The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Dashell]

I'm talking about a woman who has a history of chasing after the shadow of her ex.

A history? I wasn't aware she had done it before.

After all, if SE publishes it, they are giving it their seal of approval. That being said, if it's not written by those directly involved in the making of the FFVII titles, it's in more danger of being written out of continuity, either because those directly involved either come up with different plans or are unaware of/forgot what Benny wrote.

I am kind of curious about this myself... Did they just forget about what Benny wrote or did they just not like it? I have a hard time believing that they didn't like it because they commissioned the guy to write Maiden but it's clear that Maiden does contradict some things. Then again so does tons of other stuff so maybe it's not so black and white as it seems.

 

[Shademp]

Has anyone made a list of retcons and contradictions within the Compilation and other FFVII material? I honestly can't think of that many major contradictions, but I keep reading about people complaining about these 'contradictions'.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

here is my question: if Aerith is in love with Zack and she admits to this (if this is how you see her date with Cloud), then why is it that she later states Cloud is the one she loves? He could have simply been mentioned as someone who was important to her who she cared about greatly that wasn't romantic attachment.

Yes, I realize, this does not mean Cloud lurved her/wanted to bone her/does not like Tifa at all, but it does have implications for Aerith as far as her mind is concerned: she likes Cloud more than Zack, at least enough to mention him as her beloved. Why?

 

[Dashell]

Has anyone made a list of retcons and contradictions within the Compilation and other FFVII material? I honestly can't think of that many major contradictions, but I keep reading about people complaining about these 'contradictions'.

Didn't Tres do this?

here is my question: if Aerith is in love with Zack and she admits to this (if this is how you see her date with Cloud), then why is it that she later states Cloud is the one she loves? He could have simply been mentioned as someone who was important to her who she cared about greatly that wasn't romantic attachment.

You might want to point out that you realize Aerith CAN love more than one person, that gets confused a lot when you make that argument and then, in the end, you realize you were basically agreeing with people half the time.

 

[Ryushikaze]

here is my question: if Aerith is in love with Zack and she admits to this (if this is how you see her date with Cloud), then why is it that she later states Cloud is the one she loves? He could have simply been mentioned as someone who was important to her who she cared about greatly that wasn't romantic attachment.

Because Loving Zack does not equal not loving Cloud.

Yes, I realize, this does not mean Cloud lurved her/wanted to bone her/does not like Tifa at all, but it does have implications for Aerith as far as her mind is concerned: she likes Cloud more than Zack, at least enough to mention him as her beloved. Why?

Because Zack wasn't into dressing up like a woman. I don't know.
Also, technically, we can't authoritatively say 'more' because Aerith didn't say 'more' in COLW. She was reminded of Cloud and thought of him as her beloved, but she didn't compare him to Zack or anyone else.

Now, in periods before her 'Oh shit, I've been conflating the two, bad brain, BAD!' and in Maiden (which again, fucks 'Loved Cloud for Cloud' in the metaphorical ass) she mentioned more, but both statements need to be examined in a greater context. The monologue with the date scene, and the maiden comment with the rest of Maiden, which make those statements less authoritative than they otherwise would be.
And before this goes into 'How can you say' territory, my point is, technically, we CAN'T say. She might love Cloud's spikey butt more. She might love Zack's more. It's confusing, and all we can really say is that yes, she loves them both, and yes, it's complicated.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

She might love Cloud's spikey butt more. She might love Zack's more. It's confusing, and all we can really say is that yes, she loves them both, and yes, it's complicated.

this i agree with

Because Loving Zack does not equal not loving Cloud.

I realize this, it just seems odd that if the creators were hoping to definitively point the readers/players in a Zack/Aerith direction, why she didn't think in CoLW that Cloud reminded her of her first love or some such. It's like they thought 'hey, here's a bunch of stuff that shows Aerith really only loved Cloud for Zack' and then they sort of punch you in the balls with the realization that she must have loved Cloud for Cloud.

 

[Winter]

I still really don't understand why so many people INSIST she still loves Zack.

You can hurt over a past relationship and actively miss them without still being in love with them. There's a big, big difference. While we have plenty of evidence that she still hurt over Zack, and that she still thought about him, we have absolutely zero evidence that she still loved him.

And because of that, I really don't think she did love him.

also, 5 years is a really long time.

 

[Tifabelle]

also, 5 years is a really long time.

5 years is a really long time...to write 89 letters to a guy who hasn't responded even once.

 

[Splintered]

also, 5 years is a really long time.

Then again.

So is three.

 

[Winter]

5 years is 1,825 days.

89 letters really isn't that many considering how long that period of time was. It proves she still thought about him, sure. Still loved him? Probably not.

 

[Zee]

I wrote my ex a shit ton of letters I never sent. It was a coping mechanism. Everyone has their own way of dealing with loss. Plus we have to consider, in these five years she's basically in the dark about what happened to Zack -- he was just gone and never came back. If that happened to someone you cared about, wouldn't you spam their inbox too?

Her last letter actually did sound like a closure letter to me, which is why I don't really think her getting over Zack started with the Gold Saucer scene. She says in the letter that it's the last thing she's writing to him, and confesses what she never got to tell him about wanting to be with him more. So naturally, the shock of Zack suddenly dying after all that time and then Cloud falling into her life was bound to throw her for a loop. No one's arguing that the girl was confused at first. But her being in ~unconditionally and irrevocably in love~ with Zack still? Doesn't really fly after she gets to know Cloud.

 

[looneymoon]

Well, to be fair it's easy to assume that Aeris was still fully in love with Zack at least up until a few months prior to the game.

As for the whole moving on business...

Wasn't the whole point of her final letter saying that she's going to move on? At least, that's what the whole "this will be my final letter" line indicates...

I agree that she's pretty much projecting onto Cloud until at least the date scene. The fact that she pretty much speaks of Zack in a sort of past tense makes that pretty evident.

Also moving on =/= stop loving. You can move on from a relationship without ceasing to love them. Similarly, you can move on from a death even if that death still upsets you when it comes up. Moving on entails these feelings do not impede on the creation of new ones. That your life does not remain stagnant. The fact that Aeris was willing to fall for Cloud, non-Zack aspects and all, shows that her feelings for Zack are no longer getting in the way of her wanting to pursue a relationship with Cloud. Just because that relationship doesn't come to fruition doesn't mean Aeris never "moved on."

To say she was still hung up over Zack after the date scene is ignoring her entire character arc (Splintered explained it best - it was all part of her coming of age, so to speak). Even if you think her feelings in life were suspect (which admittedly, they ARE) the fact that she retains them in death solidifies the fact that her love for Zack does not illegitimise her love for Cloud.

edit; shit, I was late.

 

[Celes Chere]

why so many people INSIST she still loves Zack.

Because we played Crisis Core?

Spoiler: also

 

[Zee]

edit; shit, I was late.

you're still mai waifu

Because we played Crisis Core?

And ignored everything else?

 

[Celes Chere]

And ignored everything else?

HURR that's exactly what you see me doing in this thread. :V I haven't ignored anything. In fact, I have explained myself many times! XD

 

[Zee]

and no one else has?











ok

 

[looneymoon]

you're still mai waifu

...in my country, you would be called Zed

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

gaiz this is serious

 

[crack]

why aren't you linking me to these cats, woman?

and one relevant to this topic:

 

[Zee]

oh my god

if the rap had been about yu gi oh, i would be 1000% convinced they were from fordham university

 

[Splintered]

Well, to be fair it's easy to assume that Aeris was still fully in love with Zack at least up until a few months prior to the game.

As for the whole moving on business...

Wasn't the whole point of her final letter saying that she's going to move on? At least, that's what the whole "this will be my final letter" line indicates...

I agree that she's pretty much projecting onto Cloud until at least the date scene. The fact that she pretty much speaks of Zack in a sort of past tense makes that pretty evident.

Also moving on =/= stop loving. You can move on from a relationship without ceasing to love them. Similarly, you can move on from a death even if that death still upsets you when it comes up. Moving on entails these feelings do not impede on the creation of new ones. That your life does not remain stagnant. The fact that Aeris was willing to fall for Cloud, non-Zack aspects and all, shows that her feelings for Zack are no longer getting in the way of her wanting to pursue a relationship with Cloud. Just because that relationship doesn't come to fruition doesn't mean Aeris never "moved on."

To say she was still hung up over Zack after the date scene is ignoring her entire character arc (Splintered explained it best - it was all part of her coming of age, so to speak). Even if you think her feelings in life were suspect (which admittedly, they ARE) the fact that she retains them in death solidifies the fact that her love for Zack does not illegitimise her love for Cloud.

edit; shit, I was late.

Why are you in my head, saying everything that I think in a more eloquent way than I ever could?

 

[Celes Chere]

and no one else has?











ok

I did nawt say this D:

 

[Zee]

alrighty

 

[looneymoon]

Aeris' fursona? wat is this I don't even.

Insert inevitable Red/Aeris joke here.

 

[Vendel]

Has anyone made a list of retcons and contradictions within the Compilation and other FFVII material? I honestly can't think of that many major contradictions, but I keep reading about people complaining about these 'contradictions'.

Well anything that even hints that Cloud loves Tifa is a massive retcon and it contradicts the "intended" couple of the game.