The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Even in Japan, with the influx of Western modernization viewpoints, the stigma of cohabitation without marriage is losing its stigma. It's not that surprising or unheard of anymore.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Even in Japan, with the influx of Western modernization viewpoints, the stigma of cohabitation without marriage is losing its stigma. It's not that surprising or unheard of anymore.

Which is why I see the validity of both sides. No one said it was surprising or unheard of. Both sides are valid, but everyone else seems dead set on saying Cloud and Tifa are sleeping in one bed/on two beds like it's a huge deal. It's not even relevant to the LT. :awesome:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Umm, the sleeping arrangements are a legitimate and relevant topic of the LT because it speaks to their behavior as a couple raising a family.

One behavior is indicative of them being an actual couple and matches them being in love and in a relationship, while the other is indicative of them being roommates. Take a guess on which behavior matches the connotations.
 

A

Great Old One
What do you mean Mei? If they were sharing a bed, I think it would be a bit more than obvious that they were a couple. So yes, it pertains the LT.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
It is? I always thought that didn't matter, because there are other stuff pointing to Cloti anyway. :monster: Whether or not they share a bed doesn't affect all the other Cloti proofs in the LT IMO. Nor does it disprove the pairing.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
But it's still part of the overall picture of their relationship. Yeah, it doesn't invalidate everything else, but it still pertains to their relationship.

Them somehow having this bond and relationship, but only sleeping in separate beds in the same bedroom is completely incongruous.

Unless Cloud has night terrors and vivid nightmares that are so unbearably loud and disturbing, that he wakes up screaming and punching anything within a 3 foot radius, thus requiring Tifa to be at a safe distance so that she can console him and tuck him back into bed....I seriously don't see the reason as to why they just wouldn't take "the path of least relationship resistance" and just lay in the same damn bed and cuddle together.

Or maybe Cloud or Tifa are just terrible cover hogs that snore so loudly that laying next to them is just out of the question. :monster:

@megas_sephiroth

The cot isn't indicative of Cloud always sleeping there. Look at Case of Tifa as well. Households can have guest bedrooms, futons, couches or beds in the office, yet the person still sleeps in the *bedroom* with his partner. Furthermore, when they first moved in, the cot could've been there already or been supplied for nights when Cloud comes in from a job late at night and doesn't want to wake up and disturb everyone else in the house. Just because a bed is there doesn't mean its slept in every night. Context and the nature of the household is also an important factor.
 
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megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
True, not sleeping in the same bed at night doesn't mean they never "had some fun" (hint, hint) when the kids were out playing or something. Still I don't think they have a relationship that goes beyond a friendship, even if we consider one with benefits.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
So it's more likely they're just fucking each other for shit's and giggles, than them actually having an emotionally invested and intimate relationship, based on everything we've seen and heard from them and the creators?

A-are...are you kidding? We are speaking of Cloud and Tifa, right?
 

megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
No, gods, no. I didn't explain myself right. I meant to say, it may have happened at some point... With all of Cloud's issues, I just don't see him in any kind of continued relationship.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Okay then. But you don't think Cloud's ever going to get over those issues? Or that he has anything close to an emotional desire or need for companionship, especially considering those issues and feelings he had for the person he just so happens to be co-habitating with and raising a family with?
 

megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
I was watching ACC last night and I actually thought about that. I think at that point in time, with feeling gilty about what happened to Aerith and feeling somewhat unfit to help his family, Cloud wouldn't be able to have that kind of relationship with Tifa (or with anyone else, for that matter).

After ACC, I don't see why he can't move on, have a family and have a relationship with someone (be it Tifa or somebody else).
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Well there you go. That's the main theme and point. Their relationship hit a rough spot due to the ghosts of Cloud's past and his issues of guilt.

Case of Tifa shows how happy they are starting a family together but then the shadows of the past creep up on Cloud and Tifa and their relationship hits the snag, which is shown in ACC. The conflict is resolved, Cloud moves on, and thus Cloud returns home and their life/relationship is able to grow and continue.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
DC isn't Cloud and Tifa's story, and I don't see how they don't seem together, considering the context is them fighting together in a war against DG and there wouldn't be any time or place for them to do anything romantic.

Crisis Core Complete Guide said:
Cloud and Tifa

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.

Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.
 

megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
That's clear then. I don't picture them as a couple who believes in over the top public displays of affection, anyway. I see them more like a private kind of couple.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Yeah, the idea of Cloud and Tifa being more akin to fuck buddies is mind boggling. That's Yuffie's job, gosh darnit.

While it may be scandalous for unmarried couples to share a bed in the phillipines, in the cultures that FFs world seems to draw from most- Japanese and English/ American/etc., there's no particular stigma for them sleeping together. There'd actually likely be more visceral reaction to them raising kids as an unmarried couple than sharing a bed.

But anyways, as was said earlier, narrative fiction is generally based around assuming cultural norms and commonalities, and then deliberately noting an exception/ deviation from said norm. And even in said deviations there are also commonalities, such as the Uncle Ben white space used for Zack and Aerith.

In Japan, the presumption is for couples to sleep together, either on futons next to each other, or in beds- and since the FF7 world is a bed world, it makes sense C and T would have their own bed.

Taken out to the whole LTD, these commonalities explain pretty much the entire thing- The head game from disc one, the feints before the major disc one punch, the plot twist thereafter, even the viewing everything in light of the later revelation, the highwind scene, everything.

Which is one of the reasons the 'fairy tale love' thing makes so little sense, since aside from sharing a fantasy setting, FF7 has pretty much none of the fairie tale commonalities.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Yeah, both of them are described as shy and demure in terms of expressing their feelings and being in relationships. :monster:
 

paoo

♥
Seriously, why can't you believe that Cloud and Tifa have a relationship? :monster:
They are both trying to show their feelings in their... own little way. Because they are both shy, yes.
And what do you think the others in Edge(Midgar) think when they see Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel walking together on the street?
Well, I would think them as a woman and a man with their kids.
That's why I find it wrong to call them: "THEY R LIEK A SISTER AND BROTHER!!!11"
Because they both share feelings for eachother that is much more than just "friend-feelings" or "brother and sister-feelings".
And if Cloud would see Tifa as a "sister", then WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE STEAL HER PANTIES?!?!?! :rage:
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
And if Cloud would see Tifa as a "sister", then WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE STEAL HER PANTIES?!?!?! :rage:

Because he has a panty fetish, that's why. :monster: It matters not whether it be his sister, mother, Barret, or Vincent. He wants them panties.

That's clear then. I don't picture them as a couple who believes in over the top public displays of affection, anyway. I see them more like a private kind of couple.

I see them that way too. :monster: That's why Cloud was so ttly embarrassed when Tifa gave him THE LOOK. :awesome: In public. In front of many children.
 

megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
We just kind of stated we believe in a Cloud/Tifa relationship, just not at that particular point in time.

And, come on, what other people think when they see them on the street is not proof of anything going on between Cloud and Tifa.
 

megas_sephiroth

Pro Adventurer
And what do you think the others in Edge(Midgar) think when they see Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel walking together on the street?
Well, I would think them as a woman and a man with their kids.
That's why I find it wrong to call them: "THEY R LIEK A SISTER AND BROTHER!!!11"

:monster:
 
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