Spoony versus FFX

[Vendel]

I read this as

"I think we can all agree with Spoony's opinion that Vendel is an annoying cunt"

Funny. I read your post as

"I am a huge douchebag"

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And I'm preeeetty sure that words can hurt people.

Could never really...relate to this on a personal level. Feelings aren't facts. Words can hurt, sure, but the capacity to get over them is there.

I dunno I'm not naturally a very sensitive person so while I can respect what you're saying and how it applies to you, I cannot relate to it myself. Feelings are fleeting, temporary things and only have as much power as you let them have. I'm sure I can forgive someone...*sniff* hurting my feelings, BAWWW if that person turned around, repented, and (helped) saved the goddamn world.

Proportion, man.

 

[Joker]

I'm just saying - the fact that he HELPED saved the world (lol) doesn't change what he did. It doesn't absolve him or anything. XD

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It absolutely absolves him. Forgiveness is attainable to nearly anyone. Holding people accountable for everything they do for their entire lives is silly, juvenile, and ultimately pointless.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It absolutely absolves him. Forgiveness is attainable to nearly anyone. Holding people accountable for everything they do for their entire lives is silly, juvenile, and ultimately pointless.

Then... it is juvenile for families of murder victims to continue to hate the person who took away their loved one if they do something to try and get themselves forgiven?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Then... it is juvenile for families of murder victims to continue to hate the person who took away their loved one if they do something to try and get themselves forgiven?

Ah yes, let's compare Wakka to murderers. I like this game.

 

[Joker]

Wakka was given no backstory to cover the past year. Who knows what he's done?

I'm just saying - someone saying they're sorry and doing a few nice things doesn't mean anything. If he continues to keep up that behavior, that's a little different. Like I said, I had no problem with him once X-2 rolled around, because he wasn't being a dick.

Then again, discrimination is something I'm familiar with, so.

 

[Max Payne]

I thought it was a comparison in direct response to that statement, not to Wakka's situation itself MOG.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Ah yes, let's compare Wakka to murderers. I like this game.

Well, you did say 'holding people to everything they do for their entire lives is juvenile, etc.' so i took everything to mean, uh, everything.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I thought it was a comparison in direct response to that statement, not to Wakka's situation itself MOG.

Yes, and I apologize; let me clarify, murderers are going to be a reasonable exception to the 'get over it' rule.

Wakka was given no backstory to cover the past year. Who knows what he's done?

He sure as fuck didn't kill anyone. And if you're going to go with the 'MAYBE HE DID WE DON'T KNOW' route this conversation is done, bro. I know you're smarter than that. The story does nothing to imply that Wakka's bigotry was anything more than distrust and some biting words.

I'm just saying - someone saying they're sorry and doing a few nice things doesn't mean anything.

Someone meaning they're sorry, however, does change things. Or at least it should, assuming that all parties are rationally, emotionally connected adults. And no, murderers and fucking terrorists don't count, Jesus Christ, before you bring up Al Queda again. Seriously?

Also being an instrumental person in saving the world should earn the guy a few brownie points, goddamn.

Then again, discrimination is something I'm familiar with, so.

As am I. It takes a powerful person to forgive.

 

[Joker]

Exactly. And not everyone is going to be capable of IMMEDIATELY forgiving someone for that sort of thing.

Thanks for the compliment, btw.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Exactly. And not everyone is going to be capable of IMMEDIATELY forgiving someone for that sort of thing.

That's all fair and good, but your last few posts absolutely imply that Wakka is an irreedeemable person because he was racist and that nothing he done or meant afterwards meant anything. This is what you said, now!

Let me clarify that there are two types of racists; malicious racism, and racism bred from ignorance. The best thing is that racism bred from ignorance is entirely curable and the person cured of it is usually a much better person afterwards, not even counting the fact that person is no longer racist. It takes a lot of strength and character to overcome that kind of character flaw, and yes, if the extent of that person's racism was just some... some MEAN WORDS then yes that can be absolutely forgiven and that person should be able to be absolved.

Wakka is clearly the latter, as a matter of fact, he has what's probably one of the most purest hearts and intentions in the entire series.

 

[Joker]

Like I said, I had no problem with him once X-2 rolled around, because he wasn't being a dick.

How does this imply he's unredeemable? XD

 

[Cat Rage Room]

How does this imply he's unredeemable? XD

I'm just saying - the fact that he HELPED saved the world (lol) doesn't change what he did. It doesn't absolve him or anything.

If actively turning against his religion, overcoming his prejudices (and meaning it, and being consistent with it), and risking his life to save the planet doesn't absolve him, I don't know what will in your mind. I'm just trying to get you to see what you're saying here.

You trivializing all he did to 'a few nice things' helps color my impression of what you're saying as well.

 

[Joker]

He also risked his life for Yuna, who's like a sister to him, and Lulu, and Chappu's memory...? -__-

At the MOMENT HE DOES IT, it changes nothing. It's a step in the right direction, but the real world has taught me that people tend not to change, so pardon me for being skeptical until it's shown in X-2 that he HAS changed. =/

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well if it means anything, in FFX-2, he and Rikku are friends, and he names his son Vidna.

Vidna is an Al Bhed name. It means "future."

I think its safe to say he's changed for the better.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

He also risked his life for Yuna, who's like a sister to him, and Lulu, and Chappu's memory...? -__-

Yeah that too.

At the MOMENT HE DOES IT, it changes nothing.

Why doesn't it? Wakka never really did anything that bad in the first place.

It's a step in the right direction, but the real world has taught me that people tend not to change

Actions speak pretty loud, even in the real world. Wakka proved his change of character quite capably in the game.

 

[Joker]

One action doesn't change years or contrary behavior, Mog. =/

 

[Cat Rage Room]

One action doesn't change years or contrary behavior, Mog. =/

Except the whole honest repentance and risking your life (multiple times) and consciously acting against the very institution that instilled the racism in the first place, also oh yeah that part where he helped release the entire planet from a millennium of misery. Nope not at all!

Proportion, bro. Don't tell me you let your feelings reign over your judgment to that extent, man.

 

[ForceStealer]

I agree, an action wouldn't change years if it was an action performed simply seeking that absolution. But the fact that he MEANT IT, does. No, in the real world you can't assume someone means it. But in the context of Final Fantasy X, its pretty easy to assume that.

 

[Joker]

I am naturally a skeptic and find it hard to believe that people change so quickly. =/

Maybe it's being overly mistrusting, but it's also not being overly naive.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I am naturally a skeptic and find it hard to believe that people change so quickly. =/

Wakka went through some shit!!!

Maybe it's being overly mistrusting, but it's also not being overly naive.

I'd wager on the former as far as this situation goes. Keep in mind that this is a narrative, and the narrative is at this point POUNDING THE PLAYER IN THE FACE with the fact that Wakka indeed changed and is sorry. There isn't much room for ambiguity on the matter because the writers got Wakka's change of heart across loud and clear.

 

[ForceStealer]

Incidentally, do you believe Rufus Shinra has changed by AC/DC times? Because in that debate I'm always taking the position you're taking now.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Incidentally, do you believe Rufus Shinra has changed by AC/DC times? Because in that debate I'm always taking the position you're taking now.

I think Rufus is a bit more complicated. He has motives yes, but he clearly relinquishes the degree of control over the Planet that he thought he had before.

His funding of the WRO does seem to have some ulterior motives to it, but nothing is quite that black and white; he does seem to feel genuinely bad for the fucked up shit that he, his father, and his company did, and as more time goes on and Rufus grows more and more into relative obscurity (and the Shinra Company is more and more of a fading dream), he'll mature up and change entirely, I think.

As far as being a sneaky bastard though, that's just part of his personality. Nothing too inherently bad about that on its own.

 

[Wiegraf]

I've been addicted to Spoony since this review. I agree with him on all of his points (though I don't really HATE FFX, I just don't particularly like the story. Or the characters that aren't Auron and Jecht. Or the voice acting etc)

I can't wait for the finale. FFX disappointed me. I absolutely LOVED XII. I think that it is my favorite not-FFT Final Fantasy. And when people started talking about how much better FFX was, I was expecting something mind blowing. I thought that it was very mediocre. I still bite my lip when someone bad mouths FFXII only to go on and on about how amazing FFX is.