The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Eerie]

If they can bring that, then I want to bring Cloud telling Aerith Tifa's his girlfriend, stealing her panties and so on

Also, Cloud's most romantic scenes are with Tifa and guess what? It's always the real Cloud. May it be the promise to be her knight who'll always rescue her - promise made under a star at a well known date spot - the Lifestream scene with those tenders memories or the night under the Highwind, I have yet to see any Clerith scene that tops that.

Also, please note that according to SE, both Aerith and Tifa's dates are important - the first one narratively, the second one because it puts things into perspective (Tifa thinks that if Aerith had been there, maybe she would have done something, but we know that it's not what Aerith does when she meets up with Cloud during the date). Also, as noticed, there's only one person that Cloud pressed to continue but who was 'Interrupted by the Fireworks'.

Somehow, I understand those who like Clerith better because they love Aerith more, but I've never quite understood the 'it is more romantic than CloTi!!' because honestly? CloTi had all the romance.

 

[Isabella]

Nice art, Vendel.

I have a genuine (not snarky for a change) question, because I'm an old lady and my memory is fuzzy: I've seen some Cleriths argue in the past that the reason Aerith can communicate with Cloud from the dead is because she is a Cetra. Is that based on some story element or some writer statement or some such, or is that speculation on their part? I can't remember where that idea came from. It would seem to be shot down by Zack being able to communicate with him.

It would seem to me the most likely explanation is they can communicate with him simply because they have a connection to him. This sort of spiritual communication has happened in plenty of other works of fiction, and there usually isn't some special explanation required. It's just accepted.

 

[A]

May it be the promise to be her knight who'll always rescue her - promise made under a star at a well known date spot - the Lifestream scene with those tenders memories or the night under the Highwind, I have yet to see any Clerith scene that tops that.

Agreed. Unlike the promise that he would be her bodygarud for some gil - ending up trying to murder her and then angsting for some time feeling guilty over her death, which is not romantic. And then only meeting once again... two years later after the game. There are no romantic scenes between Cloud and Aerith. And even if it's considered to be romantic, it's still all a complete fake.

 

[Fighter]

Cloud liked Tifa for so long before she even gave him the time of day, and even now Tifa loves Cloud but he hasn't confirmed shit, so it's just more waiting.

"Cloud and Tifa confirm their mutual feelings under the Highwind" ~ Ultimania (paraphrasing).

Cloud's feelings = Tifa's feelings.

 

[Vendel]

"Cloud and Tifa confirm their mutual feelings under the Highwind" ~ Ultimania (paraphrasing).

Cloud's feelings = Tifa's feelings.

Of friendship.....

 

[A]

I think that's in the DoC guide?

And usually that's supposedly debunked with feelings of friendship, unfortunately. Obviously they were friends before, so it doesn't count.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And then that's when we bring up the fact that Tifa doesn't just see Cloud as a friend

 

[Raquelborn]

Lol, personally I don't like them but I guess they are soulmates. But I meant really not the mean part but the part of waiting for someone to love you back. Rinoa seemed to have a crush in the beginning and then they both got to know each other and did things for each other before they were in love, imo. Cloud liked Tifa for so long before she even gave him the time of day, and even now Tifa loves Cloud but he hasn't confirmed shit, so it's just more waiting.

But he has told her that he wants to be with her from now onwards. There's only so many ways you can interpret that. He also says he'll always be there to remind her of who she is (and he blushed = he was embarassed to say it).

If you watch AC/C carefully you will also notice that Tifa wears a wolf ring on her right hand (and Denzel has the same ring round his neck) which is the same as all the wolf jewellery Cloud wears. I don't feel I need to elaborate on this point, it's pretty obvious what SE were thinking when they did this.

You could also take this extract from Case of Tifa to be him basically admitting he loves her:

“Do you love me?”
Cloud woke up, a perplexed look on his face.
“Hey, Cloud. Do you love Marlene?”
“Yeah. But sometimes I don’t know how to approach her.”
“Even though we’ve been together for some time?”
“Maybe that just isn’t enough.”
“Even we aren’t enough for you?”
Cloud didn’t answer.
“Sorry for asking some strange things.”
“Don’t apologize. It’s my problem.”
Cloud closed his eyes.

To explain better, he's obviously heard at least part of her original question, hence his perplexed face. Her use of "we've" indicates they're not talking exclusively about Cloud's relationship with Marlene, otherwise she'd be using "you've". This could be a slip of the tongue on Tifa's part (as obviously she's initally asking how he feels about her) but Cloud doesn't even seem to pause or change how he speaks because of it. And "I don't know how to approach her" relates more to his problems of communication with Tifa (he admitted to the same problem underneath the Highwind in the OG) than it does to Marlene. Afterall, he wouldn't have many reasons to 'approach' Marlene.

Spirtual connection to me is the fact that Nomura said that Aerith lives on inside of Cloud. Their spirits are connected in that way, it's why Cloud can talk to her it seems in AC.

But Nomura is relating this to how his grandmother lives on in him and so on so he's only meaning it in a 'memory of a dear one' way, not a romantic way.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hmmm ... sounds like a setup to a plot twist.

A PLOT TWIST? In my FF7? It's more likely than you might think.

Seriously though, You can't stress the plot twist enough for FF7, especially in this thread.

Nice art, Vendel.

I have a genuine (not snarky for a change) question, because I'm an old lady and my memory is fuzzy: I've seen some Cleriths argue in the past that the reason Aerith can communicate with Cloud from the dead is because she is a Cetra. Is that based on some story element or some writer statement or some such, or is that speculation on their part? I can't remember where that idea came from. It would seem to be shot down by Zack being able to communicate with him.

It would seem to me the most likely explanation is they can communicate with him simply because they have a connection to him. This sort of spiritual communication has happened in plenty of other works of fiction, and there usually isn't some special explanation required. It's just accepted.

I don't think there's any particular reason why they can communicate from the dead because they're special, but because the state of the lifestream.

Though I do think her ability to dreamspeak while alive was Cetra powers, though I'm not sure about Sephiroth, he could either be learned/ assumed Cetra powers or Jenova dickery.

 

[Fighter]

I think that's in the DoC guide?

It's in both CC & 10th Ultimanias.

And usually that's supposedly debunked with feelings of friendship, unfortunately. Obviously they were friends before, so it doesn't count.

Right. Feelings of friendship conveyed without words in a risqué scene.

 

[Vendel]

Right. Feelings of friendship conveyed without words in a risqué scene.

Friends with benefits at best. It can't possibly be romantic in any way. Because that would just be impossible with the true story of FF7.


And Raquelborn don't ignore me! /crazy rapid

 

[Raquelborn]

I have a genuine (not snarky for a change) question, because I'm an old lady and my memory is fuzzy: I've seen some Cleriths argue in the past that the reason Aerith can communicate with Cloud from the dead is because she is a Cetra. Is that based on some story element or some writer statement or some such, or is that speculation on their part? I can't remember where that idea came from. It would seem to be shot down by Zack being able to communicate with him.

I think it stemmed from MoTP but I'm not entirely sure either. It's not in CoL and if anything, when I read that I got the impression that Aerith would like to communicate with Cloud but can't. It's only due to the events just preceding AC that she can during the movie.

Except it points out that she hears him sleeping. She did not 'walk in' to ask him a question. She was there listening to him sleep then asked him a question. And had to cover for it when he woke up.

"After making certain that Cloud was asleep, she spoke to him."

Also Cloud goes back to sleep and she continues to talk to him. He doesn't answer her.
That is a vastly different scenario than you imagined it as.

I'm aware it doesn't mention Tifa walking in but it doesn't mention her being in the same bed or turning over in bed either. That's why it isn't clear, that's why I didn't see it that way initially and I'm still not convinced. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

But you know when I consider that particular line it does sound like she was present and listening for an awful long time before she spoke, and I'm sure Cloud would of noticed her lurking at his bedside for all that time. So it makes sense they share the same room, but I can't buy the bed, I feel it's possible but we can never know for sure. (But I would definitely like to think so lol).

Also after all these pages NO ONE HAS COMPLIMENTED MY ART!

I liked your art .

 

[Fighter]

So it makes sense they share the same room, but I can't buy the bed...

Why?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Why would they need to say midway through the paragraph that "oh, btw, just so you know, they ARE on teh same bed"?

The fact that they've slept together already/confirmed their feelings for each other under the Highwind and started a family together already supports the idea of them sleeping together.
You wouldn't, as the audience, think it strange if Tifa stood by Cloud in the middle of the night listening to him speak and questioning their relationship.

It's fairly normal. In fact, NOT sleeping together in teh same room/bed is what requires mental gymnastics.
I mean, what? Tifa walks in and watches him sleep? She is perched atop his bed like a gargoyle? What? And if being in his room in the middle of the night is not the norm then why doesn't Cloud's reaction tell us that? No, Cloud is perfectly fine waking to Tifa rambling on about shit. Must be cause they don't share a room/bed normally.

Come on, people.

 

[Eerie]

So it makes sense they share the same room, but I can't buy the bed, I feel it's possible but we can never know for sure. (But I would definitely like to think so lol).

TBH, that's pretty much a moot point, because many couples don't share the same bed although they do share the same room - and then you have the couples who don't even share the same room XD

So, if Cloud even shares only a room with Tifa, how does this change anything? I'm just so puzzled at this. It means that they don't have sex every night? I thought so anyway

In the end, you still have two adults who already had sex together, are aware of their mutual feelings because they confessed them in a oh-so risqué way, raise a kid and half [since some want to count Marlene and some don't] together, forming a family... and they share a room, if not a bed.

Is it so illogical to think that they are in a romantic relationship?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I'm with Fighter. WHY do you think they share a room but not a bed?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Somehow, I understand those who like Clerith better because they love Aerith more, but I've never quite understood the 'it is more romantic than CloTi!!' because honestly? CloTi had all the romance.

Because Clerith is a tragic, whimsical kind of romance and Cloti is a realistic romance. Obviously the daydreamer types would prefer Clerith.

because many couples in 1950s television don't share the same bed although they do share the same room

fixed.

 

[Vendel]

It's fairly normal. In fact, NOT sleeping together in teh same room/bed is what requires mental gymnastics.
I mean, what? Tifa walks in and watches him sleep? She is perched atop his bed like a gargoyle? What? And if being in his room in the middle of the night is not the norm then why doesn't Cloud's reaction tell us that? No, Cloud is perfectly fine waking to Tifa rambling on about shit. Must be cause they don't share a room/bed normally.

Come on, people.

Highlighted for the lulz.

Also let me re-point out. Tifa makes sure Cloud is asleep. Asks him something. He wakes up they have a little chat. Then when Cloud goes back to sleep she ask him another question and waits for his answer. That he doesn't give.

As my illustrations pointed out and others have elaborated on. This scene only plays out naturally if they are sharing a bed/room.

 

[Isabella]

Er, wait, it's common for couples to share a room but not a bed? Is that a cultural thing? Because that would be highly unusual here in the States, certainly.

 

[Eerie]

Well, Ravynne, you'd be surprised - I used to think like you until I saw the real deal

Also, for the monkeyshines matter, we should point out that Tifa's parents had a double beds room, not one bed. So yeah

That said, with how they teased when Cloud awakes after the church scene to find Tifa by his side? Made me think "stop skirting around, SE! "

Edit: not a cultural thing lol. I just merely pointed that yes, it STILL exists, believe it or not XD

 

[crack]

I don't really see the hype with Cloud not answering Tifa to be honest. Cleriths are always assuming that because they have problems in their relationship, they have bad chemistry and they're not meant to be,' but don't Rinoa and Squall have the same issues as well? What can they say about that? And no offense, but Aerith is dead. And he has a busty hot woman who can take perfectly good care for him. I doubt that Cloud would stay single forever. Cloud and Tifa live together for fuck's sake, there's bound to be something happening eventually, be it a cheesy moment like the accidental touching of hands when they grab for the same dish, or maybe someone commenting them as husband and wife.

 

[Raquelborn]

So, if Cloud even shares only a room with Tifa, how does this change anything? I'm just so puzzled at this. It means that they don't have sex every night? I thought so anyway

I never got the impression they shared a bed from reading CoT so I challenged the notion. The only thing it would change if they shared a bed would be how intimate they are in their relationship.

In the end, you still have two adults who already had sex together, are aware of their mutual feelings because they confessed them in a oh-so risqué way, raise a kid and half [since some want to count Marlene and some don't] together, forming a family... and they share a room, if not a bed.

Is it so illogical to think that they are in a romantic relationship?

I never said they weren't in a romantic relationship. I just don't buy that they share the same bed in CoT because I never got that impression. The end.

The fact that they've slept together already/confirmed their feelings for each other under the Highwind and started a family together already supports the idea of them sleeping together.
You wouldn't, as the audience, think it strange if Tifa stood by Cloud in the middle of the night listening to him speak and questioning their relationship.

You're right, I didn't find it strange if that was what she was doing, hence why I never thought they shared a bed in the first place.

It's fairly normal. In fact, NOT sleeping together in teh same room/bed is what requires mental gymnastics.
I mean, what? Tifa walks in and watches him sleep? She is perched atop his bed like a gargoyle? What? And if being in his room in the middle of the night is not the norm then why doesn't Cloud's reaction tell us that? No, Cloud is perfectly fine waking to Tifa rambling on about shit. Must be cause they don't share a room/bed normally.

I honestly don't see what's so unbelievable about her not being in his bed when she speaks to him.

Why?

There isn't enough that we can gather from the text that allows us to be sure.

Also let me re-point out. Tifa makes sure Cloud is asleep. Asks him something. He wakes up they have a little chat. Then when Cloud goes back to sleep she ask him another question and waits for his answer. That he doesn't give.

As my illustrations pointed out and others have elaborated on. This scene only plays out naturally if they are sharing a bed/room.

And I've said that I can see it's very likely they share a room now. Sheesh.

 

[Vendel]

That said, with how they teased when Cloud awakes after the church scene to find Tifa by his side? Made me think "stop skirting around, SE! "

Someone pointed out that when he wakes up (in a bed) he almost immediately looks to his right. As if he expected Tifa to be there.

So we know who sleeps on what side of the bed.

And I've said that I can see it's very likely they share a room now. Sheesh.

Ah...but your origional assertion for that scene was that she walks in. Accidentally wakes him up. Asks him a few questions, then leaves. When the scene plays out drastically diffrent than that.

 

[Frostwave]

Aw Vendel I'm such a rapid. When I read ^, I went and looked for that scene on youtube like "O rly?".

 

[Isabella]

I doubt that Cloud would stay single forever.

But that would mess with the whimsical fantasy of Cloud forever dedicating himself to a woman he knew two weeks, forsaking all others.

As someone above said, that ideal appeals to the daydreamers. They don't want a realistic look at romance.