[SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III Spoiler Thread

[Lulcielid]

Final boss at Scala ad Caelum.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Ugh! Just looking at the image alone and Xehanort is still 100-times butt ugly!

 

[Theozilla]

The ending the leaks can access so far (i.e. not the epilogue/secret ending that the day one patch will add in).

 

[Tashasaurous]

Couldn't Nomura not like kill off Sora like that!? I wanted this kind of ending but not with Sora vanishing!...Looks like Nomura lied to us about Sora always being the main protagonist, which I knew most of the time....UGH! Oh well...least everyone else are okay, but I want Sora to have his happy ending! T^T

 

[Theozilla]

More complete longer version of the ending with the immediate post final battle cutscene plus the credits and Disney world “mini epilogues” that show during them like in the previous games and what the final Battle Report image looks like.

Edit: Holy shit I didn’t realize Master Xehanort’s new voice actor is Rutger Hauer (the main antagonist in Blade Runner).

 

[Lulcielid]

Spoiler

So four foretellers are credited but neither seems to appear in the game, or at least haven't appear on any of the leaks thus far, they will probably show up when Square releases the epilogue update on the 26th (for Japan).

 

[Tashasaurous]

...Meaning that Sora's story is now officially and he is definitely dead and will not return for the next saga. Thus Nomura has once again either changed his mind and decided a new approach(WHY DID HE HAVE TO KILL SORA LIKE THAT!?) or he once again lied to us about things that meant the complete opposite besides that Xehanort's now officially gone for good.

Maybe the reason why Sora's dead is because Nomura felt it was unfair to him that his favorite(Aka: Xehanort) died and the hero(our favorite) lives and thus decided to make us understand his suffering by killing Sora off for good, which I think is completely unfair since Sora deserves a happy ending with Kairi since she was saved at the end of it.

Edit: And in regards to the four Foretellers(wonder where Ava is), they could appear in the Epilogue, or maybe they'll appear in the Secret Ending and they could be the next antagonists of the next Saga...though I'm still shocked that Xigbar just committed suicide the way he did, and he was to be Xehanort's successor of that dark-evil Master of Master's Eye-Ball Keyblade? Yuck. Okay, granted, I kind of saw that coming, but I've been having visions of him pulling out that eye from the Keyblade and putting it in his eye-socket to replace the eye he lost to Terra in Birth by Sleep.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I have no idea why you think Sora is dead, Tash. We don't get any reason to think that in the ending. He says he's going to go find Kairi and bring her back. He apparently succeeds, then vanishes for reasons we don't yet understand -- but him randomly being dead isn't as plausible as this simply setting up his next adventure.

They're not going to kill off the main character off screen for entirely unknown reasons. They're just not.

We don't know why he vanished, but we also don't know how he got Kairi back or how long that took. We know just as much about both of these things, yet you are only drawing silly conclusions about one of them. Why?
----


Moving on.

So, I've watched everything that has leaked so far, but I'm still unsure what I think of the story. It's such an overwhelmingly happy ending and puts such a neat bow on most everything that I kind of don't want to be the one to acknowledge the elephant in the room: that way too much in this plot seems to happen simply because the event plan script called for it to occur next -- e.g. most everything from arrival at the Keyblade Graveyard to the end of the final battle. Especially that awkward transition to Scala ad Caelum or Master Xehanort's clumsy redemptive moment.

Also, where did Demyx go?

But the writing was never KH's stronger point. It seems to have at least done a great job with arousing emotions and making sure you feel something if you care about any of these characters. I love what was done with everyone at the end -- and how awesome were those Organization battles?

 

[Tashasaurous]

I have no idea why you think Sora is dead, Tash. We don't get any reason to think that in the ending. He says he's going to go find Kairi and bring her back. He apparently succeeds, then vanishes for reasons we don't yet understand -- but him randomly being dead isn't as plausible as this simply setting up his next adventure.

They're not going to kill off the main character off screen for entirely unknown reasons. They're just not.

We don't know why he vanished, but we also don't know how he got Kairi back or how long that took. We know just as much about both of these things, yet you are only drawing silly conclusions about one of them. Why?

Well, we have no idea if he's going to come back either, especially since the Japanese version of the Epilogue isn't until Saturday this weekend and then the Secret Ending next week. Plus they can kill off the main character even off screen if they wanted to for no reasons because they are the ones in charge of their games.

Plus, it's just a feeling that I have about Sora at least. And hey, I was right about Kairi getting killed even though she did come back sometime later after Xehanort is finally defeated.

Moving on.

So, I've watched everything that has leaked so far, but I'm still unsure what I think of the story. It's such an overwhelmingly happy ending and puts such a neat bow on most everything that I kind of don't want to be the one to acknowledge the elephant in the room: that way too much in this plot seems to happen simply because the event plan script called for it to occur next -- e.g. most everything from arrival at the Keyblade Graveyard to the end of the final battle. Especially that awkward transition to Scala ad Caelum or Master Xehanort's clumsy redemptive moment.

Also, where did Demyx go?

But the writing was never KH's stronger point. It seems to have at least done a great job with arousing emotions and making sure you feel something if you care about any of these characters. I love what was done with everyone at the end -- and how awesome were those Organization battles?

This was actually the kind of ending I wanted...though Sora not getting his wasn't what I had in mind but kind of expected. It broke my heart when Kairi didn't materialize and return to life shortly after the final battle.

I will admit that I'd expected a bit more exploration of Scala ad Caelum, and Xehanort's idea of wanting more Light rather than making things equal when he instead began to spread Darkness is a bit awkward. On the other hand, maybe he just wanted to see the legendary light to come into play and rebuild the world like how it happened in the first Keyblade War...even though Union X isn't clear on that part either, especially since the X-Blade hasn't been seen at all.

It was said that Demyx was like Marluxia and Larxene given the latter two being from the ancient times. Maybe he...hmm, perhaps the Plot Twist would be the he's the next antagonist and would be siding with Xigbar for the next saga.

Speaking of the Organization, I disliked Larxene a lot since she first appeared in COM, but both Union X and her fading away to become recompleted in KH3 kinda started to change my mind about her. Same with Marluxia.

 

[Lulcielid]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1086814623263850497

Nomura ripping off Gunslinger Stratos ?

 

[Lulcielid]

 

[Makoeyes987]

.... English translation please?

Like what... Is that even about?

Edit: Also, if you thought the Kingdom Hearts plot was fucking crazy and confusing now, you haven't seen ANYTHING yet.

The Secret Reports in KH3 are fucking nuts. Well, specifically the ones pertinent to Union X. Maybe it's because I haven't fully played Union X and I only have a cursory knowledge of the Foretellers, Dandylions and the Master of Masters but.

It's fucking bizarre.

The biggest plot twist of all though?

Xigbar/Braig... Is the true mastermind of it all.

Xigbar's true identity is Luxu. The Foreteller who was specifically given a task by the Master of Masters to take his keyblade (The No Name), pass it on, watch over the box and witness the keyblade war.

Luxu has been around manipulating and carrying on this task for years. He's jumped dimensions (worldlines?) much like the Dandylions did to escape the destruction of the universe from the first Keyblade War, and each time he jumps he loses his memories and has to find a new vessel to inhabit.

His job was to aid a 'certain person' becoming a pawn of the darkness, inherit the No Name, and get them to start a new Keyblade War. And this is all the will of the Master of Masters...

ANOTHER RANDOM ASSHOLE IN A BLACK CLOAK WHO'S IDENTITY IS OBSCURED AND SECRET. YOU NOTICE HOW EVERY NEW VILLAIN STARTS OFF AS SOME ASSHOLE IN A BLACK CLOAK???

I'm so glad I'll be free of this series after KH3. I can't.. I can't do this anymore. My head hurts. There's a limit to how convoluted a plot can become. I'll just stick to Final Fantasy. This is fucking bizarre at this point. World of Final Fantasy sated my lighthearted crossover hunger quite well without being so fucking confusing and scattered over half a dozen platforms. This is just unreal

...."May your heart be your guiding key" my ass.

But yeah. Surprise! Xigbar's the real mastermind! God. Nomura, it's time to stop. Seriously.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So, I've watched everything that has leaked so far, but I'm still unsure what I think of the story. It's such an overwhelmingly happy ending and puts such a neat bow on most everything that I kind of don't want to be the one to acknowledge the elephant in the room: that way too much in this plot seems to happen simply because the event plan script called for it to occur next -- e.g. most everything from arrival at the Keyblade Graveyard to the end of the final battle. Especially that awkward transition to Scala ad Caelum or Master Xehanort's clumsy redemptive moment.

....I want to address this because the revelation of the connection to Union X is exposed the absolute nadir of the worst aspect of the Kingdom Hearts plot.

It substitutes organic, natural plot progression and development with simply connecting every single damn thing to what proceeds it to give the illusion of a wholly connected and thought out narrative.

That's not how that works.

That's not how any of this work.

The plot of Kingdom Hearts does not feel like it organically flows in a natural or cohesive way because the plot is a huge, heavy, and cumbersome chain that connects every single fucking plot element backwards and forwards. Rather than have the plot naturally progress based on apparent and visible character actions and development, everything is a strange, vague and hidden retroactively bound plot thread that's subsequently bound to another vague, hidden and strange plot thread.

Compare how the plot of Kingdom Hearts started and was a natural progression of "Ansem", a "Seeker of Darkness" wanting to discover ultimate knowledge and truth by tapping into Kingdom Hearts via the forces of darkness. And in his attempt to do this, he strung together other evil hearted villains (Disney villains) to aid in his goal unknowingly.

Then, you go with the Organization drama of nobodies (the natural byproducts of hearts being snatched by darkness), wanting to pursue Kingdom Hearts in order to be whole, with the machinations of traitors trying to claim that power for themselves, and Xemnas wanting to selfishly take said power so he can be a god and rule over all hearts.

Birth By Sleep organically at least kept that theme with Xehanort, the original "somebody" of the two villains, wanting to initiate a Keyblade War so that he could find the true Kingdom Hearts and create a universe of balance between light and darkness. A very convoluted but easily grasped plot that at least held certain plot points similar to like Star Wars that were easy to grasp in how the struggle between inner light and darkness can cause one to make mistakes and separate you from what's important. For instance, getting your body stolen by an evil, powerful master of darkness in his attempt to live forever.

The plots felt organic. They progressed in natural, fluid ways that allowed balance between the Disney third, the FF third, and the unique characters of KH third because everything naturally flowed towards a visible and cohesive narrative where all characters could shine and perform visibly and consistently.

Dream Drop Distance was where it all went haywire. The time travel aspect was...interesting if a bit needlessly convoluted. But at the very least, it kept a semblance of consistency and built off towards what its climax was supposed to move towards. Sora and his friends, the "lights" of their universe, clashing against Xehanort and his... Other selves, the "darkness." All in an attempt to recreate a "keyblade war" that would result in Kingdom Hearts appearing once more. However, everyone being somehow connected to either Sora or Xehanort was strange and felt really bizarre. Sora had 4 different fucking incarnations/connections. Xehanort had 13! But whatever.

...But this shit... This shit with Union X is peak absurdity.

Namine is suddenly not just the nobody of Kairi, but potentially some hitherto unknown childhood friend of Lea and Isa they've been looking for who could potentially be someone from Union X from the distant past in another universe.... Xion may actually be someone else too! Ventus was more than just a lost boy who was taken advantage by Xehanort but as we've seen a dandylion fucking hundreds of years old from Union X and etc...etc...etc...

This is stupid. The retroactive changing of how these characters fit into the plot and who they REALLY are is getting old, really fast.

Braig/Xigbar being the TRUE mastermind is just fucking... What?

This is not how a plot organically moves. This is not how you add depth or additional plot. The Master of Masters is what? Who the fuck or what the fuck is he? Why is he in a black cloak? Why are they ALL in black cloaks? What the fuck is this?

People are going to savage this game for this. There of course will be those who eat it up, but this is not going to fly over well, especially with what was lost and the juxtaposition of nothing but Pixar Disney and the unique plot elements, the elements we NEED to see to justify all this shit, is not really shown but revealed in vague reports and sparse cutscenes.

People who have just played the core games from KH1 to KHDDD but didn't pour in hours and money in a freemium mobile game are going to fucking be confused as hell at this. How does this make sense?

Yes, the plot doesn't feel like it's organically moving or traveling a path of order or structure. It only feels like it's moving because it has to.

It feels like a runaway train that's flying down the rails only through the continued momentum of its boxcars slamming into it, now connected in hamfisted ways that serve no real purpose other than to create a further tangled web of sequels that will never. Fucking. End. The plot isn't moving because the characters are naturally growing and developing and interacting with one another, the plot moves because SURPRISE! It's another black cloaked dude pulling the strings and everyone is connected again!

Just. No. I don't understand how anyone would think this was a smart direction for the series at all.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Okay, I knew that Braig/Xigbar had something to do with it and hench forth that his dramatic 'suicide' meant he simply teleported away pretending he died, and maybe we need to understand Union X even more but...what do Cloud and Auron have to do with this? Isn't that just a picture of clay models from an interview and not actually in the game or something?

Unless the next Saga's gonna focus more on Final Fantasy worlds(which I doubt will happen), what's Brain's plot in all of this...unless Brain is also Luxu in disguise and was the Master of Masters ensured him to kill Strelitzia so that things would run smoothly...and there did this all come from?

Edit: Going through what I discovered, maybe 'Her' is actually Ava since number 1, her name is not mentioned in the ending credits of KH3 and two, she's the nicest out of all of them but could be more gullible. Couldn't possibly be Strelitzia less she's the one who ended up in the future, because I doubt Skuld is the one mentioned.

More likely scenario, like Ventus who was brought by Xehanort, and Kairi who could only remember her name when she first arrived on Destiny Islands and becoming close with Sora and Riku, Ava(Or Strelitzia or maybe Skuld*unlikely*), appeared with no memories and was discovered by Lea and Isa and so on...if that makes sense.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Makoeyes987

I guess your feelings on the story aren't too vague.

I'm honestly finding that I don't have a problem with much of anything about the game other than some relatively minor stuff. I am frustrated, though, with the almost complete abandonment of the FF characters, the limited number/unimaginative construction of special boss fights, and the lack of a coliseum.

It's also puzzling that there's no Critical difficulty, but I'm not as bothered about that as some of you will be.

However, the main storyline up to this point seems adequately wrapped up; the vast majority of the KH-specific characters got a satisfying ending, either narratively, thematically or both; and the plot here actually served to provide an adequate explanation for how several past incarnations of Xehanort were able to occupy the present -- and also then apply that explanation to solve the problem of bringing back Roxas, Naminé, and Xion in an organic, satisfactory fashion.

This last point in particular is an unusual high mark for the series.

Does the plot still plod along the way I described the other day? Do many things just seem to happen -- and happen in the ways that they do -- because that's what the plot or event planning called for next? Yes, absolutely.

See: Team Light getting a do-over at the Keyblade Graveyard after failing the first time; The Lingering Will showing up to save Ventus that second time when he was nowhere to be seen before; the unexplained disappearance of The Lingering Will following that confrontation, with its role seemingly replaced by Ansem's Guardian; the sudden appearance by Ephemera and subsequent rain of Keyblades; the transition to Scala ad Caelum from everyone hitting Master Xehanort with Keyblade beams; and other things besides.

Still, it feels like the character moments and story beats largely hold up and together even if the plot itself doesn't. Added to what looks like the kind of wacky, fun gameplay and combat shenanigans one expects from the series, I think KHIII is looking pretty solid.

Do I like the Luxu/Xigbar reveal or even think it's particularly good? No, not really. I've been of the opinion that time travel was bizarrely out of place in this series since it got a serious introduction in KH3D. That said, I do have to acknowledge where credit is due with the replica solution.

Maybe it's because my expectations for KH had gotten so low that I can be pleasantly surprised by KH3 for the most part, or perhaps it's indicative more of something about me and getting old, but I'm just not bothered by the Xigbar thing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

@Makoeyes987

Still, it feels like the character moments and story beats largely hold up and together even if the plot itself doesn't. Added to what looks like the kind of wacky, fun gameplay and combat shenanigans one expects from the series, I think KHIII is looking pretty solid.

Oh all those other things you listed previously disappoint me to hell and back, but I don't feel like expending anymore energy repeating that.

However yes, the character moments and present story wrap up of the Xehanort saga is fine. It'll be enjoyable and feel good but I'm criticizing the overall plot and direction that Nomura keeps pushing the series in, especially with the revelation from those reports. Overall, the game is gonna be like a B or B+ I imagine. It did what it needed to do, but it's nothing as amazing as say, KH2 or KH1 was back when they were released. But that's fine, it doesn't need to be since it's firmly cemented itself.

But the overall narrative? The overarching meta-plot it keeps trying to introduce with Union X to keep itself going? No, it makes no sense. It's trash.

Do I like the Luxu/Xigbar reveal or even think it's particularly good? No, not really. I've been of the opinion that time travel was bizarrely out of place in this series since it got a serious introduction in KH3D. That said, I do have to acknowledge where credit is due with the replica solution.

Maybe it's because my expectations for KH had gotten so low that I can be pleasantly surprised by KH3 for the most part, or perhaps it's indicative more of something about me and getting old, but I'm just not bothered by the Xigbar thing.

I guess this is what I get for having expectations.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Looks like Sora is now officially dead and he will not return for KH4(Not fair!), and the next Saga will be a prequel saga, a la Star Wars Prequel Trilogy.

Edit: Er, never mind. It won't be a prequel saga next. I mean, I knew Xigbar would get that dark Keyblade after Xehanort died, but I didn't expect him to be Luxu of all people since the two seemed practically different in personality. When I first saw Luxu in X(chi), I thought of him as mysterious, and in Back Cover, I thought of him as a shy young man who had concerns for his fellow Foretellers and was even grossed out when the MoM revealed the eye in the Keyblade was his actual eye-ball(which I'm still grossed out myself on that part), while Xigbar/Braig as a self-absorbed obnoxious bad guy.

Still, I have a feeling Sora is dead despite the chess piece young Eraqus was about to use for the new game(Aka: Kingdom Hearts 4-The beginning of the Foretellers Saga). Still, I think this should've been the Secret Ending rather than the Epilogue.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Tashasaurous
Where do you keep coming from with this nonsense about Sora being dead? There are a grand total of zero reasons to believe this.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Well, I thought the Epilogue would reveal a bit of Sora's fate while showing the rest of the gang including Kairi and the Secret Ending to show the Foretellers(excluding Ava) and I had the feeling for a long time that Xigbar would be wielding the Keyblade after Xehanort died even though I had the thought of Marluxia to be it, and while I had the two mixed up and the Epilogue showed what the Secret Ending would've revealed and pretty much confirmed a lot of people's speculation about Xigbar, I was heart-shaken and disappointed that Sora just disappeared and I don't think the Secret Ending will show us what happened to him.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Ultimate Form:

It's basically Armiger Unleashed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

....But what would you need that much power for?

It looks cool but from what most people who have played it have said, the game's not that difficult at all, even on Proud Mode. There is no Critical mode. And there's only 1 optional boss-like Heartless you can easily beat the shit out of with Second Form. With the amount of effort it takes to find the Orichalcum+ synth materials and other items, you'll have long beat the game by then.

So. What's the point? The game doesn't give you a worthy opponent to even use such a form with. Not like there's a Cavern of Remembrance (Remember that place?) where your Drive skills and ability to handle truly difficult mobs in limited space are put to the test.

It looks cool but it feels superfluous. I sure hope Square isn't stupid enough to leave the game as is.

Instead of retroactively writing Kairi's grandmother to be the true Mastermind behind the Master of Master's plan to use Sora's mother as the Nobody of the now completed Namine who's really just a future version of Kairi from the world-line in an alternate timeline of the next mobile spin off yet announced, force Nomura to get off his ass and add more content to this game that doesn't leave people's eyes glazed over in confusion. Because all it feels like now is an elaborate yet empty Disney amusement park.

 

[Lulcielid]

About the epilogue, here is the cutscene:

 

[Tashasaurous]

Instead of retroactively writing Kairi's grandmother to be the true Mastermind behind the Master of Master's plan to use Sora's mother as the Nobody of the now completed Namine who's really just a future version of Kairi from the world-line in an alternate timeline of the next mobile spin off yet announced, force Nomura to get off his ass and add more content to this game that doesn't leave people's eyes glazed over in confusion. Because all it feels like now is an elaborate yet empty Disney amusement park.

Uh...where'd you get the idea of Namine and Kairi both being Sora's mom? I thought Ava and/or Strelizia or even Skuld were the candidates in being Kairi's grandmother or what not and either one somehow ended up in the future in Radiant Garden.

 

[Makoeyes987]

...I was kidding. I was making a joke on how Nomura connects every character to one another to form a complicated web of superfluous and convoluted connections.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Oh. Okay then. Well at least the questions aren't as many as they had been for years now. The only questions now are new ones which are: What happened to Sora(apart from disappearing)? What went on with Ava to not be revived?(I'm thinking she may be Kairi's grandmother or something) What will Luxu(Aka: Xigbar/Braig) and the Foretellers do now and what are their new goals that will threaten the Realm of Light? Will the newly reformed Lauriam(Marluxia) and Elrena(Larxene) continue their quest to find and revive Strelitzia?

Though given how the Master of Masters disappeared, I think due to interfering with time may have caused this to happen even though with that guy it makes no sense since he didn't bother in changing the future like how Sora did to prevent his friends from getting killed and the Realm of Light swallowed up into Darkness.