The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[minimosey]

That's pretty much how I see it, too. They knew each other, but it wasn't in a meaningful way until they were adults. They didn't really have a mutual relationship besides "kids in the same neighborhood" while they lived in Nibelheim.

 

[Fighter]

I doubt they had anything romantic going on as kids, except for Cloud's crush that Tifa may reciprocate

Of course. That's the basis for Cloud's whole story. And I think Tifa didn't reciprocate anything up to the point when he called her to the tower. I just contend that she knew him to a reasonable degree.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

what she says can definitely be construed as flirty. It's obvious to her why he would show up and when he says for forgiveness, considering she's the only one there, that should be obvious. She is acting in a matter that is quite flirty, whether you like it or not.

Now, I don't know if I'd call her actions in AC flirting, but they are certainly teasing.

I'm with Zee. What she said was definitely teasing (her FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile even says so), but there's nothing flirty about it. Teasing and flirting are not necessarily synonomous.

The thing is, I ... just take Aerith's word for it. Maybe I'm stupid for doing so, maybe I look like an idiot, and I'm not looking at the context enough, but I believe I am.

You've got Aerith.
Aerith was with Zack
They loved each other and had a great relationship
Zack left and Aerith was sad
Aerith met Cloud and was INITIALLY attracted cause he reminded her of Zack
Aerith realized what she was doing then decided she wanted to get to know Cloud for Cloud
She died
She still loved Cloud, what she knew of him.
**Aerith gets to know the real Cloud in the lifestream and she still loves him
Cloud is her beloved

**only if you think Maiden is canon obviously

It just fits nicely. I don't have to backtrack or sit here and analyze sentences or anything like that. All of the quotes make sense to me and don't really contradict. It makes sense and that's why I defend this so much. I really believe I'm right and that's... why. If that makes any sense at all...

It actually makes a lot of sense. Whether you include Maiden or not, I don't see a reason to not take Aerith at her word in OtWtaS: CotL White.

It's not as though she acts there like she thinks Cloud is Zack. She knows he isn't.

The lines you posted are exactly what I'm saying. She realized Cloud wasn't Cloud, and still has great affection for him.

Obviously Cloud wasn't entirely Zack, so some of his own personality did show through. That's not what I meant, so let me just fix that right there.

Aerith admits that she wants to get to know the real Cloud. That's sweet, and it sounds like she's interested in him and wants to love him for him and she did harbor some feelings for him. I have never denied that. But if she realizes Cloud isn't Cloud, how can she still love him? How do you still love a man when you don't know who he is.

So then she died. She never got to know the real Cloud. So when did she fall in love with the real Cloud? After the Lifestream sequence?

Neither the act nor concept of falling in love with someone is dependent on knowing a whole lot about them. It can happen in less than a day, in a few hours or even a few minutes. Even in a single moment.

I'm not waxing hopelessly romantic here -- I'm just stating what should be obvious to everyone here as members of the human race: falling in love doesn't have to be a rational thing you can explain in a PowerPoint presentation.

And you can fall in love with someone long before you know all about the "true" them. You can spend years learning everything about who someone is, but you don't need to know everything to fall in love with them. You just need to have a starting point.



Also, to avoid more Ryu vs. everybody shenanigans, I think this thread should now be about hitoxTresxMako.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Also, to avoid more Ryu vs. everybody shenanigans, I think this thread should now be about hitoxTresxMako.

TRES STOP INSERTING YOURSELF INTO EVERYTHING

NOT EVERYONE WANTS A MAN TRAIN HERE

 

[Zee]

So why are they called s childhood friends?

The FFXIII Ultimania book thingy says Fang/Vanille have a "sisterly relationship". I wouldn't exactly take the relationship summaries at face value.

Spoiler

don't take my lesbians away from me

 

[Dashell]

It actually makes a lot of sense. Whether you include Maiden or not, I don't see a reason to not take Aerith at her word in OtWtaS: CotL White.

It's not as though she acts there like she thinks Cloud is Zack. She knows he isn't.

You don't make me feel good by telling me good things

But good, I'm glad SOMEONE can understand it

 

[Raidou]

The FFXIII Ultimania book thingy says Fang/Vanille have a "sisterly relationship". I wouldn't exactly take the relationship summaries at face value.

Spoiler

don't take my lesbians away from me

I'll touch your breasts and you will feel sisterly love

 

[Ryushikaze]

The man watched his wife die and his only daughter fall into a coma.

So, um, yes.

And then less than two years later he's letting his daughter train with a strange old man from out of town and lead people from out of town through the mountains unsupervised?
We have no indication that she's under a lockdown by the time of the water tower scene, and if she was under such, Daddy Lockhart became really really relaxed in the interim.

But yet again I'd have to point out there's no evidence to back up the claim they'd ever spoken aside from that night at the well -- not in CoT, not in the flashbacks, not even in any of Cloud's precious memories about Tifa. She even says outright they were never that close, so I doubt they had time to become besties before he left. You can't just say, "Well, I feel like it should have happened," because that's not an argument.

Tifa admits they weren't that close, but thought that they had been close. The, along with actually being able to parse his strange behavior, suggests at least a superficial relationship rather than no childhood at all.

Also Ryu this is not like me and Winter not believing Z/A didn't have sex. They were two flirty horny teenagers in a relationship, that results in a fairly obvious conclusion. Of course, word of god is saying we're wrong so when it comes right down to it, I can't really argue against it despite how stupid I find it. I'll just have to accept the fact they were wearing purity rings when they met.

How is this not like that? No, seriously, you're going 'They must/ must not have' on both situations based on almost no information at all. You're saying one group of horny teens must have had sex based on practically nothing, and that another group of horny teens couldn't even sneak out for a few superficial dates over the course of a few months based on just the same amount of information.

Have I mentioned I hate SE?

Not ever, no.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

How is this not like that? No, seriously, you're going 'They must/ must not have' on both situations based on almost no information at all. You're saying one group of horny teens must have had sex based on practically nothing, and that another group of horny teens couldn't even sneak out for a few superficial dates over the course of a few months based on just the same amount of information.

i assume we would have gotten some info in the lifestream scene where tifa recalled the times they hung out, but instead i believe we get tifa recalling that her dad was mad at cloud when she ran up to the mountain, the promise scene, the nibelheim incident again, and cloud remembers what happened. one would assume that if the creators wanted people to make any sort of assumption that cloud and tifa bonded beyond the promise scene, that they would have some sort of slight verbal cue like 'like that time before you left and we ran off to the mountains together' or something.

game don't have it. as such, all assumption that cloud and tifa had to have bonded is just that, assumption. whereas zack and aerith have the creators stating that their bond was platonic and that they weren't in love because they were too young.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah I never got the whole "Prove it DIDN'T happen!" deal... you have to prove it did happen, and really you can't. You can assume, but that's all you can do.

game don't have it. as such, all assumption that cloud and tifa had to have bonded is just that, assumption. whereas zack and aerith have the creators stating that their bond was platonic and that they weren't in love because they were too young.

I went through this with Gimpy the other day, is there a quote that says they were too young or is it that "sudden crush" one again?

 

[Ryushikaze]

The FFXIII Ultimania book thingy says Fang/Vanille have a "sisterly relationship". I wouldn't exactly take the relationship summaries at face value.

Spoiler

don't take my lesbians away from me

Sisters of Sappho is still a sisterly relationship.

I will agree that we can't take them as the be all end all, but they do serve as a decent starting point from which to understand later relationships.
It's just Fang and Vanille are sisters in the same way Sailors Saturn and Neptune are 'cousins.'

 

[Raidou]

Cloud says he will leave the village in spring
When I played I thought it would be months later.
But I can not prove it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

i assume we would have gotten some info in the lifestream scene where tifa recalled the times they hung out, but instead i believe we get tifa recalling that her dad was mad at cloud when she ran up to the mountain, the promise scene, the nibelheim incident again, and cloud remembers what happened. one would assume that if the creators wanted people to make any sort of assumption that cloud and tifa bonded beyond the promise scene, that they would have some sort of slight verbal cue like 'like that time before you left and we ran off to the mountains together' or something.

game don't have it. as such, all assumption that cloud and tifa had to have bonded is just that, assumption. whereas zack and aerith have the creators stating that their bond was platonic and that they weren't in love because they were too young.

Except Zee is saying Zack and Aerith (platonic quote notwithstanding) not having sex makes no sense because they are horny teenagers, but we can't assume Cloud and Tifa did anything, despite them also being horny teenagers attracted to each other who snuck out at least once to be together. My point is the logic behind 'It doesn't make sense for Z and A not to have sex' and 'C and T probably would have tried spending more time together' is the same logic.
And I agree with Zee, that "Platonic" aside, I really figured Z and A would have had sex. Even with the platonic I can see them making out, doing everything that isn't sex.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Sisters of Sappho is still a sisterly relationship.

I will agree that we can't take them as the be all end all, but they do serve as a decent starting point from which to understand later relationships.
It's just Fang and Vanille are sisters in the same way Sailors Saturn and Neptune are 'cousins.'

oh my god
IT'S SAILOR URANUS AND NEPTUNE

SATURN IS 10 ARE YOU A PEDO OH GOD

 

[Strangelove]

TRES STOP INSERTING YOURSELF INTO EVERYTHING

NOT EVERYONE WANTS A MAN TRAIN HERE

Can't you people think about me others for a change?

lolz 'inserting'

 

[Fighter]

Yeah I never got the whole "Prove it DIDN'T happen!" deal... you have to prove it did happen, and really you can't. You can assume, but that's all you can do.

When you fill in the blanks you can either assume something rational or not. For example I don't think it's logical that Tifa waited for many years for a guy she knew only from one conversation.

 

[Dashell]

I thought we were talking about sex... what happened?

 

[Ryushikaze]

oh my god
IT'S SAILOR URANUS AND NEPTUNE

SATURN IS 10 ARE YOU A PEDO OH GOD

No, but Neptune is.
Anyways, Uranus and Neptune being 'cousins' made them no less lesbians. Just kinkier.

 

[null]

When you fill in the blanks you can either assume something rational or not. For example I don't think it's logical that Tifa waited for many years for a guy she knew only from one conversation.

Is love rational?

 

[Fighter]

Is love rational?

No.

 

[Dashell]

I mean really, I don't have a problem with Tifa waiting for years for someone she didn't know that well. Love at first sight maybe? Tifa was asked out to the watertower many times, but Cloud was the one she really paid attention to, so it makes sense that she'd wait for him. Even if she didn't know him that well. He caught her eye, they made a promise, of course she'd wait for him.

 

[Dana Scully]

Except Zee is saying Zack and Aerith (platonic quote notwithstanding) not having sex makes no sense because they are horny teenagers, but we can't assume Cloud and Tifa did anything, despite them also being horny teenagers attracted to each other who snuck out at least once to be together. My point is the logic behind 'It doesn't make sense for Z and A not to have sex' and 'C and T probably would have tried spending more time together' is the same logic.

Except that Zack and Aerith are an established, canon couple from pretty much the moment they meet, while 16/15 year old Cloud/Tifa are not, no matter what way you try to spin it. There is zero evidence in the OG, or anywhere else, that Cloud and Tifa even made it to first base before Cloud left Nibelheim.

 

[Tifabelle]

There is zero evidence in the OG, or anywhere else, that Cloud and Tifa even made it to first base before Cloud left Nibelheim.

There is zero evidence that Z & A made it to first base before he died.

 

[Dashell]

What is first base exactly again? I forgot.

 

[Dana Scully]

There is zero evidence that Z & A made it to first base before he died.

True, but they are an obviously established couple.

Which is a heluva lot more than you can say for teen!Cloud and Tifa.