The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Strangelove]

Not sure what the problem is with a guy loving two beautiful woman.

... at the same time

Srsly tho, does it cheapen one relationship if he likes the other girl more than just a friend?

And hey. Bitches. I happen to be playing FFIV at the moment, and would appreciate not hearing details about it

How do you know they haven't? Have you been peeking?

Are you saying they haven't? Because I've not seen it. Maybe tomorrow

Xenosaga 3 reminded me of Cleris, only not in the good way.

 

[Lonewolf]

Denzel, that's the kid you're looking for.

And Loneypony, please, do read the subject matter before coming in here. And don't play dumb (at least, I do hope it was simply playing) and act like I was referring to Marlene when I talk of the kid Cloud and Tifa were given to be replacement parents for. Because I refer to Denzel, the kid who they both believe was brought to their home, whose biological parents and Cloud and Tifa S-E has drawn obvious parallels between. Who Cloud left to seek a cure for. His child. Tifa's child. Their child.

Tifa is the one who said Aerith brought Denzil to Cloud and Tifa - not Cloud. If CotL is third person limited narration, I'd say case of Tifa definately is as well. We never get Cloud's perspective on the matter, do we?

Lol. Still no proof of Cleris in anything I see. (Even in AU Games, if you ask me.)

Strange that Cloud and Aerith would have their own little segment at the end of KH 1, then. He sought her out in FFTactics. You'd think they'd have Tifa in some of these games instead.

However, I think we should look to the actual game for Cloud's motivation and what he thinks. We'd all agree that the most pivital scenes are shown with FMV's - the introduction, the escape from the Shinra building, Sephiroth at the reactor, Aerith's death, Aerith's burial - all the scenes with Tifa involve her by herself or Cloud talking about another woman.

After checking that Cloud was asleep, she spoke to him.
[...]
Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.​

Doesn't this imply sleeping in the same bed, for most people? I think it does

No, because throughout the game Cloud slept along side several companions. Given that he and Tifa are comerades in battle, I think it can be assumed that he'd be comfortable with her presence.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

They just put words in characters mouths for no reason, it's crazy!

Oh, maybe I missed something...Show me where Cloud says Aerith is as important to him as Tifa? I mean if there's a direct or implied quote, I'd love to see it.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Tifa is the one who said Aerith brought Denzil to Cloud and Tifa - not Cloud. If CotL is third person limited narration, I'd say case of Tifa definately is as well. We never get Cloud's perspective on the matter, do we?

Uhhh, yeah. He says he thought that too.

However, I think we should look to the actual game for Cloud's motivation and what he thinks. We'd all agree that the most pivital scenes are shown with FMV's - the introduction, the escape from the Shinra building, Sephiroth at the reactor, Aerith's death, Aerith's burial - all the scenes with Tifa involve her by herself or Cloud talking about another woman.

In what FMV is Cloud talking about another woman?

No, because throughout the game Cloud slept along side several companions. Given that he and Tifa are comerades in battle, I think it can be assumed that he'd be comfortable with her presence.

Uh, yeah. Totally debunks Cloti right there. Good job.

 

[null.]

Proving a negative isn't impossible.

As for owing you a million dollars. Well, I've never met you, don't know you from Adam nor you me, and by that very BASIC logic, I've proven that I don't owe you a million dollars because I don't know who YOU are and vice versa. Wasn't that hard.

Stand by your assertion that proving a negative isn't impossible. Prove we haven't met.

At first I wondered if you were just trying too hard to be OWD. Now I think you're trying reeeeaally hard to be a caricature of a Cloti.

 

[Zee]

Oh, maybe I missed something...Show me where Cloud says Aerith is as important to him as Tifa? I mean if there's a direct or implied quote, I'd love to see it.

So when directly being asked what is the most important to him, seeing both their faces, and basically saying trying to choose one over the other in his heart is stupid just doesn't count? lulz~

Not sure what the problem is with a guy loving two beautiful woman.

... at the same time

Srsly tho, does it cheapen one relationship if he likes the other girl more than just a friend?

It seems some people would rather jam a rusty hot poker through their eye than admit that.

Anyways, Zee, just because they're a troubled relationship, it doesn't mean they aren't in a relationship pre-AC. Real couples have their ups and downs, and their crises.

Not trying to say it should always be sunshine 100% of the time, but I think that in actually establishing a relationship they are both sorta slow. CoT implies this is the beginning of a relationship, not the middle of one -- hence the awkward flirting, Cloud saying it would be different together, and Tifa's initial fears all indicate they are treading on new ground.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Stand by your assertion that proving a negative isn't impossible. Prove we haven't met.

At first I wondered if you were just trying too hard to be OWD. Now I think you're trying reeeeaally hard to be a caricature of a Cloti.

Aside from this being completely irrelevant to the LTD, sure.

I'm agoraphobic and never go outside and never meet anyone.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

They just put words in characters mouths for no reason, it's crazy!

So I asked for a quote based on your statement above, and you provide flashes of images in his head as your counter. lulz~

You're cute when you play dumb.

Please be playing...

 

[Zee]

So I asked for a quote based on your statement above, and you provide flashes of images in his head as your counter. lulz~

You're cute when you play dumb.

Please be playing...

...So the thoughts Cloud has in his head don't count? AHAHHAHA. Oh lawd, child.

Alright, I'm done playing. If you want someone to explain rather simple concepts to you as if you were five years old, go look for someone else.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Not sure what the problem is with a guy loving two beautiful woman.

... at the same time

Srsly tho, does it cheapen one relationship if he likes the other girl more than just a friend?

No, though it does sort of miss the point of some of the narrative.

And hey. Bitches. I happen to be playing FFIV at the moment, and would appreciate not hearing details about it

Spoiler

CECIL STARTS AS A DARK KNIGHT BUT BECOMES A PALADIN.
GOLBEZ IS HIS BROTHER.
KAIN USES SPEARS.
THERE ARE CHOCOBOS. A FAT ONE TOO.

Are you saying they haven't? Because I've not seen it. Maybe tomorrow

They might or might not ON SCREEN, though.

Xenosaga 3 reminded me of Cleris, only not in the good way.

What, what isn't healthy about Shion and her undead boyfriend? I mean REALLY...

Tifa is the one who said Aerith brought Denzil to Cloud and Tifa - not Cloud. If CotL is third person limited narration, I'd say case of Tifa definately is as well. We never get Cloud's perspective on the matter, do we?

No one said CoT wasn't 3rd Limited.
And we DO get Cloud's perspective. He smiles and agrees.

Strange that Cloud and Aerith would have their own little segment at the end of KH 1, then.

Well, Momma got reunited with baby, just like Gheppy and Pinno.

He sought her out in FFTactics.

Have you played FFT? Because he doesn't. He runs into Aerith, goes 'you look familiar, welp, let's keep going' she gets in trouble, you fight off the bandits, and he leaves to continue looking for what he's searching for. Interestingly, you later find Buster on top of Bervenia volcano, and Cloud's party dialogue still speaks of his search.

You'd think they'd have Tifa in some of these games instead.

Like, oh KH2, Itadaki St Special and Portable, and the compilation proper?

However, I think we should look to the actual game for Cloud's motivation and what he thinks. We'd all agree that the most pivital scenes are shown with FMV's - the introduction, the escape from the Shinra building, Sephiroth at the reactor, Aerith's death, Aerith's burial - all the scenes with Tifa involve her by herself or Cloud talking about another woman.

Wait, so the lifestream scene simply doesn't count because it doesn't have an FMV in it? That's so stupid, I must blatantly laugh at it.
And the final FMV also has Cloud catching Tifa, checking out her assets, her touching his butt, them remaining together throughout the end of the sequence, and mere hours later, he says he will succeed at his new life because he's doing it together with her this time, in a different way than they've been together before.

No, because throughout the game Cloud slept along side several companions. Given that he and Tifa are comerades in battle, I think it can be assumed that he'd be comfortable with her presence.

So, you are saying that if he found Barret or Zack staring at him in his sleep, he wouldn't care, wouldn't be freaking out? He would just accept it and not ask what they were doing?

Bullhonkery.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Aw, come on. Stuff it. Aerith is as special to Cloud as is Tifa. Why is this being argued?

Seriously. Cloud loves both women, but in different ways. Cloud also loves Zack, Denzel, and Marlene. Nothing isn't important to Cloud, he says so himself.

Crack aside, it can be argued that Zack is also as important to Cloud as Aerith is.

Cloud loves Tifa romantically, duh. Aerith is more like a sister or a guardian, even a mother-figure. Ever played FFVII? Cloti, slight Clerith. Watched AC/C? Read the Ultimania? Cloti, Clerith replaced with Zerith. It's all there.




I also noticed that I'm being ignored. It aggravated me.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

...So the thoughts Cloud has in his head don't count? AHAHHAHA. Oh lawd, child.

Alright, I'm done playing. If you want someone to explain rather simple concepts to you as if you were five years old, go look for someone else.

You seem to be having a really hard time following the linear progression of your own statements. You said they put words in characters mouths...I asked for a quote. Not rocket science.

If you want to change that statement or ignore it, fine. And of course the thoughts in Cloud's head count, but I fail to see how those flashes are indicative of his inability to chose one woman over the other. Denzel, Marlene and Zack were there too. It wasn't about Sephiroth asking "Who do you love more?" It was what Cloud Cherishes, and OMG realization time here, he cherishes his life. ALL of it. Of course he cherishes Aerith. But no, she is not loved in the same way or even degree that he loves Tifa.

And no, I don't need simple concepts explained to me. I just expect you to follow your own arguments.

But fair enough. You're done playing.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I also noticed that I'm being ignored. It aggravated me.

Not ignoring you. I'm all done toying with the silly ones anyway.

You make valid points.

 

[Zee]

Although I disagree about Zerith -- only because they are both dead and I don't care about what dead people do the last 2 weeks before they become goo, I agree with pretty much everything else. I don't think Cleris or Zeris "replace" each other, they are just two different relationships she had in her life.

I also noticed that I'm being ignored.

Nuu. D:

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

[However, I think we should look to the actual game for Cloud's motivation and what he thinks. We'd all agree that the most pivital scenes are shown with FMV's - the introduction, the escape from the Shinra building, Sephiroth at the reactor, Aerith's death, Aerith's burial - all the scenes with Tifa involve her by herself or Cloud talking about another woman.

In FMVs? Or are we talking scenes with Tifa? Because I know of the Lifestream scene and the Highwind scene, but neither are FMVs and the ending, which has Cloud saving Tifa at the last minute, and grabbing her hand to keep her from falling.

 

[Lonewolf]

In what FMV is Cloud talking about another woman?

"I think I can meet her... there."

Would be nice to give a, "Are you alright, my love?" if it were the case.

Wait, so the lifestream scene simply doesn't count because it doesn't have an FMV in it? That's so stupid, I must blatantly laugh at it.
And the final FMV also has Cloud catching Tifa, checking out her assets, her touching his butt, them remaining together throughout the end of the sequence, and mere hours later, he says he will succeed at his new life because he's doing it together with her this time, in a different way than they've been together before.

Ask the creators why they chose to have Aerith die and Cloud bury her in fully rendered animation, whereas Tifa and Cloud falling into the lifestream looks... terrible.

As for your comment about case of Tifa - how can we be sure based on that you have acknowledged that CoT is from Tifa's perspective - that we aren't seeing what Tifa wants us to see? Tifa's the one in love with Cloud - it's not been validated as reciprocal.

Well, Momma got reunited with baby, just like Gheppy and Pinno.

How is Cloud Aerith's baby? Explain.

Have you played FFT? Because he doesn't. He runs into Aerith, goes 'you look familiar, welp, let's keep going' she gets in trouble, you fight off the bandits, and he leaves to continue looking for what he's searching for. Interestingly, you later find Buster on top of Bervenia volcano, and Cloud's party dialogue still speaks of his search.

He comes to her aid when men threaten her sexually - tell me you grasp that simple concept.

So, you are saying that if he found Barret or Zack staring at him in his sleep, he wouldn't care, wouldn't be freaking out? He would just accept it and not ask what they were doing?

He's probably gotten used to Tifa nagging him and asking him questions she should already know the answer to.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Bwuahahahahaha... Sorry. Sorry. That's just rich.

 

[Channy]

Gees, you go for a nap and there's three moar pages. ;_;

, Barret has RAGEHANDS.

I feel compelled to quote that.

Are we back to Disc One where Cloud is CloudZ anyway? I'm sure my CloudZ was annoyed to stay there, because that's pretty much how I felt, and CloudZ pretty much acts how the player feels

If CloudZ feels how the player feels, well I felt all fangirlish about the date scene with Aerith, and the before/after shots when she flirts with him. So I think he liked it too.

Reminds me too that Japanese don't necessarily overly romantic stuff either. Maybe that's my half Japanese - absolutely not speaking and not reading though - part in me that speaks when it comes to those oddities

wat. Have you seen a lot of the anime that the Japanese push out? They are moar than capable of creating a romantic moment or two.

However we were discussing the physical affection between Cloud and Tifa, and on this front, the couple is certainly lacking.

Pretty much sums it up.

I don't understand the 'it wasn't a romance story' argument. That doesn't change their supposed relationship as a couple. It doesn't mean Cloud should be averse to giving Tifa a peck on the cheek or any other gesture of intimacy.

I'm with Dacon, and believe SE were deliberately being coy to avoid upsetting certain quarters of their fanbase.

I respect SE for wanting to spare the Clorith's feelings, but really.. if there was a lot moar hard evidence such as a peck on the cheek, a warm embrace, hand holding, anything.. it'd be alot harder to argue with.

Lacking compared to what? This I'm curious about, because surely we're not putting socially expected norms on fictional characters... I mean, seriously. There's a whole two years we don't see where they could be humping like rabbits, but guess what? When you fight with your partner the last thing you wanna do is be all cuddles, and if nothing else we KNOW Tifa was hurt and confused by Cloud leaving.

But he is comfortable with her. That's pretty obvious. They touch, maintain longer eye contact than ANYONE else in the film/game. They cuddle--even if you see nothing else--under the Highwind.

So where is it lacking?

I would have liked a warm embrace when Cloud comes back in Midgar during the Bahamut battle. A little moar enthusiasm from Tifa would have been nice, other than just staring at him while he talks and nodding along. imo, it would have been a good moment for Tifa to liek.. hug him from behind (not on Fenrir because that doesn't count ) or embrace him at some point because their lovers quarrel was at an end at that point.

When was he supposed to kiss her or hug her? They were in the midst of a falling out--remember? Tifa is hurt by his leaving and they reunite after he finds her beat to hell and their kids are missing. Soooo...tell me, where? realistically where and when would some good cuddle time be?

What better time to have make up sex than in the middle of an argument?

As much as I love cloti, I'm glad they didn't overdo it. Also, I still need comments on the quote from CoT I posted earlier:

After checking that Cloud was asleep, she spoke to him.
[...]
Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.​

Doesn't this imply sleeping in the same bed, for most people? I think it does

Can't it not imply that she was sleeping on the second bed of the room in the room with two beds like they were separately when Reno and Rude brought them back from the Church?

Or even she walked into the room and sat at the foot of the bed and watched him sleep, in the creepy way only Tifa knows how.

When did I say they weren't a couple? That has never been my argument.

jhc people.

inorite? They did that to me too with Cloud's light = Aerith thing. They completely misinterpret what w';re trying to say.

PROVE THAT THEY DID PLOX

omfg yes yes oh god yes. <3333 ilu

putting friendship AND love on equal foot because they don't want to lose anything, it's what makes them WHOLE.

I dunno, Tidus seemed to put Yuna on a whole nother level higher than everything else iirc.

I've had plenty of girlfriends, and I dont show public affection. Its a different story when we are alone, but in public, is there a NEED to hold hands and show EVERYONE that we are together? I'm not that insecure. It is also cultural in a sense. The most loveydovey couple we see in the FF's are either SquallXRinoa, or YunaXTidus, SR get a HUG, and YT get a kiss, and Tidus looks *EXTREMELY FRICKEN* surprised when he gets Yuna's little confession at the end. WHY? They KISSED didnt they!? That means they are in love RIGHT!? *Explodes*

Since when is it insecure to want to show physical affection in public? I do it all the time with my bf. Why? Because we're not ashamed or afraid to be affectionate in public. imo you're more insecure with your relationship if you feel the need to hide it from the prying eyes of the public.

As for Yuna's confession, I think it had more to do with devastation. I know I'd be heart broken if I just heard that confession from the one I loved right before I had to go back to not existing. It's a cruel harsh moment.

 

[Celes Chere]

How is Cloud Aerith's baby? Explain.

I'd say kid.

-Aerith smiles at Cloud and Tifa like an affectionate Mother.
-Aerith appears to people who are pained and confused as a loving Mother.
-Aerith is Mother to the planet.
-Cloud calls Aerith Mother.
-Aerith jokes with Zack about Cloud being too big to adopt.

-Tifa says she has Motherly feelings, yet her ideal love is still stated as Cloud.

See the difference?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

"I think I can meet her... there."

Would be nice to give a, "Are you alright, my love?" if it were the case.

Yeah, I can totally picture Cloud saying "Are you alright my love?" Lol.

Ask the creators why they chose to have Aerith die and Cloud bury her in fully rendered animation, whereas Tifa and Cloud falling into the lifestream looks... terrible.

...because her death is emotional and important to the story? Tell me though, is the Lifestream just Not Important because it's not fully rendered? You can't really do the sequence in silence, like Aerith's death and subsequent burial.

As for your comment about case of Tifa - how can we be sure based on that you have acknowledged that CoT is from Tifa's perspective - that we aren't seeing what Tifa wants us to see? Tifa's the one in love with Cloud - it's not been validated as reciprocal.

...What. Cloud acts by himself, which is more than I can say for the person in CoL, who isn't even named.

 

[ShuShu]

Strange that Cloud and Aerith would have their own little segment at the end of KH 1, then. He sought her out in FFTactics. You'd think they'd have Tifa in some of these games instead.

However, I think we should look to the actual game for Cloud's motivation and what he thinks. We'd all agree that the most pivital scenes are shown with FMV's - the introduction, the escape from the Shinra building, Sephiroth at the reactor, Aerith's death, Aerith's burial - all the scenes with Tifa involve her by herself or Cloud talking about another woman.

Yes, there own little segment, with ALL THE OTHER FF characters. He stares at her. THE ROMANCE. Not. What about Erghiez? Huh? NO AERITH THERE. And Cloud's title is 'The gaurdian' and Tifa's is 'The summoner' (I wonder what THATS a parralel of) And you fight Cloud, before you fight Tifa. EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.
In tactics he was searching for 'someone' he meets up with 'Flowergirl' whom is Aerith, so if he is searching for Aerith, why does he not go crazy and all "Oh Aerith, there you are.." Hm? Why?
Cloud talking about another woman? Excuse me, when? You mean when they were willing to DIE together, and meet Aerith, TOGETHER!? I still see no romance in favor of the Clerith pairing. Especially since RIGHT after him 'Talking about another woman' he starts flirting with Tifa. Smiling, blushing, asking to spend their life together, saying their bond will be different from now on, ya'know, the totally platonic shit that platonic relationship's go through. OWAIT.

Aw, come on. Stuff it. Aerith is as special to Cloud as is Tifa. Why is this being argued?

I kind of agree. I have a bestfriend whom I considered and love just as much as any crush I've ever had. He's always there for me, like a brother, and if anyone I ever loved had a problem with it, I'd be abit heartbroken, and vice versa towards him, so why is cherishing both such a bad idea, just in different ways? Is it impossible to NOT hurt one side of an argument? Or is there a way to reach an agreement?

I mean, its obvious Clouds feelings for Tifa are romantic, but their bond did just start to REALLY flourish after the crisis of saving the planet, and just right before, so they havent had much time, in time, maybe in another installment, we will see a cute Cloud and Tifa romance moment, but for now, for two very shy people, not much time has pasted.

Besides, I really dont think that Nomura and CO want to hurt their fans. I think that is a big factor to them. They love their fans, and all the stuff they do is for them (and the money of course) but really, FF7 fans are spoiled. We get everything. Including their own creators holding back for the sake of not isolating one side of an LTD that died in disc one. Quite literally.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

What better time to have make up sex than in the middle of an argument?
.

I got nothing. That would have been hot. Completely inappropriate considering the missing kids, planet crisis, but hot.

 

[Channy]

Hey, it's what real couples do.

 

[Zee]

Gees, you go for a nap and there's three moar pages. ;_;

Usually I can barely keep up anyway, people post with the quickness here. D:

-Tifa says she has Motherly feelings, yet her ideal love is still stated as Cloud.

Aeris' love is also consistently for Cloud FF7 and beyond, and it's clearly a romantic love. Why is it that Tifa can quite literally feel like Cloud's mother and that's not a problem, but Aeris, who is an abstract motherly figure, is given the most hits for this?

And also I come back around to why does the mother thing matter so much? Both women are romantic interests, motherly or not. Neither one of them actually popped out Cloud.

 

[HelpfullAlly]

I also noticed that I'm being ignored. It aggravated me.

LOL