The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Dashell]

I wasn't aware this conversation had anything to do with CxT or ZxA or CxA. I'm looking at the story, and I have questions. Of course it doesn't change the bottom line, but can't I still question something that happened in the middle?

I don't think null meant you specifically. You can ask questions... you want to know when Aerith knew Cloud enough to love him right?

I know that quote. It's the one that talks about them falling for each other right away, into a sudden crush. It's about the beginning of their relationship.

Ahh okay... never mind then.

 

[Tifabelle]

I don't think null meant you specifically. You can ask questions... you want to know when Aerith knew Cloud enough to love him right?

Yes. With Tifa there is an entire Lifestream sequence (and subsequent highwind scene) that explains everything. When I look at the situation with Aerith, I'm missing the connecting piece.

 

[Dashell]

Well I'm by no means saying she knew Cloud as well as Tifa, but she did start to get to know him. Would you consider it impossible that she got to know him in the lifestream?

I mean I believe Maiden and that explains everything to me XD

 

[Splintered]

Yeah, there was a quote that said that the love was "platonic" (probably a rough translation, but idc). I cba to dig it up this late though, but I know it was in the CC Ultimania.

There was absolutely no way Zack/Aerith was platonic. You'd have to play CC blind, deaf, and quite possibly stupid to not see those two kids were crazy about each other. The only feasible arguement I can see is if she got over him or not by the time FFVII started.

 

[Zee]

Platonic as in they didn't have sex.

Fucking lies, between Zack and Aeris' libido I refuse to believe they didn't hop in each others pants at least once.

Dear SE,

Teenagers: You're doing it wrong.

How old I was when I met and fell in love with my current boyfriend. *shrugs*

And that's nice: you're an exception to the rule. But the way you feel for someone when you're 14 and when you're older is still different -- you're older, more experienced, you can understand your own feelings better, etc.

Tifa and Cloud didn't even get a chance for their feelings to grow and develop. He had one actual face to face conversation with her, and then he left shortly after for SOLDIER.

Nooo, Garnet and Zidane!!

They are the only exception for being flawless/stunning/beautiful/etc
Climb out of a goddamn tree after three years
Queen tosses off her crown
FEELS GREAT MAN

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It just seems like people are going out of their way to say CxT, ZxA, the end.

Amen.

Fucking lies, between Zack and Aeris' libido I refuse to believe they didn't hop in each others pants at least once.

They didn't, Zack tried to go for broke and get her to agree with a threesome with Cissnei. And hey not a bad idea, I'm willing to be a lot of guys would go for that, but he held out for it too long and it didn't pan out.

 

[Zee]

Yes. With Tifa there is an entire Lifestream sequence (and subsequent highwind scene) that explains everything. When I look at the situation with Aerith, I'm missing the connecting piece.

Since when does love work like this? When you realize you love someone, it sort of comes out of nowhere. You don't have a list of reasons and say, "Well logically, because of x, y, and z, I should love this person," nor can you pinpoint an exact, specific moment where they suddenly did something so magical you just fall all over yourself. There is no real clear, defining moment between the "like" and "love" stages; it either happens or it doesn't.

 

[Madame Mayor]

And that's nice: you're an exception to the rule.

I think I'm an exception to the modern rule, sure. But when I think about our parents and when a lot of them started dating, it just doesn't seem so crazy for me to think that two characters that age in fiction could have started falling in love.

 

[null]

I wasn't aware this conversation had anything to do with CxT or ZxA or CxA. I'm looking at the story, and I have questions. Of course it doesn't change the bottom line, but can't I still question something that happened in the middle?

Of course you can. Please don't feel unwelcome in doing so.

At the same time, can't I challenge what people have to say? Let me be plain... I think Cloud and Tifa are together. I think Zack and Aerith had a relationship that was never resolved. I think Aerith fell in love with Cloud toward the end. I think whether Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith or not doesn't affect the story, and doesn't hurt anyone for wanting to believe, but there is no hard evidence suggesting he did.

That is, Cloud loves Tifa, Tifa loves Cloud, Zack loved Aerith, Aerith loved Zack, Aerith loved Cloud.

And if you want to believe Cloud loved Aerith... well, whatever helps you sleep at night, there's nothing specifically saying he didn't, but please don't make bullshit essays about symbolism and whatnot to "prove" he loved Aerith and only Aerith.

Also, just to clear things up, _ x _ is my shorthand for story relationships and has nothing to do with shipping. Therefore, this thread has everything to do with CxT and ZxA and CxA and Mass Effect and lesbians and puppies.

Also, I'm unnecessarily rough with certain posters *cough* because they'll ignore my ass otherwise.

 

[Tifabelle]

Since when does love work like this? When you realize you love someone, it sort of comes out of nowhere. You don't have a list of reasons and say, "Well logically, because of x, y, and z, I should love this person," nor can you pinpoint an exact, specific moment where they suddenly did something so magical you just fall all over yourself. There is no real clear, defining moment between the "like" and "love" stages; it either happens or it doesn't.

Unless you're 14?

 

[Zee]

I only know a few parents who wed young (and a few out of that group, because of an unplanned pregnancy). Most of 'em met/wed in their mid 20s, and more than half out of that group is divorced.

So maybe I'm just cynical.

Unless you're 14?

If you're 14, you get on facebook and change your status to "married", because you're relationship is that serious and long standing.

'Course if this was back on myspace, you'd even change your name to ~ZACK'S 1NONLY ANGEL~ and make sure a big obnoxious picture is in your about me section.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Not necessarily wed young, just met young and started dating when they were young teens.

 

[Zee]

When I say young I'm talking like 17-20, if that helps. idk I'm tired.

And if you want to believe Cloud loved Aerith... well, whatever helps you sleep at night, there's nothing specifically saying he didn't, but please don't make bullshit essays about symbolism and whatnot to "prove" he loved Aerith and only Aerith.

Sadly I don't have any carp essays for you.

I mean, I think you can make a case for Cloud loving Aeris as long as you don't start stomping over his relationship with Tifa and his personal story about freeing himself from his guilt and whatnot.

 

[Tifabelle]

Of course you can. Please don't feel unwelcome in doing so.

Isn't it obvious that I don't feel unwelcome

At the same time, can't I challenge what people have to say? Let me be plain... I think Cloud and Tifa are together. I think Zack and Aerith had a relationship that was never resolved. I think Aerith fell in love with Cloud toward the end. I think whether Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith or not doesn't affect the story, and doesn't hurt anyone for wanting to believe, but there is no hard evidence suggesting he did.

That is, Cloud loves Tifa, Tifa loves Cloud, Zack loved Aerith, Aerith loved Zack, Aerith loved Cloud.

You can challenge; that's what I'm doing. And I agree with what you've said above. I just can't grasp the details of the "Aerith loved Cloud" part. It's very complex and I'm willing to leave it at that.

Also, just to clear things up, _ x _ is my shorthand for story relationships and has nothing to do with shipping. Therefore, this thread has everything to do with CxT and ZxA and CxA and Mass Effect and lesbians and puppies.

Ok. I just didn't want people to think that my motivations for questions Aerith's feelings had anything to do with "shipping business". But bring on more Mass Effect and lesbians and puppies

@Zee - As for me, I'm not saying Cloud and Tifa were in love at 14. But I don't think it's impossible. But you say love can happen any time, anywhere, then put age rules on it. I was only teasing anyway. Perhaps I should have

 

[Madame Mayor]

When I say young I'm talking like 17-20, if that helps. idk I'm tired.

tbh I almost feel like this discussion could have it's own thread. Figuring out how relationships around you, especially growing up, effect how you view fictional relationships. Putting a focus on age when two people can start having something serious.

 

[Dashell]

I mean, I think you can make a case for Cloud loving Aeris as long as you don't start stomping over his relationship with Tifa and his personal story about freeing himself from his guilt and whatnot.

Hey if you can, awesome... unfortunately it seems like a lot of people can't (meaning make a case without stomping on CxT)

 

[Zee]

@Zee - As for me, I'm not saying Cloud and Tifa were in love at 14. But I don't think it's impossible. But you say love can happen any time, anywhere, then put age rules on it. I was only teasing anyway. Perhaps I should have

You do realize none of that myspace/fb stuff was serious, right? Maybe I should have

And...yeah, I'm putting age rules on it, because I don't think you can really understand what you're feeling is love if you're at an emotional stage of immaturity. Course there are exceptions, not everyone is the same etc etc but for the most part, it's true.

I could probably word this better if I gave it some thought and came back to it later.

tbh I almost feel like this discussion could have it's own thread. Figuring out how relationships around you, especially growing up, effect how you view fictional relationships. Putting a focus on age when two people can start having something serious.

You could make one, I think it'd be interesting to hear everyone's opinions on it.

 

[null]

Isn't it obvious that I don't feel unwelcome

STOP PLAYING WITH MY EMOTIONS

tbh I almost feel like this discussion could have it's own thread.

Honestly you're right, and in fact there should be two separate threads for the two "triangle" debates period. But most of the site bitches about having any LT discussion in the first place, so I guess we're lucky to have one at all.

 

[Splintered]

Does anybody find arguing over "realistic" rules kind of arbitrary?

It's a trope, son. Childhood sweethearts and falling in love as kids. Love at first sight. Having supernatural powers that let you get a glimpse into someone's soul. Finding a 22 year old willing to raise two kids not of her own, take care of a house, manage a business, save the world, and clean up after your deadbeat ass, and do it with a smile.

Yeah, no shit they don't exist irl. They do in fiction. It doesn't have to make sense in the context of our world, it has to make sense in the context of their world.

 

[Tifabelle]

And...yeah, I'm putting age rules on it, because I don't think you can really understand what you're feeling is love if you're at an emotional stage of immaturity. Course there are exceptions, not everyone is the same etc etc but for the most part, it's true.

I agree with that, but fiction always tends to bend maturity rules. Especially Final Fantasy.

BTW, I knew you were kidding about the other stuff, lol.

 

[Madame Mayor]

You could make one, I think it'd be interesting to hear everyone's opinions on it.

Well, I don't think it'll be tonight since I was sleepy two hours ago when I got home from work, but if anybody else wants to take that discussion away from specifically CxT and on a bigger scale of fiction then please do.

 

[Zee]

BTW, I knew you were kidding about the other stuff, lol.

juuust makin' sure

I agree with that, but fiction always tends to bend maturity rules. Especially Final Fantasy.

and @ Splintered


Sure realistic standards don't have to exactly fit in video game land, but I think everyone projects their own irl experiences onto the characters and therefore finds one aspect plausible (Tifa loving Cloud at 14) and another not so much (Aeris loving Cloud after two weeks). Or vice versa.

 

[null]

Does anybody find arguing over "realistic" rules kind of arbitrary?

It's a trope, son. Childhood sweethearts and falling in love as kids. Love at first sight. Having supernatural powers that let you get a glimpse into someone's soul. Finding a 22 year old willing to raise two kids not of her own, take care of a house, manage a business, save the world, and clean up after your deadbeat ass, and do it with a smile.

Yeah, no shit they don't exist irl. They do in fiction. It doesn't have to make sense in the context of our world, it has to make sense in the context of their world.

The only downside to that is, I have to stop bitching about what a shitty husband and father figure Cloud is according to real life standards. (Even after they retconned his loser ass to be semi-altruistic)

 

[Dashell]

Honestly you're right, and in fact there should be two separate threads for the two "triangle" debates period. But most of the site bitches about having any LT discussion in the first place, so I guess we're lucky to have one at all.

oh hai

 

[Winter]

nonetheless, didn't C/T have like one conversation as kids? that's not even love if you're fucking shakespeare