy who is to Spider-man what the Joker is to Batman is second bananas. Yeah. That's... a thing.
As for Rhino, he and Electro honestly shouldn't be in the same movie until a whole team is lined up, if ever. Because if they used Electro as I know him, they'd be too damn similar. People with staggering, Hulk-fighting levels of power... that still lose too easily when all is said and done because they're too dumb to utilize that power properly.
Ok, I've been exaggerating Electro's stupidity a bit in this post and the one before it, mostly to defend my preference for his stupider costumes. Electro, despite being "just another villain" who clutters up Spidey's extensive rouges gallery, IS ALWAYS hard to take down until the inevitable moment where he blasts a fire hydrant or gets kicked into a harbor. He's too big an unimaginative dunce to use his powers to their fullest, or even half their potential most days (unless he's being coached, see above), but they're so massive that even limited as they are he's still a wrecking ball. It took some time, study, and a lot of precautions before Pete took him down the first time. So, this being the first time they meet up, I can see him carrying the plot. I'll concede that.
This is one thing Ultimates did that I'm ok with. Osborn is, as I mentioned, the Joker to Pete's Bat. Deeply and heavily connecting his company with the mythos and backstory is A-ok in my book. And I can see why they'd love to differentiate themselves from Raimi's movies. So yes, I'm ok with this. Albeit I would like to keep some things separate from OsCorp. Example: if the Vulture ever shows up, I deeply hope he's an independent like the comics version and not backed by OsCorp.
Yep, and mine is that Electro's "current" look is (admittedly well polished) crap
Honestly? Habit. I sorta feel bad now that you mention it. Smurfs are nowhere near that ugly But no, he could be any color under the sun and I'd hate this look. Its not the Doc Manhattan/Mr. Ahnuld-Freeze comparisons that make it bad for me. Its the fact that its just bad. I mean that seriously btw. Like, your example of the Na'vi there? I actually liked their blue cat-person thing they had going. It worked, in a somewhat uncanny valley way (which I assumed was intentional). And I don't, upon reflection, deny how awesome the layering and such used for Electro is. But if you used the same methods to animate a purely VFX turd... it'd still be a turd
And for the record, my opinions here do not ruin the whole film for me. I learned my lesson with ASM1, and in hindsight I shoulda learned from the Raimi-films. I HATED the Green Goblin armor and shit in that movie. HATED. LOATHED. Dafoe still made me love his version of Osborn. Maybe this movie will do something similar with Electro. I'll just have to wait and see.
This is true, much as I hate to say it. And y'know, I'd be fine with Electro going all glowy/blue/translucent when powered up to max. Could even have a moment near the finale where he overcharges himself and burns his ridiculous costume off to suddenly be a blue glowy one-winged angel form or something and I'd bite. Its just him looking like this all the time that gets my goat.
I see what you mean here, yeah. Although Electro was a member of the Six in his ridiculous costume for several iterations of the team, so there is that.
That italicized bit there is literally true of every incarnation of Electro I've ever heard of. He's a top-tier threat, incredibly potent. Dude has enough raw juice and his powers have enough versatility and power to take on the likes of the Hulk and... well not win, obviously, but not lose immediately either. Its just that 616!Electro is far too dumb and lacking in confidence to come up with the more creative uses of those powers. Its his whole schtick. He'd be an Avengers or Fantastic Four level threat if he was just better at the thinking parts of being a super-villain, and his team-ups with the Six and various other villains have always made him more dangerous not just because he has backup but because THEY think up cool shit he is capable of and he does it. If Electro is, more or less by himself, supposed to be the main threat for the whole movie... then I agree with Carlie. They've already failed, at least for me. I can never take Electro that seriously.
Yeah, I get what you mean now. Looking back I sorta harped on it a bit more than necessary, even to the extent that my point does still work (616!Electro's costume during the Superior run is much more human and such). But the real reason I cut this out of the paragraph? To tell you I <3 you for that current pun.
I will concede that Ultimate Spider-man is the best thing the Ultimate-verse has going for it. Even if I can never forgive them for what they did to Carnage.
Oh I get what you mean there, I always did.
I know, his looks "match" this power. Its just a power I don't think he needs, especially if it leads to using that design.
I was referring explicitly to 616!Electro when I said "can't and shouldn't" there
Done.
Ok, I get what you mean here to an extent and it does make the VFX sound more awesome than "arcs of current and glowing" that I dismissed it with before. But now I don't get where you're getting more realism out of his design vis a vis transmitting himself as current. Current isn't solid. If you can punch him, if he has a circulatory system and so on still, he's solid. He has cells, etc. How does it make for more realistic transitions, as you asserted before, if that's the case? Whichever direction we take this in, its too much fridge logic for me.
I'm looking at him this way because I am accustomed to viewing Electro as "just another villain." He's not a huge personal feud type enemy like the Goblins tend to be (especially Norman of course), Pete didn't accidentally create the villain like he did with this verse's version of the Lizard or comics-verse Venom, and so on. Electro is just that, just another villain. A villain with all the potential to transcend that limit if he just knew how (and notably did briefly when he got overcharged via the electric chair and stuff). Using him otherwise, at least during his first appearance, just feels wrong. He is the wrong villain for the role of Big Bad.
You mean Rhino and the Goblin? We want the Green Goblin to play second fiddle to Electro? The guy who is to Spider-man what the Joker is to Batman is second bananas. Yeah. That's... a thing.
As for Rhino, he and Electro honestly shouldn't be in the same movie until a whole team is lined up, if ever. Because if they used Electro as I know him, they'd be too damn similar. People with staggering, Hulk-fighting levels of power... that still lose too easily when all is said and done because they're too dumb to utilize that power properly.
Ok, I've been exaggerating Electro's stupidity a bit in this post and the one before it, mostly to defend my preference for his stupider costumes. Electro, despite being "just another villain" who clutters up Spidey's extensive rouges gallery, IS ALWAYS hard to take down until the inevitable moment where he blasts a fire hydrant or gets kicked into a harbor. He's too big an unimaginative dunce to use his powers to their fullest, or even half their potential most days (unless he's being coached, see above), but they're so massive that even limited as they are he's still a wrecking ball. It took some time, study, and a lot of precautions before Pete took him down the first time. So, this being the first time they meet up, I can see him carrying the plot. I'll concede that.
This is one thing Ultimates did that I'm ok with. Osborn is, as I mentioned, the Joker to Pete's Bat. Deeply and heavily connecting his company with the mythos and backstory is A-ok in my book. And I can see why they'd love to differentiate themselves from Raimi's movies. So yes, I'm ok with this. Albeit I would like to keep some things separate from OsCorp. Example: if the Vulture ever shows up, I deeply hope he's an independent like the comics version and not backed by OsCorp.
We're all entitled to our opinions.
Yep, and mine is that Electro's "current" look is (admittedly well polished) crap
Honestly? Habit. I sorta feel bad now that you mention it. Smurfs are nowhere near that ugly
But no, he could be any color under the sun and I'd hate this look. Its not the Doc Manhattan/Mr. Ahnuld-Freeze comparisons that make it bad for me. Its the fact that its just bad. I mean that seriously btw. Like, your example of the Na'vi there? I actually liked their blue cat-person thing they had going. It worked, in a somewhat uncanny valley way (which I assumed was intentional). And I don't, upon reflection, deny how awesome the layering and such used for Electro is. But if you used the same methods to animate a purely VFX turd... it'd still be a turd And for the record, my opinions here do not ruin the whole film for me. I learned my lesson with ASM1, and in hindsight I shoulda learned from the Raimi-films. I HATED the Green Goblin armor and shit in that movie. HATED. LOATHED. Dafoe still made me love his version of Osborn. Maybe this movie will do something similar with Electro. I'll just have to wait and see.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I have to second the hating of the Goblin armor in Raimi's series yet still loving that iteration because of Dafoe. He really made me believe in that Norman as da foe of Spider-Man (since we're doing awful puns ).
).
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Read it as "a smythe." I know, I know -- not my best work.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Before I really respond, I just wanna say thanks to ya X. Its always nice when I can disagree and argue with someone about something I take as seriously as my Spider-man fanboying without any sort of malice or rage creeping in. You're a cool guy dude, and we should hang out more. Now then, for all the things I disagree about
Oh yeah, man! I always try to be as level-minded as possible when debating things while simultaneously fanboying, and it's always appreciated to know when I manage to succeed. *high fives*
No worries, to each their own on this, but I think that interpretation would've been a rad idea.
True, but this sort of thing always comes across differently in a cinematic format.
See, I think that Electro is still pretty much filling that role in this film, but he's a bit different. Max Dillion seems like the kind of unconfident worker (being the only black guy with a comb-over was something that Jamie Foxx commented on), who lashes out and doesn't really understand things completely, and is always getting used by people to be used against other people as soon as he gets his powers. You're ABSOLUTELY supposed to see him as the main "threat" as compared to Osborne in the same way that you'd view a pissed off Grizzly Bear as a bigger threat than a Cobra that scared the Grizzly in your general direction.
Parts of Electro's origins are clearly built to be sympathetic in the film, but his power is also constructed in a way that makes him EASILY the most dangerous thing to Spider-Man. The whole thing is clearly a construction to build up OsCorp as being a VASTLY more dangerous entity than it had been before. More on that a bit later.
That makes my day.
100% Agreed with you here. This is kinda why I'm hoping that they follow through the Ultimate version of most of the universe, but flavor things from the 616 universe - especially if they follow everything through with Gwen Stacy in that aspect. I'd love to see a REAL Carnage in that role, vs. the knockoff brand that happened in the Ultimates Universe.
I meant specifically that, because his body is visually hybridized with electricity, when he transports, the components of his body reform with their visibly electricity-like qualities makes more sense than a normal-looking human cell turning into electricity and then turning back into a normal human cell.
I meant it more in terms of what he can do. In the current Cinematic Spidey-verse, Electro is a CRAZY powerful departure from the capabilities of anything else that we've seen so far, and he stands out that way. To make the wildlife analogy back to my earlier example, the bigger picture of what's happening is the story between the Cobra (Osborne) & the Grizzly (Electro), but there's a reason that the Grizzly is taking center-stage as the Big Bad because of what its overall overwhelming capacities are in terms of raw destructive power on a large scale - not how dangerous it is.
In terms of the story, Electro also serves as the point to accentuate why OsCorp is as dangerous as it is, and why it might fuel those sorts of ambitions even further (especially given the context of the content of the Ultimate Universe). So-
Oh, you absolutely want to downplay Green Goblin in a way, because while he's certainly more on-par with Spider-Man in terms of physical capability, you want to be VASTLY more afraid of him for all the myriad of other reasons - his connection to Peter, OsCorp, etc. and that's why when the smoke and dust clears, Electro's the sort of person who could overwhelm Spidey, Green Goblin could absolutely destroy him for an entirely different set of reasons. You're building up themes for different characters within the same environment, and this will show why the Big Bad villain isn't the one that you worry about the most.
Here's what I think that's happening given the way that they've presented the four of them thus far from the little clips & things:
- Lizard is the potential for the scientific brains and raw regenerative durability.
- Electro is just flat out destructive/disabling capability & teleporting speed.
- Goblin is all about his connections to everything now, & the powers+technology.
- Rhino seems to be about classic high-powered firearms & armor built like a brick shithouse.
I could be TOTALLY mistaken, but it seems like they're all playing slightly different roles for the idea of teaming them up and not having one of them seem like he's just the same version of another guy.
Largely what I was getting to in other details above.
Being as we've seen DocOc's arms & Vulture's Wings in what I believe is the OsCorp building during the earlier trailer (the same one that had the note about the Venom Project in it), I'm suspecting that they're gonna be leaning rather strongly on OsCorp to knit everything together. I do have to say that it's a pretty intense move on Sony's part to make Villain-specific films with Sinister Six & Venom, so I'm really interested to see if they're able to pull them off well (seriously - could you even imagine if the MCU decided to just make a Thanos movie as a standalone before bringing him into the Avengers properly?), and I can see them wanting to have a unifying factor between them all.
One of the things I really like about the Ultimates Universe is how companies like OsCorp & later Roxxon are so fucking untouchable regardless of what they do. They're up to shady underhanded illegal shit all the time, and they've got their fingers in so many pies that they're more effective than the mafia at just completely blocking anything that comes at them legal or otherwise. I think that if you help to focus that Spidey's battle is also against OsCorp and having to find a way to stop IT as much as he does the things that it produces you'll have a really complex & layered dilemma (that you could also tie in to real life concerns should you so choose).
Honestly? Habit. I sorta feel bad now that you mention it. Smurfs are nowhere near that ugly
And for the record, my opinions here do not ruin the whole film for me. I learned my lesson with ASM1, and in hindsight I shoulda learned from the Raimi-films. I HATED the Green Goblin armor and shit in that movie. HATED. LOATHED. Dafoe still made me love his version of Osborn. Maybe this movie will do something similar with Electro. I'll just have to wait and see.
I think at this point it's best to wait & see. I have to say that the first Raimi Spider-Man film completely loses me when Spidey gets KO'd and they have the chat on the roof, because it looks like two drunks in costumes talking on a roof, and it utterly shatters the imagery for me, every time and it takes me a while to get back into it, so I understand where you're coming from.
Hopefully it just kicks a lot of ass and everyone enjoys it regardless of Electro preferences, and it sets up to give us stuff that's even more amazing in the future.
X
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
X said:
Truth.
Geostigma
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- gabe
So I was watching Amazing Spiderman last night and there was something I completely forgot about in it.
The subplot! The driving force that causes Conners to inject himself and become the first human test subject.
Norman Osborn is dieing. I wonder how this element is going to play into the second and third movie. I honestly cant believe I forgot about this element to the movie but then again its only mentioned twice by the secret agent who disappears half way through out the movie.
How do you guys think this will play out? Especially with Harry in town
Norman Osborn is dieing. I wonder how this element is going to play into the second and third movie. I honestly cant believe I forgot about this element to the movie but then again its only mentioned twice by the secret agent who disappears half way through out the movie.
How do you guys think this will play out? Especially with Harry in town
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
Norman being ill and near death is definitely going to be a huge factor. We can see Harry speaking to who I assume is Norman on his deathbed in one of the trailers.
Which also leads me to believe that Harry may not be the Green Goblin. He may be A Goblin, but not THE Goblin. Somehow I feel becoming the Goblin will be Norman's last ditch effort at trying to save himself.
Which also leads me to believe that Harry may not be the Green Goblin. He may be A Goblin, but not THE Goblin. Somehow I feel becoming the Goblin will be Norman's last ditch effort at trying to save himself.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
So when I watched the new Godzilla trailer I was poking through the suggested videos at the end and inadvertently discovered a brand new trailer that I had never seen before.
I thought it was the previous international trailer, but it's completely different, with some very brief new bits.
I thought it was the previous international trailer, but it's completely different, with some very brief new bits.
Including a shot of him in the fire hat
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Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Can I just geek out on the bit where Spidey catches the cop car just before it lands on that guy? The "Hey, need a hand?" bit? Cause they did that perfectly in every way, AND actually remembered that a car shouldn't be a struggle for Pete to lift, where other adaptations do seem to forget just how strong he is until some really big moment or other. My continuing dislike of Electro's design and so on aside, I'm looking forward to this now if they can keep that up the whole way through.
Cthulhu
Administrator
- AKA
- Yop
You probably did without realizing it,
. He's been one of the major players in the pop / mtv / mainstream music thing for the past ten years or so.