The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Alessa Gillespie]

So now she's a liar and a troll mastermind who orchestrated the whole plot, huh. My how times have changed.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

She and Naru are the true villains of the LTD

and honestly, why WOULDN'T they?

But i'll give you that. They'd believe anything so long as it went against C/T. Hence, rival orphanages

 

[Fighter]

How the mighty have fallen.

 

[null]

Reliving the old times is giving me a wet rubbery one. You're all getting in the hot tub with me later.

 

[looneymoon]

Would you go punch out
the crazy hobo downtown?
spare him some small change

The retarded dog
ignores her master's order
is pitiable

Stupid speak for itself
Only dicks pick on the dumb
hurrdurr haikus rock.

 

[Splintered]

My problem is that one side is trying to paint the other as a collectively manipulative and fanatic audience, using isolated instances of stupidity.

koi_bito is one thing, it was something people fought for, and something they dropped later on. Not only that, it was dragged into other debates and people were so hysterical they were accusing other translators as manipulative.

Hell, I'd even give the whole KH "light and dark" incident to you.

But rival orphanages, no. Saying, hey, there's one post on a clerith forum, and maybe another in a different forum =/= wide spread belief. I still think that if it were, I would have heard one, just one, instance of it. And it is idiotic to use it as the "pattern of ignorance" because all fans were ignorant at that point. It was speculation, a lot stupider shit was said during this time. ie, Sephiroth was the guy in the white cloak, Zack is the wolf, Jenova is really in control, Aerith is coming back to life!

No one expects a full apology for these speculations because everybody knows that fandom likes making wild theories during times where we have no real information, or limited information. When more information was given out, they understandably adjusted their theories.

You can argue that whatever side you want is the worst one or whatever. But using 1. a best guess 2. that is not widely shared, to help you paint that picture is dishonest.

EDIT:

Oh, I missed the fandom fallback D:

 

[null]

spin doctors amuck
have selective memories
laughing my ass off

 

[OneWingedDemon]

No one expects a full apology for these speculations

Over there, the point is getting away from you!

It's not the speculation, it's the distance they had to reach to maintain their stance that Cee & Tee would never ever ever ever possibly be together. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING

 

[Splintered]

Over there, the point is getting away from you!

It's not the speculation, it's the distance they had to reach to maintain their stance that Cee & Tee would never ever ever ever possibly be together. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING

Oh, I get the point.

I'm being nitpicky. I'm not saying coming to this conclusion is wrong (even if I don't believe it myself). I'm saying that this particular instance should not be taken as evidence of their wild imaginations or whatever because of the context of this speculation.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Over there, the point is getting away from you!

It's not the speculation, it's the distance they had to reach to maintain their stance that Cee & Tee would never ever ever ever possibly be together. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING

This is what I tried to say earlier. You said it better so 'quote'. <3 U

 

[null]

believe what you will
threads, posts, forums disappear
but we don't forget

 

[Zee]

Like I said, what they did 5 or more years ago might not seem like a big deal, until you realize it's part of a pattern of behavior extending back more than five years, and one that still continues.

o okay

so then can winter and i bring up the times in faith that the cloti's ran out a neutral poster for simply saying that he believed in the possibility of aeris/cloud, or the fake interviews they built for the sole purpose of "tricking" the cleriths, or the "clerith handbook" that was up for years, or the backtracking with kingdom hearts and koibito?

totally fair game right?

 

[Winter]

bb I've been active for a looong ass time and I can tell you that argument was used by almost everyone. They all clung to it like a fucking lifeline. It was the universal response. People whose response wasn't koi_bito were in the minority. And that's me being generous. I don't recall a single different answer. Either they would ignore it, or say it was a mistranslation. Period.

Sell it to someone who had no clue what was going on cause this one ain't buying.
This 'it wasn't us' shit is irritating.

please define "almost everyone". please.

because I've been a member of CxA (and back in the day I was extremely active) for nearly 6 years and as far as I can remember I've never used an argument like that.

also until quex showed me that fucking wacdonalds interview I had never even HEARD of it. You guys make such a huge deal over what a ~terrible~ thing that was to do, and although it was stupid you need to understand nobody noticed it. Outside of maybe Cali I can't think of a single active member on CxA that even paid attention to that thing, much less used it as an argument in a fucking debate.

I was active on ACF for a bit, and I was active on CxA for years. You guys can sit here and circlejerk about how righteous and correct you are, but considering that most of us remember the fandom back then it makes you look stupid.

Faith was (for the most part) the biggest bunch of asshole shippers on ACF. It was ridiculous. The "april fool's prank"? Yeah.

jesus christ none of this even MATTERS idk why we're discussing it, but can you guys please just get over it? It's been like 4 years, and people like FF_G are NEVER GOING TO LISTEN TO YOU. EVER.

 

[Ryushikaze]

By saying that you make it seem like Zee believed that. She knew it was crap and even mentioned it on CxA before.

The thing about the koi___bito interview that annoys Zee and Winter and others is, it wasn't like they all got together, sat around a table and said, "Okay we're fucked, so maybe if we all lie, they'll shut up."

It was one little liar/troll who told them, "You know me and my friends don't use the word that way." and they believed it, and honestly, why WOULDN'T they?

Can you honestly tell me that if CoLW came out first and they were all happy and Hito or Tres or someone we knew really well said, "You know guys, I've been to Japan and they don't use the word to mean lover." You wouldn't listen? So yah, blaming all of that koi___bito nonsense on ALL of the Cleriths is pretty stupid. One Clerith started that, blame her. In fact other real Japanesish Cleriths that signed up later on said the interview was crap so it's not like the entire Clerith community believes that one.

Given the several people who WERE THERE have already told you that they did believe it, I won't belabor the point. I will just say that the rabids are unreliable narrators.

Fixed, she's not more than one person

Tori Amos makes two.

No one expects a full apology for these speculations because everybody knows that fandom likes making wild theories during times where we have no real information, or limited information. When more information was given out, they understandably adjusted their theories.

You can argue that whatever side you want is the worst one or whatever. But using 1. a best guess 2. that is not widely shared, to help you paint that picture is dishonest

It's not 'a best guess' but 'desperate scrambling', it was more than two posts, and no one expects an apology. Just recognition that mistakes have been made.

o okay

so then can winter and i bring up the times in faith that the cloti's ran out a neutral poster for simply saying that he believed in the possibility of aeris/cloud,

Was that done by the same central group of people as the current 'Faith?' Because there was a lot of Turnover. CxA is the same as all the way back then. And I'd expect them to toss people out over shoes rather than pairings.

or the fake interviews they built for the sole purpose of "tricking" the cleriths,

The April Fools interviews that were SIGNED 'Poisson D'avril?' Those were never used as actual evidence, never intended to be treated as real.

or the "clerith handbook" that was up for years,

All of the examples in the handbook were said and/or trumped by some of the most vocal and prominent Cleriths of that day. The Handbook was open mockery of stupidity.

or the backtracking with kingdom hearts and koibito?

Koibito has not been backtracked on by Clotis. And even if it has, it's certainly not to the ludicrious degree that FFG et. all have done.
As for Kingdom Hearts, it didn't count, it still doesn't count. You do realise that much of the reaction to KH2 was 'Hah, even by your own logic, you lose!' yes?

totally fair game right?

Everything is fair game, just make sure you've confirmed your target.

 

[Winter]

ryu it amazes me how readily you are able to make excuses for obnoxious behavior as long as the people in question ship c/t

 

[null]

Hey hey, I don't ship C/T and I can be as obnoxious as the best of them. Equal castigation for all, plz.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

or the fake interviews they built for the sole purpose of "tricking" the cleriths

LMAO. are you talking about that april fools?

or the "clerith handbook"

...which mocked the arguments? by all means, go ahead.

LMAO, Zee, LMAO.
Yes, by all means bring up an april fools joke and a book that was made to poke fun at arguments. (Clerith book of wisdom still around btw).

This clearly shows the desperation with which the Clotis clung to their ridiculous argum--oh wait. One is nonexistent japanese people making up nonexistent interviews and the other is poking fun at that. Are you serious? That's all you can bring up? Of course it is

or the backtracking with kingdom hearts and koibito?

...keep telling yourself that. I know you know full well KH is a landmind that exploded on ze Clerii and made them all butthurt because all of a sudden KH shows the light and true love of Cee Strife and then BOOM! BIG-BOOBED ONE SHOWS UP!

I assure you that repeating at nauseum that we backtracked will not take attention away from the ones who were actually backpedaling. The interwebz do not forget. They do not forgive.

You do realise that much of the reaction to KH2 was 'Hah, even by your own logic, you lose!' yes?

But it's more convenient this way

jesus christ none of this even MATTERS idk why we're discussing it

Faith was (for the most part) the biggest bunch of asshole shippers on ACF.

 

[null]

Also, speaking of making big deals about non issues, why do you even click on this thread Asuka?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

And this is why the LTD shall go on for eternity - both sides have some reasonable members and a lot of self-righteous pricks, who as such would rather throw the blame ball back and forth between groups before swallowing their pride and admitting their mistakes, lies and hypocrisy. I'm glad I never got into the LTD crowd full-swing. Far too much bad blood, and I've got enough enemies through FFWiki and that Terra VA stunt, I don't need some ridiculous debate like this to make more.

Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree? No "Fine we agree to disagree, but for the record we're right" or any shit like that, because I KNOW there are people here who would do just that (and you know exactly who you are). Just leave each other alone for crying out loud. If you wanna discuss it fine, but it doesn't need to be this huge drama. There are more important things to hold years-long grudges over than a debate on the Internet about which fictional characters love who. I do not understand, and do not *want* to understand, how the LTD can spark such vicious hatred.

I think I've said it before but I'll say it again - if the Cloti and Clerith fandumbs were given collective human forms, I'd knock their heads together. Several times. I'll be fair, I'd throw my own head in there once or twice because hey. But really, both sides need a smacking, because if being a member at CxA, then a member of this place, both for considerable periods of time, has taught me anything, it's that the two sides are more alike than they are different, in all the wrong ways.

 

[crack]

I always think I'm reading someone's livejournal when I lurk this thread. :C

 

[null]

And this is why the LTD shall go on for eternity - both sides have some reasonable members and a lot of self-righteous pricks, who as such would rather throw the blame ball back and forth between groups before swallowing their pride and admitting their mistakes, lies and hypocrisy. I'm glad I never got into the LTD crowd full-swing. Far too much bad blood, and I've got enough enemies through FFWiki and that Terra VA stunt, I don't need some ridiculous debate like this to make more.

Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree? No "Fine we agree to disagree, but for the record we're right" or any shit like that, because I KNOW there are people here who would do just that (and you know exactly who you are). Just leave each other alone for crying out loud. If you wanna discuss it fine, but it doesn't need to be this huge drama. There are more important things to hold years-long grudges over than a debate on the Internet about which fictional characters love who. I do not understand, and do not *want* to understand, how the LTD can spark such vicious hatred.

I think I've said it before but I'll say it again - if the Cloti and Clerith fandumbs were given collective human forms, I'd knock their heads together. Several times. I'll be fair, I'd throw my own head in there once or twice because hey. But really, both sides need a smacking, because if being a member at CxA, then a member of this place, both for considerable periods of time, has taught me anything, it's that the two sides are more alike than they are different, in all the wrong ways.

Again, X, red, corner.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Pardon?

 

[Winter]

LMAO, Zee, LMAO.
Yes, by all means bring up an april fools joke and a book that was made to poke fun at arguments. (Clerith book of wisdom still around btw).

This clearly shows the desperation with which the Clotis clung to their ridiculous argum--oh wait. One is nonexistent japanese people making up nonexistent interviews and the other is poking fun at that. Are you serious? That's all you can bring up? Of course it is

I assure you that repeating at nauseum that we backtracked will not take attention away from the ones who were actually backpedaling. The interwebz do not forget. They do not forgive.

Dude, just because you "weren't being serious" doesn't mean you weren't still acting like obnoxious assholes. I know there were plenty of C/T shippers around ACF that hated Faith because you guys were so fucking rude and over-the-top.

Zee keeps mentioning the backpedaling because she was AROUND back then, she wasn't even into C/A when she first entered this fandom. Once upon a time Zee was a massive C/T shipper, believe it or not. She was actually a MEMBER of Faith, jfc it's not like she's just making this up.

i mean i know you guys backpedaled too, but i know you'll never take my word for it <3

REGARDLESS that's not even what this is about. I don't really give two shits whether you were right or not, and I don't give two shits whether or not people on both sides of the argument made tons of shit up. What matters here is that everyone on either side of the LTD has had moments of GRAND assholery. some of us, however, can admit it.

Also, speaking of making big deals about non issues, why do you even click on this thread Asuka?

because I uh, like this thread? Some of the best character discussions and such have gone on around these parts, and I like most of the people in here.

nonetheless, I hate when it becomes a gigantic let's-make-fun-of-CxA-to-make-ourselves-feel-better circlejerk. it's fucking annoying, and the conversation steers in this direction every so often. aaaand just about every single time it does I feel no hesitation in expressing my dissatisfaction.

jesus dicks

 

[DrakeClawfang]

nonetheless, I hate when it becomes a gigantic let's-make-fun-of-CxA-to-make-ourselves-feel-better circlejerk.

And then they wonder why their membership is down and complain there aren't many Cleriths to debate with.

 

[null]

And then they wonder why their membership is down and complain there aren't many Cleriths to debate with.

You don't think membership being down has more to do with the compilation being abandoned and no new entries in sight?