The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Dashell]

I know I thought this would be a topic about people arguing Tifa vs Aerith but... I find people talking about a bed for 10 pages XD

Maybe we need to add something new to the mix! So who thinks Cloud and Yuffie should go together? They went on a date and she kissed him!

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I still recall- though not fondly- when the only thing people would defend C/A with was claims of an undefinable, example free, 'chemistry' that Cloud and Tifa somehow didn't have despite everything.

It's sort of sad, because this is used for many canon couples that people say they don't like. "NeroxKyrie has no chemistry, he's so much better with GLORIA" or shit like that. olo love triangles.

 

[KissTheRain]

KisstheRain's "theory" mighthave merit, imagination and even sound incredibly romantic but, as far as we have been shown and facts impliy, all the evidence goes to contradict/deny pretty much what you claim to be truth.

Final Fantasy VII's love story is all based on interpretation. That's all. Imo, I believe Cloud loved Aerith and seeing by CoL she reciprocated it. I think they are the intended couple and I understand many of my statements are opinion oriented and that's what I intended, i'm not saying they are canon but in my interpretations, I believe so. But, I agree with some of the factual things on Cloti you say. I like Cloti too. There is many ways they can be considered canon also, and I see how you could consider them sleeping in the same room and such. I've deducted most Cloti fans are realists and Clerith's are idealists. Cloti's enjoy the idea of Cloud and Tifa starting a family, going through hell together working and what not. As for most Clerith fans they like the idea of the hero and heroine falilng in love and having a connection that surpasses death, something more fantasy like.

This is just what i'm thinking, feel free to agree. I'm not lying, I do like both but Clerith seems like the proper pick for the game final *fantasy*

You can believe in what you want, sure, no one is saying otherwise, but if you want to pass it as fact, then you need to back it up with evidence... which hasn't been done until now. In fact, the compilation pretty much points in a complete opposite direction of what you seem to believe and claim as the truth.

Like, I said I don't really care which one is canon, I was just telling them why cloud and aerith to me seem to have the more destiny aspired relationship, which could be looked at in a spiritual sense. And not to argue, but you can't say the whole compilation points to Cloti, i'd say it's a good half/half, and whatever you really want. I just wanted to say what I thought, because it said nothing that this is a debate forum just a place to answer the thread right? Like Cloti, i'm not stopping any of you. U_U

 

[Isabella]

If that's true... then... how'd this topic get over 400 replies?

The game is set up to make you expect certain things to happen (i.e., Cloud and Aerith are destined to hook up), then the twist comes and tosses all assumptions aside, makes us view everything in a new light. But a lot of players got so emotionally invested in the love story they thought they saw developing that they didn't recognize the twist when it came. That's why this debate is undying after all these years, because of that emotional investment. The pseudo-love story played into the romantic ideals of some players and they don't want to let go.

 

[Dashell]

And not to argue, but you can't say the whole compilation points to Cloti, i'd say it's a good half/half, and whatever you really want.

Uhm... no... at least not the whole compilation, maybe just FFVII by itself.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Like, I said I don't really care which one is canon, I was just telling them why cloud and aerith to me seem to have the more destiny aspired relationship, which could be looked at in a spiritual sense. And not to argue, but you can't say the whole compilation points to Cloti, i'd say it's a good half/half, and whatever you really want. I just wanted to say what I thought, because it said nothing that this is a debate forum just a place to answer the thread right? Like Cloti, i'm not stopping any of you. U_U

this isn't a debate forum, yes, but this thread IS the debate thread. If you wanted to say you prefer Cloud/Aerith with no desire to debate it, then you should have stated so in the CloAer thread.

 

[KissTheRain]

Uhm... no... at least not the whole compilation, maybe just FFVII by itself.

It's still just more interpretation. You could say Cloud was thinking of Aerith all of AC not Tifa one bit and then it could be more Clerith or once again just even because of CC. Someone could have counted all of VII Clerith or vice versa for Cloti. Just opinionated really. :/

If you wanted to say you prefer Cloud/Aerith with no desire to debate it, then you should have stated so in the CloAer thread.

Maybe, maybe but once again this isn't a debate thread. It is a who Cloud is destined for thread. Why did if Cloud sleeps in the same bed of Tifa come it? Sleeping in the same room has nothing to do with destiny.

 

[Dashell]

You could say Cloud was thinking of Aerith all of AC not Tifa one bit

But then you'd be a liar O_o

 

[Vendel]

Final Fantasy VII's love story is all based on interpretation. That's all. Imo, I believe Cloud loved Aerith and seeing by CoL she reciprocated it. I think they are the intended couple and I understand many of my statements are opinion oriented and that's what I intended, i'm not saying they are canon but in my interpretations, I believe so.

Your contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that your interpretation is valid. Then saying it is probably not canon. It's one or the other. Either your opinion is what you believe to be canon or not. It's not really that open.

I've deducted most Cloti fans are realists and Clerith's are idealists. Cloti's enjoy the idea of Cloud and Tifa starting a family, going through hell together working and what not. As for most Clerith fans they like the idea of the hero and heroine falilng in love and having a connection that surpasses death, something more fantasy like.

Cloud and Tifa are portrayed realistically as a couple who have gone through and continue to go through extraordinary things. Coming through all of that and still being a couple is what makes it endearing.

You don't need love after death and years of wangst to make it an epic love story.

 

[A]

Like, I said I don't really care which one is canon, I was just telling them why cloud and aerith to me seem to have the more destiny aspired relationship, which could be looked at in a spiritual sense. And not to argue, but you can't say the whole compilation points to Cloti, i'd say it's a good half/half, and whatever you really want. I just wanted to say what I thought, because it said nothing that this is a debate forum just a place to answer the thread right? Like Cloti, i'm not stopping any of you. U_U

The reason why we state that it points directly to Cloti is the fact that Aerith never met the real Cloud with their time together. To add to that, they knew each other for two whole weeks. Then you have Cloud trying to kill Aerith, and all you see is Cloud feeling guilt for Aerith. That is all.

On the other hand, with Tifa, much more variety rather with Aerith. He reveals his deepest secrets to her, even begging her not to tell anyone the truth. Desires revolving around her. A rocky relationship that's idealistic for a movie plot, to be honest. Cloud and Tifa having their problems is realistically similar to any other couple.

No offense, really, but the fact that you called Tifa a bitch doesn't exactly show me that you seem to approve of Cloti. She was never a bitch to Cloud, but you don't seem to understand that Cloud blamed on himself (which, it was his fault). No one with a liking of Cloti would say that Tifa was a bitch to Cloud - why would someone like a pairing when they think the other is a bitch? It's like me saying (an example, mind you) that Aerith was a slut for throwing herself on Cloud but I still like that pairing. It doesn't really add up. Your being contradictory.

Final Fantasy VII's love story is not based on interpretation at all. In the end, Cloud does end up with someone. And it's Tifa. There are numerous quotes stating this, such as:

"Cloud and Tifa reveal their mutual feelings for each other."

Cloud's feelings = Tifa's feelings. Their the same. And it's feelings of love.

Also, this is a debate thread, not a debate forum. If you want to state your opinion on Clerith without debating with anyone, you can post in the Clerith club. Otherwise, this is a debate thread.

Maybe, maybe but once again this isn't a debate thread. It is a who Cloud is destined for thread. Why did if Cloud sleeps in the same bed of Tifa come it? Sleeping in the same room has nothing to do with destiny.

You're right about that, but up to know there have been no Cleriths to debate with because apparently we're all rabid and will give out our Cloti shit if they dare come on the board. When there have been Cleriths, we debate with them. When they suddenly disappear for an unknown reason, it comes back to the regular schedule.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I know I thought this would be a topic about people arguing Tifa vs Aerith but... I find people talking about a bed for 10 pages XD

Maybe we need to add something new to the mix! So who thinks Cloud and Yuffie should go together? They went on a date and she kissed him!

I hereby approve and mandate this new topic.

Okay, who does Yuffie more want to get with, Cloud or Tifa?

 

[Death Sin]

I still recall- though not fondly- when the only thing people would defend C/A with was claims of an undefinable, example free, 'chemistry' that Cloud and Tifa somehow didn't have despite everything.

Evidence has never really been the strong suit of the C/A crowd.

I recall way back in the day, when their Modus Operandi was to assume C/A was ZOMFG Godtrue canon and anyone even deigning to claim Cloud had a hint of Romance for Tifa needed to submit a thesis notrized in triplicate.

Then folks like me, Null, Bella, et. al asked them to back up their claims- this was before AC, even- and it all started going to pot for them. Then AC, and the pot was flushed.

Wow, things really changed over the years, haven't they? I still remember that back in the day both sides actually listened and at least seemed to respect each other. Yeah, we used to debunk the game's script, almost quote by quote but it was fun and the discussion was actually enjoyable for most part.

Of course that there was the occasional flaming here and there but nothing like some of the stuff I've seen sprouting on by the time I decided it was time to leave and move on (Uni kicked in and not much time after the announcement of AC was made, so pretty much every point of discussion could become moot with the new film's release. With work, uni and my own forums to help with, I really didn't have the time to compromise to debate so intensely as before, hence why I did refuse a staff position on the Northern Crater forum a few years ago.)

But it wasn't just that... There were so many other compilations titles being announced, ultimanias published, etc, etc that it was difficult enough to keep track of all of that new information... and, until all the titles were out, speculation would always arise and be used as "evidence" so it seemed more wise to just wait, play/read the new stull and then make our own conclusions. I would be lying if I didn't say that I am quite pleased to see that the pairing I always saw as the more logical/canon based *only* on the original game, all those years ago is the one that has been supported and pointed out throughout the entire FF7 Compilation).

But yeah, all of this to say that things seemed to have changed a bit since then and nowadays (from what I've seen and read), at least some of the CloudxAerith shippers seem to have gone a bit too extreme and frankly end up even hurting the characters they claim to love and respect so much. I don't know, I think that if you are a true FF/ fan, you would respect and accept what the narrative/story has given/shown to you, even if you didn't personally like it. Yet, to make of the LTD a "holy like war" doesn't seem right to me... and, I'm sorry to say it, that's what I see some CloudxAerith supporters doing nowadays (not all of them, thankfully, but some none of the less)

Actually, it's kinda sad to see things turned like that, especially since I know some of the people of the CloudxAerith side (including from Destiny Fulfilled) and they were truly awesome, respectful people back in the day (and I want to believe they still are nowadays too) who actually backed up their claims and interpretations. If that was lost somewhere along the road, well, it only hurts one side's credibility.

 

[Vendel]

I hereby approve and mandate this new topic.

Okay, who does Yuffie more want to get with, Cloud or Tifa?

Rikku.

The universe would explode from two jail bait Genki Girl's going at it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well, even druing the pre-AC days, there were folks who had nothing worthwhile to say, and even they've gotten worse with time. daflock1, for example, and her claim that only Cloud, Aerith, and Sephiroth mattered at all to the story of FF7, and I felt she included Sephypoo only because he was the final villain.

Then there are some quite lulzy post AC claims, like that Cloud was a cetra and and wanted to join his Cetra family in the lifestream during AC.

Or any of the 'Cloud wanted to die' crowd.

Rival Orphanages... Heh.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Maybe, maybe but once again this isn't a debate thread. It is a who Cloud is destined for thread. Why did if Cloud sleeps in the same bed of Tifa come it? Sleeping in the same room has nothing to do with destiny.

Yes, yes it is...erm, monkeyshines thread... but I digress.

No, sleeping in the same room in and of itself speaks not of destiny; however, growing up in the same small town, developing a crush, swearing an oath to become a hero for that crush and then years later fulfilling that very oath to the ONE person left surviving from your ruined childhood (who happens to be that VERY girl you promised to begin with) and saving the planet from fiery destruction so that you can start a new life WITH that person...and as a result end up sleeping together in the same bed...yeah...destiny. Fulfilled, even.

Yeah, I went there.

 

[KissTheRain]

But then you'd be a liar O_o

To some people, to others not. I think both girls got a good amount of attention from Cloud. That's why Sephy came...he was jealous. O.O

Your contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that your interpretation is valid. Then saying it is probably not canon. It's one or the other. Either your opinion is what you believe to be canon or not. It's not really that open.

Lol, i'm confusing myself. Haha, I was trying to say that if I chose which one is canon it would be Clerith, but neither couple is atm. I want Clerith to be canon more than I want Cloti to be but in the truth the idea of Cloud being single is fine too.

You don't need love after death and years of wangst to make it an epic love story.

Yes, I know that I mean I love many other couples that the other isn't dead, but in my eyes an idealistic couple (which would never happen in reality) wouldn't fight really and be very loving. That's just me though...

On the other hand, with Tifa, much more variety rather with Aerith. He reveals his deepest secrets to her, even begging her not to tell anyone the truth. Desires revolving around her. A rocky relationship that's idealistic for a movie plot, to be honest. Cloud and Tifa having their problems is realistically similar to any other couple.

From your interpretations, you believe that. I think Aerith has a lot of intresting points to add to the relationship. Such as she told Cloud deep secrets (that she never told Zack) like her being a Cetra, and Cloud wanted to be forgiven by her and that was the most important thing to him. Both of them wanting to meet each other I think it is beautiful. And yes those parts of Cloti are lovely but you can't deny that Clerith has no appealing points what so ever. haha, i'm contridicting myself here debating for Clerith aren't I? xD

No offense, really, but the fact that you called Tifa a bitch doesn't exactly show me that you seem to approve of Cloti.

-sigh- This is how it always goes...9_9
To start I can't recall me calling Tifa a bitch, I just believe Tifa was a spoiled, popular girl when she was a child and even if Cloud didn't try for her attention she still never recognized him because she was off with her friends. I love Tifa now, I just dislike her as a child. Cloti? You want me to tell you the points I like of it, then will you be happy?

"Cloud and Tifa reveal their mutual feelings for each other."

This was from the CC book, which was pre-FFVII and we already knew Cloud had a crush on Tifa then, and of course her too. Love maybe? But if Cloud loved Tifa then and continued to why does it not show it later than that?

Yeah, I went there.

Haha, you evil, evil person. Damn I must go Cloti now...
xD

FHS? Your at the Fack forums right? You make the beautiful icons right? <3

 

[Edley]

I hereby approve and mandate this new topic.

Okay, who does Yuffie more want to get with, Cloud or Tifa?

Hold on let me consult some .... reading material.

Tifa, Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Cloud, Vincent, Rude, Red XIII, Reno, Tifa, Tifa, Aerith, Aerith, Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Vincent, Red XIII, Barret :wtf: , Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Maloboro.

 

[A]

To start I can't recall me calling Tifa a bitch, I just believe Tifa was a spoiled, popular girl when she was a child and even if Cloud didn't try for her attention she still never recognized him because she was off with her friends. I love Tifa now, I just dislike her as a child. Cloti? You want me to tell you the points I like of it, then will you be happy?

Idk, if your being sarcastic or not, but yes Tifa was a bitch to Cloud she isn't now.

^ Does that spark your memory by any chance?

From your interpretations, you believe that. I think Aerith has a lot of intresting points to add to the relationship. Such as she told Cloud deep secrets (that she never told Zack) like her being a Cetra, and Cloud wanted to be forgiven by her and that was the most important thing to him. Both of them wanting to meet each other I think it is beautiful. And yes those parts of Cloti are lovely but you can't deny that Clerith has no appealing points what so ever. haha, i'm contridicting myself here debating for Clerith aren't I? xD

Her telling Cloud her secrets like being a Cetra? Yeah, that's not love coming from Cloud. In the Japanese movie Cloud doesn't say that. He says, "Yeah, I want to be forgiven... yeah, forgiven." In the English movie, if they said that, it'd be out of sync with his mouth, so they used that line instead. Both of them wanting to meet each other? You mean, like two years later?

This was from the CC book, which was pre-FFVII and we already knew Cloud had a crush on Tifa then, and of course her too. Love maybe? But if Cloud loved Tifa then and continued to why does it not show it later than that?

Wtf do you meant? It's stated that they reveal their mutual feelings for each other in the Lifestream (or it may be Highwind scene), not before FFVII itself. That proves that they do have feelings for each other. And again, do we really have to go over the fact that couples have problems with their relationships?

And I don't see Cloud ever blushing in front of Aerith. CoT:

Cloud blushed, smiling.

Or Tifa being Cloud's catalyst:

Tifa is the catalyst to Cloud's will to fight.

There's plenty more I can bring up, if you'd like.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

It's like me saying (an example, mind you) that Aerith was a slut for throwing herself on Cloud but I still like that pairing. It doesn't really add up. Your being contradictory.

That's not true. I think Lucrecia was a ho but I still love her and ship VinLu.

Though I do agree that certain insinuations inherent in believing that Tifa had no business choosing to behave and/or feel the way she did as a child (or at any time) does nothing for the female species.

Yuffie cannot be paired with Rikku because it violates the laws of Physics which state that one person can not be in two places at the same time. (In this case, those two places being top and bottom.)

Tifa, Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Cloud, Vincent, Rude, Red XIII, Reno, Tifa, Tifa, Aerith, Aerith, Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Vincent, Red XIII, Barret :wtf: , Tifa, Tifa, Cloud, Maloboro.

What, no Cid? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

FHS? Your at the Fack forums right? You make the beautiful icons right? <3

I've been known to, yes.

 

[Death Sin]

From your interpretations, you believe that. I think Aerith has a lot of intresting points to add to the relationship. Such as she told Cloud deep secrets (that she never told Zack) like her being a Cetra,

Someone else feel free to correct my fuzzy memory but I don't remember Aerith knowing she was a Cetra during the time of CC (when she and Zack met and had their relationship). If that's the case and she didn't know about it, then how could she share that secret with Zack? Kinda "kills" your point there (that she shared it with Zack and not with Cloud).

 

[Ryushikaze]

Lol, i'm confusing myself. Haha, I was trying to say that if I chose which one is canon it would be Clerith, but neither couple is atm. I want Clerith to be canon more than I want Cloti to be but in the truth the idea of Cloud being single is fine too.

How is Single!Cloud better than Cloti!Cloud, exactly?
And I disagree. C/T is the choice Cloud himself made.

Yes, I know that I mean I love many other couples that the other isn't dead, but in my eyes an idealistic couple (which would never happen in reality) wouldn't fight really and be very loving. That's just me though...

That idealistic couple would be dead boring and slightly disturbed.
Seriously, though, FF Couples in general aren't this ideal you speak of. I can't even think of a single one that is. The closest would be Zerith.

From your interpretations, you believe that. I think Aerith has a lot of intresting points to add to the relationship. Such as she told Cloud deep secrets (that she never told Zack) like her being a Cetra, and Cloud wanted to be forgiven by her and that was the most important thing to him.

No, that's what he wanted from her, more than anything else, going by the dub. Going by the subs, he wants to be forgiven, and simply reiterates this.

Both of them wanting to meet each other I think it is beautiful.

But Cloud never expresses a desire to meet Aerith. Tifa does. Cloud simply expresses the idea that even if they die, they can meet fallen friends, Aerith includied, in the lifestream. Thus spake UO.

And yes those parts of Cloti are lovely but you can't deny that Clerith has no appealing points what so ever.

Well, we can point out it doesn't really have any canonical points.

haha, i'm contridicting myself here debating for Clerith aren't I? xD

-sigh- This is how it always goes...9_9
To start I can't recall me calling Tifa a bitch, I just believe Tifa was a spoiled, popular girl when she was a child and even if Cloud didn't try for her attention she still never recognized him because she was off with her friends.

And Cloud was always getting into random fights with her friends and other kids. And the one time he tried to get into the group, he was allowed in.

I love Tifa now, I just dislike her as a child. Cloti? You want me to tell you the points I like of it, then will you be happy?

But what do you dislike her for? Something which is Cloud's own fault by his own admission.

This was from the CC book, which was pre-FFVII and we already knew Cloud had a crush on Tifa then, and of course her too. Love maybe? But if Cloud loved Tifa then and continued to why does it not show it later than that?

It's IN REFERENCE to the lifestream sequence and Highwind scene. It is not Pre-FFVII in the slightest

Also, Yuf/Rik can work, it just requires a time machine, or the intervention of someone like Cosmos or Chaos. But more Cosmos, so it can be a threeway.

 

[KissTheRain]

A, I don't want your facts. Like I said I don't care really which one is canon. I'm not big on LTD like you obviosly are. I'm just saying a couple bits of info I know and believe and you seem to think it's a war. No like Cloti, believe it is canon I don't really care much.

And I don't see Cloud ever blushing in front of Aerith. CoT:

Come on, but the smile on camera wasn't enough? With music called Cloud smiles?

Yeah, that's not love coming from Cloud.

Ok, well I still think they are nice together I'll just say my opinion again I guess saying he can find Aerith in the promised land and the promised land is supreme happiness right, then why would Aerith be in his...

But what do you dislike her for?

Not so much, just her outfit as a teen was rather.....and popular kids like her getting love from every boy in town really I just can't say i'm a fan of. And if you ask, no i'm not a Yuna fan. T_T

I've been known to, yes.

Oh, now i'm your official stalker aren't I? xD
I love your sig btw, very nice.

Someone else feel free to correct my fuzzy memory but I don't remember Aerith knowing she was a Cetra during the time of CC

Yes, Aerith knew from the start I believe. She went to the church because she could here the planet their and talk to her mother. It was her sanctuary. ^-^
But at one part in VII she denys she is a Cetra to Tseng, which I believe she did so because she didnt' want him to talk her away and she didn't want to be different. Just my speculation though...

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

That's not true. I think Lucrecia was a ho but I still love her and ship VinLu.

Hey, what if she really liked Hojo and just felt too angsty to be with Vinny-boy? I like LuLu.

but in my eyes an idealistic couple (which would never happen in reality) wouldn't fight really and be very loving. That's just me though...

Maybe I'm just being a bitter old woman, but liking a couple because they wouldn't fight would be terribly unhealthy for both parties. One party would just quietly deal with stuff because they don't want to bother their partner, even if something the partner did really pissed them off. That's just how I see it.

 

[A]

What do you mean? This is an LTD thread, it's obviously meant for that kind of shit. If you're going to give an opinion or your tell us about your beliefs without bothering to debate or having the desire to, like others have said, do that somewhere else. If you're looking to have an actual debate and discussion properly, then this is the wrong thread for you.

Oh, and believe me. I totally take this shit seriously. It is a war, that's totally what I think of it.

Come on, but the smile on camera wasn't enough? With music called Cloud smiles?

I don't want your facts.

Aren't you doing the same...?

Cloud smiles at Tifa as well. And when he's smiling at Aerith, don't forget that Zack is there.