Sony's Spider-Man: Now a Part of the MCU; And Now Not Again; And Now Is Again

[jazzflower92]

I think it should be stated that Michael Keaton's role as Vulture is kind of the antithesis to his role as Batman. I mean both roles involve normal guys who use tech in order to fight, while Batman is from a privileged background from the beginning, Vulture despises all of the elite especially Tony Stark. In some ways, Batman lived long enough to become a villain.

 

[Animexcel]

xD Nicely done

EDIT: I just discovered that a friend of a friend made this.

The original source can be found here: https://vimeo.com/224783413

 

[X-SOLDIER]

A fact that will hopefully blow somebody else's mind as much as it wrecked mine: https://twitter.com/calvinstowell/status/884440077572743172





X

 

[Tetsujin]

Saw it today. First impression: Okay, 3/5

Spoiler

The MJ thing was the worst-kept secret, I remember posting about it ages ago (well I guess the initial report was still wrong in that it was said she was "Mary-Jane").

I was happy Tony took away the suit for the finale because the high-tech gimmick stuff was super annoying. Hopefully with how it ended and everything Peter decides to go back to basics in the next one, even with the suit back.

Vulture was a decent villain. Really liked the twist of him being Liz' father.

Goddamn, that post-credits scene. Well played.

Continuity stuff: This being eight years after Avengers confuses me. Civil War was eight years after Iron Man and this takes place shortly after. I think someone messed up there.

 

[Tetsujin]

Basically I agree with a lot of this (spoilers of course): http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/07/14/film-crit-hulk-smash-spider-man-the-marvel-fatal-flaw

This pretty much puts into word something I have felt about a lot of MCU movies for a while now but couldn't quite nail down.

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler

The best part of the film was probably the reveal of the father/daughter relationship, and the following tension until Peter leaves the car. No doubt in my mind, best part of the film. There were many other potentially good bits of the film, but there was no payoff or earned emotional investment.

When Peter is having fun with the bank robbers, and all of a sudden that laser cuts up the convenience store thing across the street, there shouldn't have been any survivors, in my view, or there needed to be more situations like it in the film, with an escalating sense of danger.

One might then argue about when the ship is cut in half, but I didn't feel any tension whatsoever. The trailers showing Iron Man would save the day probably didn't help, but again, there were no injuries or deaths. No intensity to the situation.

There was an intensity to the Washington Monument scene, but I think it could have been done a lot quicker, he seemed to take forever to climb the thing. There was also intensity to the scene where he gets trapped in the truck, but then nothing happened to him. Lots of being-built-up-only-to-be-let-down bits in this film .

Peter's relationship with the girl he idealised didn't feel remotely genuine, so when he kept letting her down, there wasn't the emotional depth to it, in my view.

No one seemed to show trauma in any part of the film for what they experienced. Maybe they're all in a denial phase or something, and it'll hit them in the sequel .

When Peter goes up against the Shocker after the homecoming dance thing, there was potential for tension there too, but as soon as Peter seems to be in danger, his friend arrives. *face palm* Never in any danger.

The final battle on the plane in the sky, I was struggling to see what was actually happening, as it was too flashy and sparky and dark (iirc), especially when Vulture was using his wings to claw his way toward Peter, so there was no intensity for me there in a lot of it. Compare this to the (second?) Iron Man film with the plane scene, which I think had a lot more tension.

The bit where Peter pushes the debris off him is a lame pay off for the Stark advice earlier in the film. I felt it was corny as hell.

So yeah, what frustrates me is how much better the film could've been .

 

[Animexcel]

Spoiler

The best part of the film was probably the reveal of the father/daughter relationship, and the following tension until Peter leaves the car. No doubt in my mind, best part of the film. There were many other potentially good bits of the film, but there was no payoff or earned emotional investment.

When Peter is having fun with the bank robbers, and all of a sudden that laser cuts up the convenience store thing across the street, there shouldn't have been any survivors, in my view, or there needed to be more situations like it in the film, with an escalating sense of danger.

One might then argue about when the ship is cut in half, but I didn't feel any tension whatsoever. The trailers showing Iron Man would save the day probably didn't help, but again, there were no injuries or deaths. No intensity to the situation.

Spoiler

It may not be intense for us, but it was for Spider-Man. I guess it would suck if civilians indirectly died because of him. Actually, if you want that, there's a perfect scene in Amazing Spider-Man 2 when Spidey saved Jamie Foxx as the Rhino's truck killed other people in their cars. Intensity wasn't the focus of Homecoming and it didn't have to be.

Spoiler

There was an intensity to the Washington Monument scene, but I think it could have been done a lot quicker, he seemed to take forever to climb the thing. There was also intensity to the scene where he gets trapped in the truck, but then nothing happened to him. Lots of being-built-up-only-to-be-let-down bits in this film .

Spoiler

You want more intensity, but preferred less of it? I thought it was paced just right. The Washington Monument is really tall after all, so it would make sense that it took some time for him to get up there. Did you want something bad to happen to him after he got trapped in the truck? What he got out of that scene was time for himself to know what else his suit could do because of his struggles after hacking into it. So that led to how he knew how to use those features on the monument and the boat.

Spoiler

Peter's relationship with the girl he idealised didn't feel remotely genuine, so when he kept letting her down, there wasn't the emotional depth to it, in my view.

Spoiler

It was a crush. We knew that Peter liked her, and we saw Liz took interest in Peter and Spider-Man. The fact that he kept disappearing on her only to be brought up in that car ride to the dance made it so good.

Spoiler

No one seemed to show trauma in any part of the film for what they experienced. Maybe they're all in a denial phase or something, and it'll hit them in the sequel .

Spoiler

I think Aunt May was traumatized at the end

Spoiler

When Peter goes up against the Shocker after the homecoming dance thing, there was potential for tension there too, but as soon as Peter seems to be in danger, his friend arrives. *face palm* Never in any danger.

Spoiler

Peter WAS and is always in danger.

Spoiler

The final battle on the plane in the sky, I was struggling to see what was actually happening, as it was too flashy and sparky and dark (iirc), especially when Vulture was using his wings to claw his way toward Peter, so there was no intensity for me there in a lot of it. Compare this to the (second?) Iron Man film with the plane scene, which I think had a lot more tension.

Spoiler

This I can understand. It felt a little claymation to me in some shots. I suppose that's what it looks like with all that strong wind blowing =p

Spoiler

The bit where Peter pushes the debris off him is a lame pay off for the Stark advice earlier in the film. I felt it was corny as hell.

So yeah, what frustrates me is how much better the film could've been .

Spoiler

You're the first person to react negative to that scene. Nearly all the comments I've read said that was a powerful moment that was taken from the comics. And that we forget even though Spider-Man is supposed to be a superhero, he's just a 15 year old. I thought that was great acting by Tom Holland.

 

[Ghost X]

^

Spoiler

It may not be intense for us, but it was for Spider-Man.

. The audience watching the film doesn't matter whatsoever, of course. Why didn't I think of that .

Intensity wasn't the focus of Homecoming and it didn't have to be.

Well, I don't think intensity is the focus of any of my favorite films, but is certainly an aspect of them. This film clearly aimed to have intense moments also, most of which I think I mentioned, but they didn't have the impact they could've had (in my view), which was my entire point.

You want more intensity, but preferred less of it? I thought it was paced just right.

You correctly identify my issue with that particular scene was the pacing, and I disagree with your viewpoint . Also, an intense scene doesn't need to last long to have the desired effect on the viewer.

Did you want something bad to happen to him after he got trapped in the truck? What he got out of that scene was time for himself to know what else his suit could do because of his struggles after hacking into it. So that led to how he knew how to use those features on the monument and the boat.

Well, for example, wouldn't it have been better if the narrative development you speak of was tied to an action scene of spider-man getting out of the mess he found himself in, rather than a toilet break opportunity for the viewer, as that top secret warehouse bit was . I understand the need for peaks and troughs in intensity throughout a film, but there was no pay off (in this case, negative) for him being trapped in the truck, in my view.

It was a crush.

Ah, but it was a major sub-plot of the film. The chemistry between the actors just wasn't there, in my view.

Peter WAS and is always in danger.

Well, obviously. To clarify, my point is, it didn't feel like it to me. If you felt it was communicated well, then lucky for you.

I think Aunt May was traumatized at the end

I had no issue with this part, or the similar accidental reveal to his friend earlier in the film. Those scenes were handled well.

You're the first person to react negative to that scene.

When did you acquire omniscience? j/k. I wouldn't care if my opinion was in the extreme minority either . I say it how I see it.

Cheers for the feedback on my views. It is great for you that you liked the film more than myself, but I'm just explaining why I gave it a 3.5/5 stars (which -- to be fair -- is an above average mark). However, it wasn't an epic film, in my view. Maybe it didn't have to be? Maybe it wasn't meant to be? . Maybe it is like the film industry's version of a pop song, not aiming to be timeless or memorable in any way, except perhaps that Tom Holland might be remembered in future as possibly the best Spider-Man actor to date.

 

[Animexcel]

Spoiler

. The audience watching the film doesn't matter whatsoever, of course. Why didn't I think of that .

I'm just trying to know why we need a bodycount here in order for the danger to be complete. Shouldn't we be relieved that civilians didn't die? I felt that Peter was worried about the store manager and that luckily he and the cat were alive. It's possible. Let's say there were some that did die, I think it would slow the story down a bit. Like, didn't we go through this in Civil War and why the heroes became divided?

Well, for example, wouldn't it have been better if the narrative development you speak of was tied to an action scene of spider-man getting out of the mess he found himself in, rather than a toilet break opportunity for the viewer, as that top secret warehouse bit was . I understand the need for peaks and troughs in intensity throughout a film, but there was no pay off (in this case, negative) for him being trapped in the truck, in my view.

Well, looking at the situation, it would have to make sense why things happened the way it did. And to me, it worked. I felt like him being stuck in that storage facility was needed because there was an action scene already before it. Do we need an action scene before an action scene?

Well, obviously. To clarify, my point is, it didn't feel like it to me. If you felt it was communicated well, then lucky for you.

I'm not sure how better communicated you can get if you want to feel like Spider-Man will possibly die in Homecoming.

When did you acquire omniscience? j/k. I wouldn't care if my opinion was in the extreme minority either . I say it how I see it.

It was just an observation.

Cheers for the feedback on my views. It is great for you that you liked the film more than myself, but I'm just explaining why I gave it a 3.5/5 stars (which -- to be fair -- is an above average mark). However, it wasn't an epic film, in my view. Maybe it didn't have to be? Maybe it wasn't meant to be? . Maybe it is like the film industry's version of a pop song, not aiming to be timeless or memorable in any way, except perhaps that Tom Holland might be remembered in future as possibly the best Spider-Man actor to date.

You certainly have an interesting view on the film. I think we got what they said they were out to make. A John Hughes version of Spider-Man.

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler

I'm just trying to know why we need a bodycount here in order for the danger to be complete. Shouldn't we be relieved that civilians didn't die? I felt that Peter was worried about the store manager and that luckily he and the cat were alive. It's possible. Let's say there were some that did die, I think it would slow the story down a bit. Like, didn't we go through this in Civil War and why the heroes became divided?

I guess it comes down to how believable and relatable the film is. There's no sense of risk in the film because no one is killed, let alone even injured (which would also have been acceptable) in very dangerous scenarios throughout it. Therefore there's never a need for me to emotionally invest myself in any situation throughout the film. Am I relieved? I don't see what that has to do with it. I'm talking about the impact of an event (or lack thereof). "Yeay, everyone is always okay!" gets a bit boring after a while. Deaths, etc, would slow the story down? Other films have handled situations I describe without slowing down the pace, and been convincing while they're at it.

I felt like him being stuck in that storage facility was needed because there was an action scene already before it. Do we need an action scene before an action scene?

Sequential action scenes work fine. The lull of him being in the truck and going into the warehouse is enough of a buffer for another action scene to take place, in my view.

You certainly have an interesting view on the film. I think we got what they said they were out to make. A John Hughes version of Spider-Man.

If that was their intention, are you suggesting that in 20-30 years time, that you think this film will be just as memorable as a majority of John Hughes' filmography? I would have to disagree.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I really need to see this so I can click those fucking spoiler tags.

At least I finally saw "Wonder Woman."

 

[Animexcel]

Spoiler

I guess it comes down to how believable and relatable the film is. There's no sense of risk in the film because no one is killed, let alone even injured (which would also have been acceptable) in very dangerous scenarios throughout it. Therefore there's never a need for me to emotionally invest myself in any situation throughout the film. Am I relieved? I don't see what that has to do with it. I'm talking about the impact of an event (or lack thereof). "Yeay, everyone is always okay!" gets a bit boring after a while. Deaths, etc, would slow the story down? Other films have handled situations I describe without slowing down the pace, and been convincing while they're at it.

It depends on the context of it. Maybe there should've been a shot of news coverage saying "Many people were injured, but no casualties". That scene where Vulture killed the original Shocker was pretty crazy. But who cares about him, right? I was reminded of the bathroom scene in Ant-Man.

Sequential action scenes work fine. The lull of him being in the truck and going into the warehouse is enough of a buffer for another action scene to take place, in my view.

Ok, we go into the warehouse.. He crashes out of the truck that would lead to an action scene. Who's he fighting? I think seeing Spidey ready to fight; expecting Vulture had hijacked the truck, but see that wasn't the case. I think if he did fight the Vulture or his crew at the time, then it would've changed the complexion of the story.

If that was their intention, are you suggesting that in 20-30 years time, that you think this film will be just as memorable as a majority of John Hughes' filmography? I would have to disagree.

I'm not suggesting anything. I did like the nod to Ferris Bueller at the pool party(though the music as it was playing on the tv was 'Oh Yeah' instead of 'March of the Swivelheads'). I think it's great that it was inspired by those films and that Tom Holland based his Spider-Man performance on Marty McFly.

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler

The death of the henchman wasn't intentional though, although that scene was also handled fine. Another good penny drop moment. "Oops, I meant to shoot him with the anti-grav gun."

The hypothetical fight in the warehouse could have been with the authorities in charge. The tone needn't even be serious, but funny, and the incident could probably be swept under the rug by the likes of Tony Stark later. There wasn't much police or media antagonism against Spider-Man in this film, which is also interesting.

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler: Unused design by Ryan Meinerding:

I really like this one. Red and black has always been my favorite combo.

 

[Tennyo]

But that's... That's Otto's suit...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I like the suit, but it just doesn't feel right for Pete.

 

[Joker]

red and blue or I'll send you

a strongly worded email

 

[Tennyo]

I like the suit, but it just doesn't feel right for Pete.

IMHO Peter wearing that suit would be so distracting. I'd spend the whole moving thinking, "That is Otto's suit that is Otto's suit that is Otto's suit."

It is a super cool suit but Peter wearing it would just seem wrong to me

Like Rhodey being Iron Patriot in IM3. I mean, what? So glad he went back to War Machine.

 

[Shademp]

So I just spent money on a device to transfer VHS footage over to my computer. Sadly the conversion is crap and leads to worse quality than what is on the original tapes. My wallet does not like this.

I was still able to get a good rip of the audio from the Swedish dub of Spiderman TAS and so I decided to combine that with the high-quality footage from an English upload.

I couldn't find the Swedish clip on YouTube and I felt this just had to be amended.

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler

Their best use of "BECAUSE I'M BATMAN" yet

 

[Joker]

So I finally saw this...

 

[Tennyo]

And...?

 

[Joker]

Lot of things I really dislike.

Lot of things I really like.

Overall? I give it a B.

I'll save my very long rant about the good and the bad for another post if wanted

but hey, best villain design in a spidey film ever

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Old review at this point, but I think it makes some really great observations about why "Homecoming" worked so well:

 

[Tetsujin]

Jake Gyllenhaal in Mysterio talks for Spider-Man sequel