[SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III Spoiler Thread

[Alex Strife]

I don't think being out of touch is good. But in the same way, listening blindly to the fans is a very poor tactic... there's a reason why fantasizing about things is fun, but more often than not, when those things become a reality, they fall flat. Because we're not developers, we're not experts on the matter.

Don't get me wrong, there may be TONS of good ideas from players. And some may even be better than what actual developers are doing. But I often find myself chuckling at those "I would do a better job" kind of statements. Armchair videogame designing, anyone?

Again, I'm not saying this is what you guys are saying, but I've too often seen fans going all: "Oh THAT would be cool" in some areas... and when they're listened, it turns out the idea was just... not particularly good. End result is a lot of money spent, fan trust lost...

Personal opinion? S-E should have a specific division for these things. Like a filter. That way, you don't get the actual main developers or directors in touch with the people and you don't risk losing that "objectivity"... while still getting someone to pay attention to the fans and filtering what actually IS a good idea and what isn't. And I am VERY sure Square can hire a team of 8-10 people to do that.

 

[Theozilla]

In addition to retaining “objectivity”, Nomura also said the other big reason he remains distant on social media is because he said he’s not good at controlling/limiting himself in what he’s allowed to reveal about production. That sounded like the bigger issue to me, that if he did use social media he’d liable to reveal too much about production (including things liable to change) so it sounds like it’s more an individual issue personality-wise for Nomura than anything else.

 

[ChipNoir]

I do recall that he was extremely frustrated with SquareEnix during Versus, with how much he got blamed for things that in hindsight were obviously problems at the executive level. Not to mention how he wanted to show a video clip at MAGIC and SE went "Nope."

 

[Tashasaurous]

Steve Burton apparently confirmed that he did not record anything for KH3, so barring patches/DLC Cloud is definitely not in the game. The only FF/SE characters are likely to be Twilight Town ones (so maybe Vivi, Setzer, and Seifer).

While I'm very disappointed about this news, I'm not surprised considering how Steve Burton didn't record for Super Smash Bros Ultimate either yet Cloud was in that game. Personally I don't think even Vivi, Setzer and Seifer are gonna be in KH3 either. Maybe he'll be called in for future DLC, but most likely not at this point.

 

[Lulcielid]

90 seconds of Aqua boss fight

"You don't know what true loneliness is"

"No help ever came"

"I've waited for so long"

"I've wandered the shadows endlessly"

This looks less like Aqua being norted but more like her having given up to darkness.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If that's the case, I will be thoroughly disappointed in the use of Aqua here.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Eh, it makes more sense for her to have fallen into darkness herself than to suddenly being made into a vessel of Xehanort's for what appears to be no reason.

Like, the more I thought about it, the more it made no sense for him to go after Aqua and make her another copy of him. Like, that's why I was dubious of the claims she was a vessel or whatever. It made like, no sense at all.

Yeah, she promised to tough it out but to essentially be left alone in the closest equivalent to hell in a place without time would wear down anyone's stoicism, even the strongest person.

...What I will fault the game for is the spoiler that Aqua fucking dies in this game which makes absolutely zero fucking sense and would just. Be incredibly stupid and wasteful of the one fucking relevant and important non-princess female character in the series.

 

[Tashasaurous]

This looks less like Aqua being norted but more like her having given up to darkness.

I'm thinking more along the lines that due to knowing that Aqua's in the Realm of Darkness and knowing she is to be saved, Xehanort sent in his 'Ansem' persona to take her on while she's at her weakest and do what Xemnas did to Sora in Dream Drop Distance and then simply just leave her there to fall into darkness with no one to protect her heart like Ven's heart did with Sora's, so that way it would give the heroes a much less of a chance to defeat him and he would ultimately win, kill off most of the Realm of Light's population and rebuild it in his own image.

I still think Xehanort is a Kingdom Hearts-ala Hojo and Sephiroth of Final Fantasy VII, with a mixture of Ultimecia of Final Fantasy VIII and Bhunivelze of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII.

Yeah, she promised to tough it out but to essentially be left alone in the closest equivalent to hell in a place without time would wear down anyone's stoicism, even the strongest person.

...What I will fault the game for is the spoiler that Aqua fucking dies in this game which makes absolutely zero fucking sense and would just. Be incredibly stupid and wasteful of the one fucking relevant and important non-princess female character in the series.

Well, they did kill off Strelitzia, people already liked her and in just two weeks since her introduction one of the new Foretellers-My bet's on Brain since Lauriam is now out of the picture due to him being her older brother, though if there'd be another plot twist, Ven could be the candidate-kills her and steals her book and Lauriam's focus is to find out where she is while fully unaware that she's dead.

Speaking of characters dying, while I still theorize and fear that Kairi is the candidate to die along with almost everyone else in the protagonist side(that includes Lea/Axel and now even the Disney Trio which I still can't accept that Disney would allow such a thing to their icons which makes me think that if Mickey, Donald and Goofy are killed off in KH3, then the next saga won't be under ownership of Disney anymore), I keep thinking that Terra's the top candidate to die in KH3 mainly because we have no idea where he is apart from being the Lingering Will, and he has yet to redeem himself.

I'm probably wrong, but Terra could end up making the only redeemable way of setting things right and sacrifice himself to ultimately end Xehanort in Sora's place...I said 'could', doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Makoeyes987]

There's just a genre reason that killing off Aqua would just be terrible.

She's the only female keyblade master of merit. She's been heavily built up and finally given a solid characterization that makes her more than a generic shoujo maiden of friendship. She's shown as competent, strong, and not just a damsel in distress or "Princess of Heart." She's the most complex and capable female character of KH we've got. She even got to be her own star in not just one game. She's literally the best shot of estrogen in the series.

If all that leads to her just dying for Sora or whatever, it's the most bullshit copout that'll make me sour on this franchise really hard. Like, it's not even funny. Her character arc could end really awesomely, or really poorly. Her being offed after all this shit would literally reek of the most unseemingly bullshit and wasted potential ever.

Because we're not getting Kairi being a competent keyblade wielder or ally. It's not happening. She's not playable, she's not part of the final fight, and look at the trophy list. It telegraphs Kairi being kidnapped AGAIN. At least in KH2 it was subverted and she broke out on her own and did shit. But now, we can basically say goodbye to any hopes of her evolving past that role.

Aqua is literally the only hope of a competent, badass and well-rounded female keyblade wielder. It'd be the height of stupidity to have her just die off after being corrupted and needing to be saved. Saved for what? To be a sacrifice? No thank you.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Try telling Nomura that. I mean, he did say a year or two back that he compares himself to Xehanort who doesn't care about anything other than seeing the real Keyblade War with his very eyes, survive it and prove the history of the previous one is true to rebuild the world and in his own twisted minded ways become it's God. Okay so the God part is not mentioned or anything like that, but the way how he controls everything at the moment is pretty damn close.

Personally I compare Xehanort as a mixture of Hojo and Sephiroth combined.

If you look back the history of some shows and games and such, they always kill off one or more of the most favorite characters and retire them because the directors felt it wasn't worth keeping them anymore. Even if KH3 is still Disney, things had changed and...I think Nomura planned on killing off Aqua a long time ago. Who knows, maybe we're being super paranoid and she might not get sacrificed.

And in regards to Kairi, at least she's IN a full battle instead of just being on the side and fighting off-screen. While it's more likely than not that Sora will be facing Xehanort alone in the ultimate final battle, with him fighting 'Ansem' with Donald and Goofy and that counts as three in KH1, then fighting Xemnas with Riku and that counts as two in KH2, so if they keep this up, it's one in KH3, maybe(and this is a BIG maybe) Kairi will be the first to be saved and she will join Sora in the final, FINAL battle before everyone else appears.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Try telling Nomura that. I mean, he did say a year or two back that he compares himself to Xehanort who doesn't care about anything other than seeing the real Keyblade War with his very eyes, survive it and prove the history of the previous one is true to rebuild the world and in his own twisted minded ways become it's God. Okay so the God part is not mentioned or anything like that, but the way how he controls everything at the moment is pretty damn close.

Personally I compare Xehanort as a mixture of Hojo and Sephiroth combined.

Well he wants to remake the universe with the help of Kingdom Hearts so it fits into his own personal ideal of Light and Darkness in equal measure, so that's very much a god complex. So yeah, it's an apt comparison.

If you look back the history of some shows and games and such, they always kill off one or more of the most favorite characters and retire them because the directors felt it wasn't worth keeping them anymore. Even if KH3 is still Disney, things had changed and...I think Nomura planned on killing off Aqua a long time ago. Who knows, maybe we're being super paranoid and she might not get sacrificed.

Just because it's been done a lot doesn't mean it's right or should be done. The woman being either a princess damsel in distress or a stepping stone to only serve as a development arc for the male characters or just a romantic love interest is a trope as old as time itself. Doesn't make it any better or somehow "good" with how cliche it is. If that's what he's planning on doing, that's pretty bad, especially given the direction he's taken Aqua.

And in regards to Kairi, at least she's IN a full battle instead of just being on the side and fighting off-screen. While it's more likely than not that Sora will be facing Xehanort alone in the ultimate final battle, with him fighting 'Ansem' with Donald and Goofy and that counts as three in KH1, then fighting Xemnas with Riku and that counts as two in KH2, so if they keep this up, it's one in KH3, maybe(and this is a BIG maybe) Kairi will be the first to be saved and she will join Sora in the final, FINAL battle before everyone else appears.

Being in the battle for a cutscene that ends with her getting kidnapped, and being in a fight off-screen we don't see or anything is functionally the same thing. She's not being shown to actively participate in battle with you, the player, as a party member.

Contrast that with Riku who in Kingdom Hearts 2 makes his badass debut as a party member and sticks around for the final fight against Xemnas. He's actively there, in the plot, kicking ass and taking names.

Why give Kairi a keyblade if she's never gonna use it in any meaningful way? It's pointless.

And spoilers: Kairi and Riku don't join Sora in fighting the final battle of Kingdom Hearts. In Scala Ad Caelum, it's Sora vs. Xehanort. One on one. At least according to the leaker.

So at the end of the Keyblade War in the Keyblade Graveyard, Sora's the only one left standing, and goes to fight the final battle. Riku is only briefly playable in the one tiny section of the World of Darkness, and he's the only other playable character. No Kairi doing anything at all. Surprise surprise!

 

[Tashasaurous]

Well he wants to remake the universe with the help of Kingdom Hearts so it fits into his own personal ideal of Light and Darkness in equal measure, so that's very much a god complex. So yeah, it's an apt comparison.

Which proves my point on what I said. If you played Final Fantasy VII and payed close attention to just how sick and cruel Hojo is, plus Sephiroth's illusion of merging with the Lifestream to become God, you'd understand that Xehanort is a combination of both, only with Kingdom Hearts.

Just because it's been done a lot doesn't mean it's right or should be done. The woman being either a princess damsel in distress or a stepping stone to only serve as a development arc for the male characters or just a romantic love interest is a trope as old as time itself. Doesn't make it any better or somehow "good" with how cliche it is. If that's what he's planning on doing, that's pretty bad, especially given the direction he's taken Aqua.

Has any of the Kingdom Hearts games made sense in the past? Plus, maybe Aqua won't die...but we'll have to wait for another fourteen days before the game is released for the rest of the world while it's being released in Japan ten days from now.

Being in the battle for a cutscene that ends with her getting kidnapped, and being in a fight off-screen we don't see or anything is functionally the same thing. She's not being shown to actively participate in battle with you, the player, as a party member.

Contrast that with Riku who in Kingdom Hearts 2 makes his badass debut as a party member and sticks around for the final fight against Xemnas. He's actively there, in the plot, kicking ass and taking names.

Why give Kairi a keyblade if she's never gonna use it in any meaningful way? It's pointless.

Probably the similar reason why Mickey never had much of a spot-light despite him being the main protagonist of the Disney Trio and always has been. People had been begging for him to be playable and it still hasn't happened. But she's been kidnapped because she's the only current Princess of Heart that's in two generations.

What sucks for me in regards for this is that Agrabah's not included and that World's story isn't over yet because Aladdin and Jasmine get married in the last film of the Aladdin Trilogy, yet they decided to throw in Pirates 3 without Sora getting involved in the second film's story, and while Genie doesn't return as a Summon, they bring back Ariel in her Mermaid Form despite her becoming Human and getting married to Eric in the Ending Credits of KH2.

It would've been nice to have her at least a party member with Sora and/or playable.

And spoilers: Kairi and Riku don't join Sora in fighting the final battle of Kingdom Hearts. In Scala Ad Caelum, it's Sora vs. Xehanort. One on one. At least according to the leaker.

Thought as much, unless the leaker is trying to convince us that KH3 is no longer worth the wait, like how FFXV wasn't worth as much as people had been waiting for in the ten years before it was released since they took too long.

So at the end of the Keyblade War in the Keyblade Graveyard, Sora's the only one left standing, and goes to fight the final battle. Riku is only briefly playable in the one tiny section of the World of Darkness, and he's the only other playable character. No Kairi doing anything at all. Surprise surprise!

Thought as much again. However, I did hear that there's another playable character that isn't just Sora or Riku. But no one knows who that could be though. May be Kairi, but most likely not because, as the rules of Damsels in Distresses go, "They don't suddenly become heroes. That kills their purpose" or whoever decided this rule anyway. Maybe that's why they didn't include Agrabah because Jasmine can kick butts in The King of Thieves film, since she single-handedly knocked out one of the Forty Thieves for ruining her wedding and she wasn't kidnapped like she was in the first two movies.

 

[Lulcielid]

36 seconds of Scala ad Caelum:

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well the leaker contradicted himself. Looks like Donald and Goofy make it to the final battle..

Oh wait. I guess something could happen to them before it starts or whatever. Hm. Well it looks like at least the trio make it out of the Keyblade Graveyard. And yeah, it looks like there really isn't much to do there, which sucks cause it looks awesome.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Or it could be a Mod Glitch code thing the leaker did to make it convincing. Maybe Sora rescues Donald and Goofy first as he makes his way to the final battle since Scala Da Caelem is after the Keyblade War and maybe, just maybe, he saves everyone before he has his one-on-one final match against Xehanort. Or it could happen before it...then again how would they know of this place before Xehanort?

Could be anything.

 

[ChipNoir]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1085083488859185152

This worries me, and further supports my concern that Disney has finally taken notice of how lucrative the KH franchise is. It means they may try to further intigrate it into their own branding, that means making some changes to the franchise that may not be welcome to the fanbase.

Focusing more on the Disney and kicking out almost all Square influences, nerfing the combat to be more kid friendly...This worries me.

 

[Makoeyes987]

LOL that's... Already happened.

DDD was the first sign, and KH3 confirmed it.

 

[ChipNoir]

LOL that's... Already happened.

That's what I mean. Combining the extreme hike in Disney branding out KH, with the apparent flaws of KH3, this is starting to become an apparent possibility.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Also look at the set of keyblades in the game.

There are only 3 keyblades that are unique Kingdom Hearts designed keyblades not tied to any specific Disney world. (Kingdom Key, Shooting Star, and Ultima Weapon)

0 Keyblades inspired by S-E characters/motifs.

And the rest are all Disney world originating Keyblades.

That should sum up everything about where the series is now.

 

[Lulcielid]

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That boss looks fun.

Interesting that there are 13 energy sperm that home in on Sora when Dark Inferno fires off that attack. I'm sure that number is no accident


Also, check out Kingdom Hearts occupying most of the sky above the Keyblade Graveyard there.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The boss is alright.

But that music is terrible. The lack of Yoko Shimomura really shows. That boss music sounds painfully generic, as if someone's trying to copy her style and failing.

I mean, the fact that that is the only secret boss in the game is disappointing. It's just okay. It's no Kurt Zisa or Phantom, if comparing heartless secret bosses. It looks like an Invisible that's been to the gym for the past ten years looking for revenge on Sora.

 

[Lnksmartt]

I can't wait until this game comes out. Just to see if its as bad I think it will be. I want to be surprised at home good it is, I have my doubts tho

 

[Tashasaurous]

I was meant to mention about another theory on why Kairi called Lea 'Axel' in the Final Battle trailer. The theory was that "Maybe the reason why Kairi calls Lea Axel because he decided to allow her to do so now."

Well, turns out I was right: In another Spoiler which I'll have to find again, in a quote, Lea informs Kairi that she can call him Axel.

Here's the link which is in the two minute commercial. Kingdom Hearts III commercial Not sure if it's the right one, but it's here anyway.

"Call me Axel from now on. Got it memorized?"

 

[Lulcielid]

18 minutes of Frozen world.