The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Alessa Gillespie]

Not worked up? Says a person who wanted to kill Nomora over Tifa being in KH2?

And that screen cap took me about 30 seconds to find. It was in a thread helpfully titled "orphanage". So little time to produce so much bitching from you.

Worth every second.

lets also bring up some strifeheart posts, leik aerith being a total slag who sucks peoples dicks for money

owait people jokingly say that in this thread and dont care about aerith, nevermind

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

In KH1, the argument is that Cloud was searching for his light. His light must be Aerith and this must have romantic connotations. This argument is flawed and makes several invalid assumptions, but that's neither here nor there. Come KH2, and the revelation that Tifa is Cloud's light. In addition to the denials that Tifa COULD be Cloud's light, there came hasty redefinitions of this argument to create the inner and outer light distinctions, so Aerith could be his inner light and Tifa his outer light.

I think I asked this before and never got an answer, but does anyone know when that inner/outer light theory first emerged? Because I'd swear that I gave FFG the idea last year when I legitimately believed it possible due to Tifa being a manifestation of something within Cloud, while Aerith was obviously not.

Of course, I no longer believe in that possibility, as hito pointed out that the Japanese version of the first KH has Cloud saying that he lost sight of the light (obviously general), not that he couldn't find it (potentially specific and personified). As well, there's the notion you've mentioned, Ryu, that a person's light could be said to inhabit/be reflected in another a la Sora and Kairi, and that this light is no different conceptually from the light within Cloud that manifested as Tifa. And, of course, there's the fact that being a person's light doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic thing.

Anyway, my point is, unless others had mentioned this idea before I did and FFG just never noticed, I'm pretty sure it was something I came up with and not something that was conceived by Clerith Fundamentalists in a scramble. I suggested it in a debate with FFG and she said she'd never heard such an idea before, but could get behind it.

Certainly I never saw her mention it before that, and I'd been debating with her about KH for quite a while by that point.

So does anybody know for sure how long that idea has been around?

What matters here is that everyone on either side of the LTD has had moments of GRAND assholery. some of us, however, can admit it.

In that spirit, I'll admit my Hitler video was one of the grandest moments of assholery in the course of the LTD. But I'd so do it again.

 

[Ryushikaze]

lets also bring up some strifeheart posts, leik aerith being a total slag who sucks peoples dicks for money

owait people jokingly say that in this thread and dont care about aerith, nevermind

Strifeheart was an abhorrent shithole. No one denies that. But Strifeheart does not still continue and Tana is regarded and condemned soundly today. That's part of the key difference. Bullshit from CxA is still bring spread- and not as a joke- and treated as having any sort of authority.
No one really gives a shit when you point out Tana's behavior is shit, was shit, and continue to be shit.
Why get upset about it when it is said about people on the opposite side who you all do not like, who did, do, and will continue to act in a poor manner? And generally in less harsh tones than we speak about Tana.
I'm curious when the thread turned into a circle jerk, exactly. Was it Vendel's comments? If so, Blast Vendel.

Aki, I'm not sure who joked about Aerith sucking dicks, or the context surrounding the joke, but we kinda make fun of all the characters at one point or another. Mostly Cloud, Sephiroth, Zack, and Mukki.
Who and when was that, BTW?

Tres- It is from earlier ago than last year, I can assure you of that. I am not sure where the distinction first arose, but it was in response to KH2, before your extended talk with FFG.
TFC might still have a record of some of the fallout on that front.

On Assholery, both sides have and still have assholes. That I have no problem with, on either side, so long as the assholery doesn't replace actual arguments.
It's intellectually dishonest asshats I have a problem with. Intellectual dishonesty does replace actual arguments.

 

[Zee]

Zee keeps mentioning the backpedaling because she was AROUND back then, she wasn't even into C/A when she first entered this fandom. Once upon a time Zee was a massive C/T shipper, believe it or not. She was actually a MEMBER of Faith, jfc it's not like she's just making this up.

I had already gone to bed but thank you for bringing this up. I love how I've been a part of this fandom and in these threads actively for years and now people like to play selective memory and forget I was a member of Faith and debated against Anastar and FF_G plenty of times.

also lol at the time a good friend of mine was the owner of the largest cloti site on the web and hosted her own forum, and the majority of us there still thought you were losers who wasted hours of your life wanking about the cleriths, so it has nothing to do with shipper bias.

sure some will DIE FOR THEIR SHIP but that doesn't mean you assholes don't have a petty, ridiculous obsession with them. cxa is not even that active anymore and i find it funny that the only two actual members of that forum here frequent it less than you guys.

I mean, if there's a lunatic nutjob yelling on the street every day, the average joe that screams back at him is either a gigantic asshole, or just as much of a nutjob as the lunatic. I feel like I'm at the point where I have to stick my head out the window and yell at everyone to stfu because I'm trying to enjoy my programs.

can we get married already?

Bullshit from CxA is still bring spread- and not as a joke- and treated as having any sort of authority.

you do realize 90% of the time it's because YOU KEEP POSTING IT

 

[null]

Re: "your side does it too" - if my "side" is full of crap then by all means, call them out on it. We take a risk with everything we post. If bitches can't handle being criticized or ridiculed then then the internet is probably not the place for them. The uproar seems to always have something to do with someone being overprotective of their friends.

Re: Aerith - yes, she loves Cloud now and clearly thinks they were heading somewhere. I never understood what the big problem with that was.

Re: being classy -

Spoiler: crank it up

 

[Rinoa]

As a neutral, I have never seen a debate happening. Debate requires valid points on both sides and I've seen no such points from the "Clerith" side.

All I see is a feeble trolling attempt.

a good friend of mine was the owner of the largest cloti site on the web and hosted her own forum, and the majority of us there still thought you were losers who wasted hours of your life wanking about the cleriths

 

[Zee]

i thought i'd just add this:

when a topic in cxa is getting stupid winter and i are usually the first ones to say something. i recall a few people here giving out a few pats on the back for saying something, actually. but when we call out what we find to be similiar bullshit in this thread, suddenly there's a thousand excuses why the behavior is acceptable here and not there.

get over the asspain, your side is just as ridiculous.

@Rinoa:

>As a neutral
>no such points from the "Clerith" side.

lol yeah no


also lern 2 gif

 

[Splintered]

I always wondered why when we talk about the "clerith side" we include Anastar and FFG, but not people like Zee or Asuka or Drake?

People are bringing it up because it's a widespread problem on this forum. And it's been said more than once but everyone's so busy making excuses for others behavior that no one wants to change.

It's annoying because people are taking one argument from a specific group and using it to say, "hey look, look at what everyone in this group believes! Those lol 'pinkers'." But the problem is that enough of the members here are 1. cleriths or 2 have clerith friends- and many of them don't argue like that. So yeah, it is going to piss people off eventually.

I've done my share of mocking. But mocking a specific argument that pops up versus an entire fandom that may or may not share this idea is different. Especially since it never dies, everyone feels it necessary to drag up arguments to say "SEE! SEE WHAT YOU SAID SO LONG AGO, Even if it wasn't really you saying it, and it was only an argument a few people made, and it was a time where no one really understood what was going on, YOU GUYS ALWAYS MAKE SHIT UP!" I's worse when these incidents are way over-exaggerated (ie rival orphanages)

 

[Tifabelle]

I always wondered why when we talk about the "clerith side" we include Anastar and FFG, but not people like Zee or Asuka or Drake?

But do you think that when people talk about the "mean clotis" they make exceptions for those of us that aren't. I'm pretty sure we're all lumped together.

No one makes a distinction when they say "clotis believe this or that". It comes from both sides to be sure, and I don't think anyone truly believes that it's every single solitary person.

Do you think every time someone says "Tifa fans only like her because of her boobz" that I get all crazy about it? Of course not. It's dumb, and most people know that. I don't feel the need to rage over the internet because someone lumped me in with boob-obsessed males.

 

[Fighter]

I feel so utterly shamed over my unhealthy obsession....

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Class: usually achieved by claiming moral superiority and pretending you are above the butthurt you feel because you don't complain in a public forum, but a dark, pink corner of the internet.

 

[Ryushikaze]

you do realize 90% of the time it's because YOU KEEP POSTING IT

I'm posting it?
Even if we're limiting ourselves to shit brought up here- which I was not, I actually do see stupid rabid fuckery being dissimenated on other forums- I'm not much involved in posting it. It sounds like your complaint is with Vendel. Roast his ass.

You think we're being ridiculous? The way you've acted in the last day is not the way to go about doing it.
If you see people spewing bullshit, address that person, call their bullshit, and explain their bullshit. Don't accuse people en masse of shit in ill explained sarcastic jabs or unilaterally declare we're doing the same bullshit without explaining the bullshit.

@Splintered- Who's not including them as part of Cleriths as a whole? We aren't including them as rabids.

And no one is saying 'you all', well, maybe Vendel. I'm not. I'm saying RABIDS do stupid shit. Unless Zee self identifies as a Rabid, my comments aren't directed at her.

 

[null]

I always wondered why when we talk about the "clerith side" we include Anastar and FFG, but not people like Zee or Asuka or Drake?

Zee and Asuka and Drake never made hilarious websites dedicated to spreading comically bad misinformation and straw man "talking points" in order to win an internet argument via the ad populum fallacy.

Simple as that.

Also, I like Zee and Asuka and Drake. I'm an asshole, therefore I can pick and choose the other team. Being an asshole is very liberating.

 

[null]

I feel so utterly shamed over my unhealthy obsession....

I'm ashamed that we only obsess like twice in as many years nowadays. I miss you guys!

 

[Fighter]

I'm ashamed that we only obsess like twice in as many years nowadays. I miss you guys!

Need to kill the remnants of that pesky 'life' thing.

 

[Splintered]

Who's not including them as part of Cleriths as a whole? We aren't including them as rabids.

Ehhh, that's what people say but honestly, the way it's applied doesn't feel like that. Everytime a legitimate debate pops up, I feel like the clerith side is reduced to the lowest common denominator.

For example, discussing how reliable Aerith is a narrator when talking about koibito= good debate in my opinion. It brings in author's intent, whether or not Aerith is aware of Cloud's feelings, how far did their relationship develop, excetera. But as soon as that pops up, people immediately drag the "this argument is stupid because look, a while ago some people used koi_bito, and therefore all Clerith discussion on anything koibito isn't worth my time." It's silly.

Also, I like Zee and Asuka and Drake. I'm an asshole, therefore I can pick and choose the other team. Being an asshole is very liberating

This, however, is an answer I can accept.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I always wondered why when we talk about the "clerith side" we include Anastar and FFG, but not people like Zee or Asuka or Drake?

That's why I have my own title for the folks like FFG and Cali (Clerith Fundamentalists), while those other three are just ordinary Cleriths. A comparable title could be made for some Clotis as well.

Vendel They knows who he is they are.

People are bringing it up because it's a widespread problem on this forum. And it's been said more than once but everyone's so busy making excuses for others behavior that no one wants to change.

I agree. Being on the side that's ultimately right doesn't make an overly aggressive approach to the discussion or anything said in the name of said correct stance ultimately justifiable.

'Course, I've been saying that since I signed up more than a year ago. Mako in particular actually got a lot better about it, though. The guy has really mellowed out over the past year.

Hey, there's an idea, folks: let's stop talking about the Clerith Fundamentalists and start talking about Mako. Personally, I find that way more fun.

It's annoying because people are taking one argument from a specific group and using it to say, "hey look, look at what everyone in this group believes! Those lol 'pinkers'." But the problem is that enough of the members here are 1. cleriths or 2 have clerith friends- and many of them don't argue like that. So yeah, it is going to piss people off eventually.

I've done my share of mocking. But mocking a specific argument that pops up versus an entire fandom that may or may not share this idea is different. Especially since it never dies, everyone feels it necessary to drag up arguments to say "SEE! SEE WHAT YOU SAID SO LONG AGO, Even if it wasn't really you saying it, and it was only an argument a few people made, and it was a time where no one really understood what was going on, YOU GUYS ALWAYS MAKE SHIT UP!" I's worse when these incidents are way over-exaggerated (ie rival orphanages)

How do I thank this post twice?

By the way, meant to reply to this earlier:

I always wondered. Even in my sleep. Whether if this was a actual LTD thread or deep inside it was a 'mock C/A ' thread in disguise. Though then the main C X A forum Destiny Fulfilled mocks and insults Cloti all the time. Sometimes wonder if would be better to just say that Cloud has a fricken secret crush on Sephiroth and then just let things be. Both sides of the LTD has "it's 'lets bash the other group, because we can ". It's ridiculous. Not saying that the Cleriths and Cloti should hold hands under a fricken rainbow of peace, but maybe actually seriously debate about it, rather than just being jerks about it.

No serious debates happen about it these days amongst the two groups who insult each other constantly because one group refuses to debate. Debate of the LTD isn't even allowed at CxA.

There was an experiment last year at having a forum with Cloti and Clerith mods and admins, where the LTD could be debated, but it didn't turn out so well. The Clerith admin allowed one of his mods to have multiple accounts despite that being a bannable offense according to the site rules, bullshit was called, admin admitted he didn't care about enforcing the rules on his own troops, a Cloti mod () told said admin to go fuck himself, and the forum was promptly shut down by the same admin.

The Cloti admin opened a much more reasonably (i.e. sane) managed forum afterward, however:

http://killthemongoose.com/tnc/index.php

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ehhh, that's what people say but honestly, the way it's applied doesn't feel like that. Everytime a legitimate debate pops up, I feel like the clerith side is reduced to the lowest common denominator.

The lowest common denominator is often the loudest and the one that needs to be told to shut the fuck up.

For example, discussing how reliable Aerith is a narrator when talking about koibito= good debate in my opinion. It brings in author's intent, whether or not Aerith is aware of Cloud's feelings, how far did their relationship develop, excetera. But as soon as that pops up, people immediately drag the "this argument is stupid because look, a while ago some people used koi_bito, and therefore all Clerith discussion on anything koibito isn't worth my time." It's silly.

I think we did the exact opposite this time, actually, moving from 'Oh fuck, Koi Bito' to an actual discussion of Aerith's narrative role.

On the other hand, the Koi Bito debacle was a lot more prevalent than Zee or LV want to cast it as, and several rabids, rabids involved in the proliferation of the lie, want to ignore it entirely and cast aspersions of backpedaling on others. It gets old.

In fact, back when COLW first dropped, most of the initial response WAS actually discussing the role of the narrator, the meanings, the intersections of meanings with the overall canon, and the like. And then the Fundamentalist Clerith circle ruined everything.

We've tried to act in good faith to those people before. It has failed to work on repeated occasions. They have wasted their chance, in my opinion.
You don't like that people here are mean, but the people we're mean to are people who have earned it. People like FFG, Shroudyfucker, Tana, and the like.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

That's why I have my own title for the folks like FFG and Cali (Clerith Fundamentalists), while those other three are just ordinary Cleriths. A comparable title could be made for some Clotis as well.

Vendel They knows who he is they are.

If you're looking for terms to use to refer to Vendel, I have a few choice ones I can offer.

 

[null]

This, however, is an answer I can accept.

I use public toilets and piss on the seat
I walk around in the summertime saying "how 'bout this heat?"

I'm an asshole
I'm an asshol-e-ol-e-o

Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces
While handicapped people make handicapped faces

I'm an asshole
Such an asshol-e-ol-e-o

 

[Splintered]

I use public toilets and piss on the seat
I walk around in the summertime saying "how 'bout this heat?"

I'm an asshole
I'm an asshol-e-ol-e-o

Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces
While handicapped people make handicapped faces

I'm an asshole
Such an asshol-e-ol-e-o

This song is actually on one of my playlists.

Now everytime it plays, I'm going to imagine Vendel singing it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If you're looking for terms to use to refer to Vendel, I have a few choice ones I can offer.

Truly, when are you two going to get around to making babies?

 

[Ryushikaze]

They did. We had to put them down.

Took a lot of bullets.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Aki, I'm not sure who joked about Aerith sucking dicks, or the context surrounding the joke, but we kinda make fun of all the characters at one point or another. Mostly Cloud, Sephiroth, Zack, and Mukki.
Who and when was that, BTW?

You do often joke that Aerith 'sold her flower' as joke evidence to counter points of... well idfk. But you do joke about Aerith selling herself as a prostitute, which is essentially the same thing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I fail to see the problem in stating the obvious about Aerith's whoredom, when we all know how Wedge really got his free meals at Seventh Heaven.

He was doing a lot more eating out while living in the slums, than a lot of people realize.