The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Raidou]

This? EDIT: sorry double post

 

[Ryushikaze]

I also thought it was talking about Marlene.
In my language is meaningless. Thanks

Idioms, they confuse and confound.
Thinking it means Marlene at first is an understandable mistake, (Hey, our hero has a kid?) but the intended meaning becomes clear when you learn the existing connection between Cloud and Tifa.

Ah, yes. Okay, it wasn't a patronizing word for childhood friends, (osananajimi does mean childhood friends, though) just his general demeanor that makes it come off like that.

 

[Winter]

I always figured Sephiroth didn't kill Tifa because she.... wasn't that important.

Plot-wise, Tifa doesn't have much bearing on the events of FFVII at all, outside of being a part of Cloud's personal story arc. Sephiroth may have liked fucking with Cloud, but I don't think he really thought it through that much. He was fucking nuts. He likes screwing with Cloud's head, but he likes the whole fuck-the-world-up gig a lot more. Killing Aerith was useful for Sephiroth's eventual plans and also had the benefit of messing with Cloud.

 

[Tifabelle]

Killing Aerith was useful for Sephiroth's eventual plans and also had the benefit of messing with Cloud.

This I agree with.

Plot-wise, Tifa doesn't have much bearing on the events of FFVII at all, outside of being a part of Cloud's personal story arc.

This not so much. Tifa may not be as important as say Aerith or Cloud, but she's certainly crucial to the plot. Are you equating her importance to the plot to that of Barret's, Red's, or Cid's? The Lifestream sequence is the turning point of the game. Cloud's personal story arc is a part of the plot of FFVII, a major part. What is FFVII if Cloud is himself?


@Ryu - is it possible that the line does refer to Marlene? In Barret's totally canon date scene, he accuses Cloud of crushing on Marlene. /creepy

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

This not so much. Tifa may not be as important as say Aerith or Cloud, but she's certainly crucial to the plot. Are you equating her importance to the plot to that of Barret's, Red's, or Cid's? The Lifestream sequence is the turning point of the game. Cloud's personal story arc is a part of the plot of FFVII, a major part. What is FFVII if Cloud is himself?

Insofar as the overarcing save-the-world plot, she is not nearly as crucial as Aerith. She is important to Cloud's storyline, which does make her important, but she doesn't contribute that much to the actual fight to save the world.

 

[Dashell]

@Ryu - is it possible that the line does refer to Marlene? In Barret's totally canon date scene, he accuses Cloud of crushing on Marlene. /creepy

And he's pissed about the idea... so why would he want Cloud to see Marlene aka "his little baby" if he hates the fact that Cloud likes her...

and OMG so wrong XD

 

[Tifabelle]

Insofar as the overarcing save-the-world plot, she is not nearly as crucial as Aerith. She is important to Cloud's storyline, which does make her important, but she doesn't contribute that much to the actual fight to save the world.

She's definitely not as important to the central plot as Aerith or Cloud. But my point is that Cloud's personal story is intermixed with the central plot. They can't really be separated, so in effect she is important to the central plot through Cloud. None of the characters (except Cloud or Aerith) contribute to the actual fight to save the world, but she does have her own personal grudge with Sephiroth.


@Quex - but he wouldn't be saying "little baby" in an endearing way but a sarcastic "I'm onto you" kind of way.

 

[Ryushikaze]

@Ryu - is it possible that the line does refer to Marlene? In Barret's totally canon date scene, he accuses Cloud of crushing on Marlene. /creepy

@Quex - but he wouldn't be saying "little baby" in an endearing way but a sarcastic "I'm onto you" kind of way.

No, since the original line uses the Japanese phrase for Childhood friend, which can't be applied to Marlene.

 

[Dashell]

No, since the original line uses the Japanese phrase for Childhood friend, which can't be applied to Marlene.

Damn bias Cloti translators

 

[Tifabelle]

No, since the original line uses the Japanese phrase for Childhood friend, which can't be applied to Marlene.

Oooooh IC. I didn't realize it was a translation thing. I thought that's what it said in Japanese too. Gotcha, gotcha.

 

[Celes Chere]

that theory actually makes the most sense if you played through KH1 and CoM.

Hm... I did play them and I never saw that as logical. Though, the theory isn't completely wrong, Nomura said draw your own conclusions. =P In any case, I remember before Tifa showed up in KH, Clerith shippers (not all) were saying that Aerith being Cloud's light was true love, and so romantic, and all that. And there were no ideas about external and internal light, that idea only came around when it was actually stated that Tifa is Cloud's light... somehow, a new theory popped up as a defense against the truth. *shrugs* That's just how it appeared to me. ;P

 

[Dashell]

I guess I don't see anything wrong with making new arguments with new information, but the backpedaling does get old.

 

[Celes Chere]

Oh, I have no problem with that. But changing your opinion completely because Tifa = light? Obvious fail is obvious.

 

[Dashell]

I still want to know what Tifa's role was if she wasn't Cloud's light O_o

 

[Vendel]

I still want to know what Tifa's role was if she wasn't Cloud's light O_o

A desperate clingy whore who is constantly chasing after Cloud while he run towards Aerith?




Or something like that.

 

[Dashell]

I kinda meant besides that.

 

[Vendel]

I kinda meant besides that.

There is something else?

 

[Celes Chere]

A sex symbol for the entire game. BD

 

[Madame Mayor]

I guess I don't see anything wrong with making new arguments with new information, but the backpedaling does get lulzworthy.

Fixed.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I guess I don't see anything wrong with making new arguments with new information, but the backpedaling does get old.

There is nothing wrong with revising your arguments when new information comes out.
The problem comes with protecting the hypothesis with new made up rules the moment your argument turns out a conclusion you don't like, as was done with the romantic light argument which became the inner/outer light argument just to avoid admitting they'd been hoisted by their own petard, that both their specific argument and their more general arguments regarding AUs had been blown out of the water.

Oh, I have no problem with that. But changing your opinion completely because Tifa = light? Obvious fail is obvious.

Yeah, the data they 'changed their argument' over was 'Oh shit, this proves our desired conclusion wrong.'

I still want to know what Tifa's role was if she wasn't Cloud's light O_o

Deliverygirl? But yes, by insisting she's not his light, you really do miss out a lot of symbolism in the game, with Cloud facing down his darkness assisted by... FedEx?
I mean, forget the external logic of Cloud, Seph, and Tifa... how much sense does it make for a man facing his darkness to be assisted by a glowy person only to then glow himself and the glowy person not representing/ being his light? The symbolism would be uneven.

A sex symbol for the entire game. BD

I thought that was Goofy. You know you wanna, Teef.

Fixed.

Both are true. The backpedalling is tiresome, but it's also quite chuckleworthy.

 

[Tifabelle]

Yeah, the data they 'changed their argument' over was 'Oh shit, this proves our desired conclusion wrong.'

They didn't change their argument. SE are the ones who keep backpedaling and changing shit. Damn SE bastards. They don't know wtf they're doing.

And anyway, they make the story so complicated that you have to read between the lines and see what isn't there. But it's quite obvious to those that know the truth. If you clotis aren't intelligent enough to see it, I can't be bothered trying to explain it to you.

Both are true. The backpedalling is tiresome, but it's also quite chuckleworthy.

It's funny to a point. When it's starts getting into psychotic and illogically random arguments, I actually find it a bit frightning.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I typically get more frustrated with constant strawmen than with blatant backpedaling. Backpedaling is at least a sign of realization. Constant strawmanning is a sign of obdurate closemindedness.

 

[Tifabelle]

Oh alright, I just had a good laugh. Our front page friend responded to you, Ryu:

So then can you give me the concrete evidence that you rabid CloTi guys are all so proud of? The newer FF 7 compilation games do not add here – just the old game itself.

The funny thing here is that she demands evidence on a page that provides said evidence based on the OG. Then she wants you to provide examples that aren't from the Compilation because they "don't add here" - which is from the same person who previously included AU games as part of her own repertoire.

Then she talks about other stuff - I'm not sure where she's going with it though. Ryu, please respond! LOL. Also, ask her about coming to the forums again and see if she bites.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh alright, I just had a good laugh. Our front page friend responded to you, Ryu:

The funny thing here is that she demands evidence on a page that provides said evidence based on the OG. Then she wants you to provide examples that aren't from the Compilation because they "don't add here" - which is from the same person who previously included AU games as part of her own repertoire.

She demands evidence... after being given a list of evidence.

Then she talks about other stuff - I'm not sure where she's going with it though. Ryu, please respond! LOL. Also, ask her about coming to the forums again and see if she bites.

She is trying to dictate the terms of the argument. It is a game she will not win.
I've already responded, by the way.

 

[Tifabelle]

You know what's weird? I've seen it a couple times. People arguing that there was a lot of time between the Nibelheim incident (where Cloud clearly still has feelings for Tifa) and when they meet again in Midgar. While it's true there are 5 years, dude was basically in a coma for most of that. Generally you don't just wake up from a coma and have a total 180 on your thoughts/feelings.