The First Epic LTD of TLS forums
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Madame Mayor
Banned
Off topic, looking at the CxA forums and seeing a bashing part makes me a bit sad. You'd never see a section like that in the CT forums...
It's sad, but at least it helps support the fact that CxA fans are afraid of the truth, therefore they lash out. They can't stand Tifa in any positive light because she's "in the way" or "stole" Cloud from Aerith. While that's not true because Cloud never had romantic feelings towards Aerith, it's all they have left to grasp onto now that Cloud and Tifa being together is official.
It's hard to tell for sure. Some people are naturally not good with logic, so showing these types of people their own contradictions doesn't really help because they just don't see it.
Plus, in their minds, this is still a war. What SE says isn't what's important, it's how the fans interpret it and use it as ammo. Hence why they will take a very straight forward sentence and twist it around until it's something they can use, and then they celebrate as if this is what the sentence is to be used for all along. Never mind the fact that if that was the intended meaning that it seems odd not to just say that... but... [/rant]
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Off topic, looking at the CxA forums and seeing a bashing part makes me a bit sad. You'd never see a section like that in the CT forums...
Liar, just because it's hiden it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
Just let them be, only the worse are the ones who post there anyway. If they want to bash, then let them bash because that shows exactly how mature they are, and how seriously they should be taken - like a 12 year old kid.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
OHLOL. TIFA, YOU EVIL WOMANHOW COULD YOU LOVE CLOUD, A MAN WHO'S SO DEVOTED TO YOU, BACK?!?! YOU WHORE!!!!!111
.....oh wait.
I find that ridiculous. Isn't Aerith more evil then, if she doesn't love Zack back when he practically killed himself and Cloud to get to Midgar to keep the promise of seeing her again?
Uhh... so who's devoted to who again?
This brings up a point I've made several times before. They refuse to think their arguments through the whole way. If Tifa is Evil for loving Cloud when Johnny has a crush he gave up on her, how the fuck vile is Cloud? They claim Cloud loves a dead girl despite Tifa living with him, after all.
It is.
Well, it really can't be help, can it?
I'm pretty sure that deep DEEP down they realize what they are saying contradicts their own Clerith! ideals.
Some do, some don't. I'm also not sure they all realize the gross double standards they're employing.
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I like Johnny
Tifa is such a cold-hearted bitch, through and through. Constantly through the compilation, we see her devoted to one man. It's just plain disrespectful!
ESPECIALLY SINCE NO-ONE GIVES A CRAP ABOUT JOHNNY.
They have hatelistings and stuff too. I mean... what the?
I wonder how long before I end up on one of their hate lists
Frostwave
lil' rice krispies
- AKA
- Elizabeth, Selda
I wonder how long before I end up on one of their hate lists
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes and 12 seconds. 
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Madame Mayor
Banned
I like Johnny
They have hatelistings and stuff too. I mean... what the?
I wonder how long before I end up on one of their hate lists
You mean hatelistings like the Cloti one, or actually lists of people they hate? Why am I even asking, without proof of the second I know it's got to exist somewhere...
Splintered
unsavory tart
Playing devil's advocate, I don't think CloudAerith arguments are delusional. I mean, I don't agree with them, but the fact SE makes the pairing so ambiguous and that Nomura is in love with the idea of letting fans interpret what they want from it means that fans can take and mold ideas from canon into what they believe is true.
I am under the firm belief that FFVII will never resolve the love triangle issue, for good reason. If I were in charge and had a staff employee suggested to make a canon pairing- I'd fire him on the spot. Not just out of general principle but because I wouldn't want someone that stupid working for me. FFVII even after all these years has held a good fanbase, a lot of it has to do with the continuing debates about the pairing.
SE will continue to throw bones to both sides to reel us fans in. Of course, some fans take the funny train to the wtf asylum but for the most part- they have legitimate points. Just ones that I find wrong.
As for hatelistings
Bashing is sort of like the godwin law. When you can't win, do that to hide the fail.
EDIT: On another note, I went to new post and entered the incest debate thread because it had a long title and I naturally assumed it was this thread. After the first two posts I was like, "Okay, when did this happen?" until I realized I was somewhere else.
I am under the firm belief that FFVII will never resolve the love triangle issue, for good reason. If I were in charge and had a staff employee suggested to make a canon pairing- I'd fire him on the spot. Not just out of general principle but because I wouldn't want someone that stupid working for me. FFVII even after all these years has held a good fanbase, a lot of it has to do with the continuing debates about the pairing.
SE will continue to throw bones to both sides to reel us fans in. Of course, some fans take the funny train to the wtf asylum but for the most part- they have legitimate points. Just ones that I find wrong.
As for hatelistings
Bashing is sort of like the godwin law. When you can't win, do that to hide the fail.
EDIT: On another note, I went to new post and entered the incest debate thread because it had a long title and I naturally assumed it was this thread. After the first two posts I was like, "Okay, when did this happen?" until I realized I was somewhere else.
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Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
I really... don't see the evidence as "ambiguous" at all. We've repeatedly asked CxA supporters for evidence that Cloud (rather than ZaCloud) is even remotely attracted to Aerith. We have yet to be presented with any; simply evasions and misdirections.
Splintered
unsavory tart
You means besides the *potential romantic context in ffvii where numerous choices seemed extremely flirty and SE's consistent remarks of a love triangle, and not CloudTifa and other girl (or viceversa CloudAerith and other girl). Cait Sith's "you guys are a perfect match!" was not just done for the shits and giggles. It was meant to cement the potential of a romantic relationship, which made it more cruel when Aerith was killed.
I honestly have little interest in defending CloudAerith, as I'm hardcore ZackAerith and like CloudTifa. I just don't find CloudAerith out of the realm of possibility.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes and 12 seconds.
Lies. I've never been mentioned there. To my knowledge anyway.
So anyway what's going on in this thread? More spiraling down away from actual discussion?
Sith's, "You guys are a perfect match," doesn't mean shit because turned out to be a complete fake working for Shinra. I don't think any of us deny the fact that there was a growing bond between Cloud and Aerith, and maybe even romantically so, if people wish to view it as so - but in the end, it doesn't matter. Why? Because he wasn't himself. He was a fake, a complete fake.
No, he wasn't Cloud.
No, he wasn't Cloud.
wut.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
Except that it's canonically established in Ultimanias and elsewhere that every one of those choices is made by Jenova's influence and has nothing to do with Cloud's actual feelings.
Splintered
unsavory tart
Which is something I'd actually argue for as well
Although that would also mean that all his interactions were Jenova, and I just don't think that's the case. He was influenced but I think there was still him and that his feelings towards Aerith, romantic or platonic, were intense and genuine. He cherished her, hell everyone cherished her.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
Of course he cherished her. But there's a difference between cherishing someone and having romantic affection for them. The Ultimania pretty clearly states that Cloud isn't himself on the first disc, so using those actions as "proof" of Cloud's actual feelings is highly misleading. His flirtatious responses to Aerith aren't Cloud at all; they're a result of Zack's influence over his personality, another factor noted in the Ultimania. There aren't any actions of independent Cloud that have been yet cited as proof that his feelings for Aerith are anything more than platonic.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
Well mostly it's Jenova wanting to gain Aerith's trust so she can then use her influence over ZaCloud to kill Aerith Obviously that doesn't work and she has to do it herself (as "Sephiroth") instead. But yeah, there's moar evidence for JenovaxAerith than CloudxAerith
Obviously that doesn't work and she has to do it herself (as "Sephiroth") instead. But yeah, there's moar evidence for JenovaxAerith than CloudxAerith
Splintered
unsavory tart
Agreed. And this is where the ambiguity kicks in. We don't know how much is Cloud, how much is him being royally fucked in the head. My arguement is as follows: it isn't a huge stretch to believe that the affection was romantic, therefore CloudAerith fans aren't delusional. I just happen to disagree with them.
Maybe it's just I do find it kind of unsettling that there are no CloudAerith's in sight in this thread. I'm use to having an entourage of rebuttals by now.
OMG Jenova X Aerith
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I don't know why I'm bothering to post this but.. what the hell?
My main problem with the ZaCloud argument is I don't think it should be used to prove Cloud didn't love Aerith romantically. NOW BEFORE YOU JUMP DOWN MY THROAT WITH THE ULTIMANIA READ WHY!
First off, I don't think any proof has come up either way to say ZaCloud DID love Aerith romantically except the date which is optional, but if anyone does bring up an argument to say he did, some would say it didn't matter because it was ZaCloud. But they'll say he loved her as a friend but isn't that too under Jenova's influence.
If that's the case, isn't it safe to assume that he has no feelings for Aerith whatsoever?
My main problem with the ZaCloud argument is I don't think it should be used to prove Cloud didn't love Aerith romantically. NOW BEFORE YOU JUMP DOWN MY THROAT WITH THE ULTIMANIA READ WHY!
First off, I don't think any proof has come up either way to say ZaCloud DID love Aerith romantically except the date which is optional, but if anyone does bring up an argument to say he did, some would say it didn't matter because it was ZaCloud. But they'll say he loved her as a friend but isn't that too under Jenova's influence.
If that's the case, isn't it safe to assume that he has no feelings for Aerith whatsoever?
Well I just threw one atcha so go go go
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
Technically one could say that there's no proof some of the actions couldn't be the real Cloud, but given the statements of the Ultimania it would be incumbent upon those who want to argue CxA as canon to demonstrate that a specific action allegedly demonstrating romantic affection is what the real Cloud would actually do in the same situation. Thus far, I have yet to see this demonstrated.
And Cloud's actions after freeing himself of Jenova's influence do clearly demonstrate that he cared about her as a friend.
And Cloud's actions after freeing himself of Jenova's influence do clearly demonstrate that he cared about her as a friend.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
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- Tim, Ryu
The basic idea isn't delusional, but the arguments, the romanticum post mortum and spirit sex and all the other nonsense, and insisting there's nothing romantic at all between Cloud and Tifa IS Delusional.
Disc 1's ending says otherwise. The death of one member of a love triangle has been classicly the way to end it, especially in japanese lit. There's a hilarious bit in Negima where, upon realizing she has feelings for the same guy her best friend does, a literati fakes her own death planning to live in the wilderness (below the school library, don't ask) so the 'death' aspect can be satisfied and her friend can have the guy sans guilt.
Hardly. The LTD is a molehill we enjoy making a mountain of. If I told you IN ANY OTHER SITUATION that there was a love triangle, one of the members died, and the other two moved in and raised kids together, NO ONE would call that an ACTIVE triangle. It's Absurd that the FF7 LT is considered up in the air.
'Bones', such as? And how do the C/A bones in any way equate to the metaphorical skull throne that C/T has assembled.
Which is something I'd actually argue for as well
Exactly. EVERYONE cherished her. So where's the 'special' from Cloud? Where's the goddamn romance?
And Cloud definitely remembers everything on disc 1, but in control of his actions he is not.
Dashell
SMILE!
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- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
...
Not sure what you mean but, I don't think anything ZaCloud did should be used to prove CxA either tbh.
Can't argue with that.
Actually I do have another problem with the ZaCloud argument. People who say he became Zack... after seeing some Crisis Core... Cloud isn't acting at all like Zack. He's... pretty much a big jerk. Zack wasn't like that. I know Jenova and Zack both had "influence" over Cloud but I hate it when people say he became Zack. That has nothing to do with the love triangle I'm just throwing it out there.
Splintered
unsavory tart
I don't understand where the spirit sexks arguement came from. Loving someone even after death is not a new concept in literature or games. Ashe loved Rassler, Vincent loved Lucrecia (though her situation is more complex than just simple dying), Laguna probably still loves Ellone, and Yuna loved Tidus (ignoring X-2 because ugh). It's just a matter of opinion on whether or not Cloud falls into this category or not. I never thought the arguement was that he would somehow find her dead body for some hot necrophilia action.
All of the first part of the game. Cloud had a special relationship with her different from the rest . It's the same way with Zack, both Cloud and Aerith cherished him. That doesn't mean that because they both cherish him, they are both either in love with him or not.
Aerith was clearly a romantic interest in the game, she died a romantic interest. Cloud somehow turned into Squall after the ending of the game and we have little insight to his true inner thoughts, so where he stands is up to debate.
As a CloudTifa, I honestly think he moved on. Some people think he didn't. That's fine too.
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