The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Dashell]

Well I would assume something saying she loved Cloud more would mean she's for sure moved on from Zack

At least I think it would.

 

[Tifabelle]

I have to be honest. I'm having trouble following this conversation.

 

[Dashell]

Okay this was my bad. I want to prove she moved on from Zack and truly loved Cloud. I figured CoLW saying, "Cloud was her beloved" would prove this... but I guess it doesn't. So then I figured, well her saying she loved Cloud more would probably do it because... that would most certainly mean she's over Zack, right?.. but.. yeah...

I guess not...

 

[Madame Mayor]

after 5 years and admitting she was in love with another man

Over that time she was writing him letters, wearing pink, chasing another man because he reminded her of him. No, that doesn't scream moved on at all. Then there also SE saying her feelings for him were still affecting her actions.

Well I would assume something saying she loved Cloud more would mean she's for sure moved on from Zack

But your two sources for this are Maiden which isn't canon and isn't really saying that anyway, and Dismantled which from what everyone else takes from it is outdated in that section.

 

[Tifabelle]

If she did get over Zack (which I don't think she did), it would have to be somewhere in the two weeks of her knowing Cloud. During which time all he did was remind her of Zack.

 

[Dana Scully]

I don't understand why people have so much trouble with the notion that you can love more than one person.

She loved Zack. She loved Cloud. Her love of Cloud does not magically negate her love of Zack, and her love of Zack would not stop her from growing to love Cloud for being Cloud.

Or am I missing a point somewhere?

 

[Ryushikaze]

In this thread: you can't possibly have a non fucking ship related reason for thinking Aerith isn't over Zack.

Seriously, she does give off very mixed signals. It's not about any sort of threat to C/T. It's about Aerith's own narrative.

Some of us actually care about the story much more than pairings, and only care about pairings as a derivative of the story and characterizations.
I'm one of them, believe it or not.

 

[Vendel]

There has been but I don't feel like looking for it. (mostly Vendel :awesome)

 

[Winter]

YACCBS, ty for being logical and awesome.

I personally think she was far from still being in love with Zack, and for the most part she hurts because their parting was so rough. However, regardless, she was in love with Cloud.

She was not projecting, in denial, or still so in love with Zack that she really didn't "love" Cloud.

i would think this would be fairly straightforward, holy hell

 

[Madame Mayor]

It's not about any sort of threat to C/T. It's about Aerith's own narrative.

Thank you.

 

[Dashell]

I don't understand why people have so much trouble with the notion that you can love more than one person.

She loved Zack. She loved Cloud. Her love of Cloud does not magically negate her love of Zack, and her love of Zack would not stop her from growing to love Cloud for being Cloud.

Or am I missing a point somewhere?

No I'm fine with this, I just don't see why her love for Cloud has to be like put down you know? Why it has to be she didn't really love Cloud. Or she didn't move on... or Cloud is just a symbol or something. She loved Cloud and Zack... just differently. That's all I want to get across.

Seriously, she does give off very mixed signals. It's not about any sort of threat to C/T. It's about Aerith's own narrative.

That's... ... something I wouldn't expect from you and I agree.

She was not projecting, in denial, or still so in love with Zack that she really didn't "love" Cloud.

Yeah unfortunately this is where people seem to disagree =/

 

[Madame Mayor]

Why it has to be she didn't really love Cloud. Or she didn't move on

Because we are told this straight out? I don't know what more to tell you. We are told she still has feeling for Zack and they are affecting how she's acting around Cloud. That means she's not over him, and that also means her feelings that are developing for Cloud are complicated.

And this isn't even putting in that part where the man she's face to face with isn't completely Cloud either.

i would think this would be fairly straightforward, holy hell

Thinking Aerith's feelings for Cloud are straightforward is ignoring quite a bit, including what she says on her date.

 

[Ryushikaze]

YACCBS, ty for being logical and awesome.

I personally think she was far from still being in love with Zack, and for the most part she hurts because their parting was so rough. However, regardless, she was in love with Cloud.

She was not projecting, in denial, or still so in love with Zack that she really didn't "love" Cloud.

i would think this would be fairly straightforward, holy hell

Errr, the projection and 'denial' aspects don't speak to her love or lack thereof towards Cloud. They actually seek to fit together bits of evidence that don't quite square (even when you just take the original game) and finding a cogent explanation for them.

All arguments about Aerith not knowing Cloud are not meant as indications that she does not love him, just against the argument that she knows him 'best' and derivatives thereof. She still loves his spikey headed ass, but she Loves Cloud in spite of a lack of Cloud, as opposed to because she knows him so very well.
Arguably, Tifa on Disc 1/2 does as well, for a different value of how much she knows Cloud to begin with.

 

[Dashell]

Because we are told this straight out?

No we're told she DID love Cloud and she DID have great affection for him and yes AT FIRST she fell for him because of her feeling for Zack but then she grew to have affection for Cloud. This leads me to believe that it wasn't just Zack that made her love Cloud. CLOUD is her beloved. Both Tifa AND AERITH have feelings for Cloud. ... that's what we're told. That's how I came to understand it.

She still loves his spikey headed ass, but she Loves Cloud in spite of a lack of Cloud, as opposed to because she knows him so very well.

Fair enough.

 

[Tifabelle]

Both Tifa AND AERITH have feelings for Cloud. ... that's what we're told. That's how I came to understand it.

But I think Aerith's feelings can't be quantified so easily. As Cloud wasn't totally himself during the small amount of time that she knew him. That doesn't mean she didn't love him, but I question how she could truly love him when she didn't really get a chance to know the real him.

And just because she falls for Cloud, that doesn't mean that she's over Zack. She can have feelings for both.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That's... ... something I wouldn't expect from you and I agree.

....

How is 'The NARRATIVE' not something you'd expect from me WHEN I HARP ON ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME?

I mean really, have we met? Because it's almost like we haven't.

 

[Madame Mayor]

lol No? Quotes aside her date scene she points out that she's not over Zack and that she's been projecting him onto Cloud.

Also sorry, I didn't mean to imply we are told straight out that she didn't love Cloud, but that we are told things are very very complicated and confused on her end.

 

[Dashell]

How is 'The NARRATIVE' not something you'd expect from me WHEN I HARP ON ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME?

You know what I mean. The part I quoted was something I didn't expect. You saying there's mixed signals

lol No? Quotes aside her date scene she points out that she's not over Zack and that she's been projecting him onto Cloud.

OH NOW we take Aerith's word for it XD

 

[Winter]

Seriously, she does give off very mixed signals. It's not about any sort of threat to C/T. It's about Aerith's own narrative.

zee and I are full of sarcasm, don't confuse that with seriousness, please. :|

I just find it fucking weird that despite the fact that Aerith said, point blank, that she loved Cloud, you guys use ass backwards, far-fetched logic and insist that somehow she is actually not in love with him, but Zack.

Even though... she already said she was in love with him. Yeah, Aerith had a complicated love life. There's a chance she did carry on remorse from her previous relationship, and she probably missed Zack. It was probably really hard for her to meet a guy who was so much like him, and yet completely different.

nonetheless, if she says she's in love with Cloud.... she's in love with Cloud. It came straight from a fucking SE publication.

edit: ryu, I'm not sure how much I agree with you, and I hate to say it, but you are making sense. I get it.

 

[Tifabelle]

OH NOW we take Aerith's word for it XD

No because her actions also support this.

 

[Madame Mayor]

lol yes, I trust the original game more than maiden. sorry bout that.

 

[Dashell]

Okay but don't let it happen again


No really guys, I don't wanna argue this anymore. COLW says it.. CLOUD is her beloved, that's enough for me. It might not be enough for everyone else... but in Dismantled Aerith says she loves Cloud... IF SE had such a problem with this or didn't want this to be true, why on EARTH would they let Benny go ahead and put the same thing in Maiden, and then SUPPORT the idea with CoLW?

I mean really they need to stop hiring this guy if he really goes against their ideas.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You know what I mean. The part I quoted was something I didn't expect. You saying there's mixed signals

Aerith gives off signals of both liking Zack and liking Cloud. The compilation is reinforcing both romances.

OH NOW we take Aerith's word for it XD

No. Or rather, we never take just a character's word. We temper it with context, tone, and narrative.
For example, we note in her Dismantled quote that she brings up their similarities, tautologically assures herself that Cloud is Cloud, and states 'Definitely now I like Cloud more than Zack'

Shakespeare had it pegged with 'Methinks the Lady Doth protest too much.

But then again, this quote was before she admitted to the 'emotional tainting' and resolved to deal with it.

 

[Dashell]

Aerith gives off signals of both liking Zack and liking Cloud. The compilation is reinforcing both romances.

Good I'm happy... where did Winter go?

 

[Winter]

i'm not really all here, i'm running on two hours of sleep and half the posts i've made in here today haven't made sense

but i keep hanging out in this thread because it distracts me from my irl stress. also, nothing better to do