The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Hinata Hyuga]

I don't think she woulda put "XD" if she thought you were 100% serious.

......Uh, I should just let her respond herself.

 

[Vendel]

I was going to go on this long rant about what the CIC group has to de-emphasize or ignore to make their OTP able to stand out. But I don't have the strength ATM. So I had another idea.

Now thoughts from Cloud's perspective are few and far between when it comes to this whole LT nonsense. But one thing that stuck out for me tonight. The ending of ACC.

First you have the hill where Zack died and where the sword used to be. Now we see flowers. And we have two reasons the flowers could be there. Aerith magically grew them (I do like this theory) or Cloud placed them there. Now I'm not like the pinker side where flowers automatically=Aerith. But in this case I think they do.

So either we have very Zerith implications (magical growth) OR we have Cloud making a Zerith implication. Further reinforced by Cloud placing Zack's sword in Aerith's church.

This is Cloud saying "these two are together". They are linked together twice in a matter of seconds. It makes no sense if Cloud is just making it easier for him to honor them. Why place them together like that? Isn't Aerith living inside Cloud? So why would he pull an ass move like placing his friends sword in the church of his Ex who is currently leeching on Cloud while leaving him to diffuse in the LS?

"Hey Zack the girl who you died trying to meet while protecting my life. Well you can watch while we spirit sex it up sucker. Oh yeah I'll move your sword to her church just to rub salt in the wound".

No I don't think so. There would be no need for the flowers or the moved sword if they were not linked. Cloud saw them leave together in AC. He is honoring them as a couple. That is Clouds POV. It is Zerith. Hell maybe he is wrong. But from his POV Z/A are together in the goo.

This along with more of Cloud being part of his family by showing Denzel the spot where "a hero began his journey".


Cloud with his family honoring Z/A. How completely fucking logical.



EDIT: Hopefully this was coherent. I worked 10 hours tonight and I'm tired as fuck.

 

[Raquelborn]

I don't know if Cloud is honoring "Zerith", but he's certainly honoring them as individuals, and at the same time placing them together as two dearly loved ones (to him).

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Yeah. I'm not sure of whether Cloud meant exactly that or not, but SE is definitely nodding at it.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I don't know if Cloud is honoring "Zerith", but he's certainly honoring them as individuals, and at the same time placing them together as two dearly loved ones (to him).

Which is pretty much also like honoring Zerith in a way.

Besides, I like the idea. It's kinda cute~

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I would like to know if Cloud transferred the flowers to Zack's sword, or if the flowers grew there on their own. It'd help my brain with whether the lifestream or what have you is doing it or if it's Cloud.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I kinda thought it was the Lifestream and whatnot. It kind of fits with the flowery Midgar image of 500 years later.

I can't imagine Cloud planting flowers, really.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Tifa's complicated feelings aside, the memory line is one specifically tied to Sephiroth and Cloud's failures in the past. Thematically, logically, anything else ending in -ly...

Tifa isn't telling him to choose between her and Aeris.
Right after that, Cloud says something like "But I let her die" and then asks if sins are forgiven, both of which refer to his failure to help people. He tells Tifa he's not fit to save anyone. THAT'S his problem.

Can't just divorce things from context.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The complicated feelings in AC aren't jealously insomuch as she hates that Cloud is beating himself up about Aerith and feels he needs to stop, but at the same time she feels much the same about Aerith herself. Similarly, she hates that Aerith might be causing Cloud to self destruct, when she herself was quite close with Aerith.

 

[Vendel]

I don't know if Cloud is honoring "Zerith", but he's certainly honoring them as individuals, and at the same time placing them together as two dearly loved ones (to him).

No. For that to be the case you would have to ignore the fact that Cloud knows their history together. Also ignore the fact that he saw them leave together. He is not honoring them as individuals. And just so happens to put the memorials together. We have two separate places where the Z/A connection is made.

And if you want to look at it from a rabid pinker POV. Why would he need to honor Aerith in any way? She lives on inside him remember? So by the flowers on Zacks hill and his sword in her church are for Cloud and Aerith to remember Zack together? Rather than Cloud placing Z/A together?

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

And if you want to look at it from a rabid pinker POV. Why would he need to honor Aerith in any way? She lives on inside him remember?

Yeah, for those who believe that Aerith takes up permanent residence inside of Cloud's body after she dies, that's something that doesn't add up to their theory(nothing does though, of course).

Why would you make a memorial to someone who is still such a real presence in your life as Aerith would be if she was in constant contact with Cloud, even physically like they claim she is?

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Vendel]

Yeah, for those who believe that Aerith takes up permanent residence inside of Cloud's body after she dies, that's something that doesn't add up to their theory(nothing does though, of course).

Why would you make a memorial to someone who is still such a real presence in your life as Aerith would be if she was in constant contact with Cloud, even physically like they claim she is?

That doesn't make any sense.

So he has some place to take his collage roommates to remember her?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

His soul shall laud and magnify Her holy name

And just so happens to put the memorials together

Maybe Cloud is just lazy and doesn't want to visit two separate places, Vendel, so he dumps the remains of his friends at same place. Don't people do that all the time? Don't jump to conclusions

 

[Ryushikaze]

His soul shall laud and magnify Her holy name


Maybe Cloud is just lazy and doesn't want to visit two separate places, Vendel, so he dumps the remains of his friends at same place. Don't people do that all the time? Don't jump to conclusions

Then why visit the OTHER memorial, at the hill, after going to all the effort of combining the other one.

 

[Raquelborn]

No. For that to be the case you would have to ignore the fact that Cloud knows their history together. Also ignore the fact that he saw them leave together.

That still doesn't mean he's honoring them being back together, or the romantic relationship they once had.

He is not honoring them as individuals. And just so happens to put the memorials together. We have two separate places where the Z/A connection is made.

Zack is the best friend and Aerith is the dear friend, both of whom died at seperate times and for different reasons in relation to Cloud. They both helped him overcome his guilt and then wished him a good farewell (or something like that) at the end of AC/C.

Now, what I'm basically trying to point out is that they are individuals to him, but in AC/C they have very similar roles. Therefore it makes sense to have them go off together and so forth. For example, it would be silly if they had Aerith walk off and then have Zack appear and wave goodbye.

Their relationship is interesting and all, and I did personally see Zack's sword being placed Aerith's church as a bit of a Zerith tribute, but other than that nothing in AC/C is about the Zerith romance, it's all about what they meant to him as separate individuals.

And if you want to look at it from a rabid pinker POV. Why would he need to honor Aerith in any way? She lives on inside him remember?

I'm not a "rabid pinker".

So by the flowers on Zacks hill and his sword in her church are for Cloud and Aerith to remember Zack together? Rather than Cloud placing Z/A together?

If you change that to "...for Cloud to remember Zack and Aerith together? Rather than Cloud placing Z/A together?" then yes, that doesn't seem at all far-fetched to me.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If you change that to "...for Cloud to remember Zack and Aerith together? Rather than Cloud placing Z/A together?" then yes, that doesn't seem at all far-fetched to me.

I just seems odd to me, because he still visits Zack's grave, (Like when he brought Denzel with him at the end of the film) but he doesn't seem to visit Aerith's grave. Why would he want to move Zack's sword to her church if he still seems to acknowledge them separately?

 

[Raquelborn]

I just seems odd to me, because he still visits Zack's grave, (Like when he brought Denzel with him at the end of the film) but he doesn't seem to visit Aerith's grave. Why would he want to move Zack's sword to her church if he still seems to acknowledge them separately?

They are individuals to him, just as Denzel are Marlene are, but since they are similar in their significance to him and have similar roles why would it be strange to honor them both together (with this sort of shrine he sets up)?

I'm not saying Cloud doesn't think they were romantically involved but his actions aren't going to be solely motivated by the belief that such a relationship still exists/ever existed. Afterall, the Zerith romance is pretty insignificant and irrelevant to AC/Cs story.

 

[Frostwave]

Quick question doods: 'Member when Sephiroth taunts Cloud with the "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away", and Aerith, Zack, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel flash through his brain?

Was there a difference in the order they all appeared from AC to ACC? I seem to recall a difference, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

Anybody wanna clear it up for me?

 

[Isabella]

I think they moved Zack to the end IIRC, to better transition to his appearance I'd imagine. I don't think I paid attention to the rest of them.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

They are individuals to him, just as Denzel are Marlene are, but since they are similar in their significance to him and have similar roles why would it be strange to honor them both together (with this sort of shrine he sets up)?

I'm not saying Cloud doesn't think they were romantically involved but his actions aren't going to be solely motivated by the belief that such a relationship still exists/ever existed. Afterall, the Zerith romance is pretty insignificant and irrelevant to AC/Cs story.

But the thing is that it's shown he seems to honor Zack out by his grave (as shown by the end of ACC), which seems to show he doesn't honor them in the same area. Which seems really, really odd to me.

 

[Isabella]

Maybe it's because I'm rabid and frothing at the mouth, but it makes sense to me that Cloud moving Zack's sword to the church is a nod to their connection to each other. Not that he thinks they're making lifestream babies, because that would be stupid. I tried to put myself in Cloud's shoes, and I think I would do something similar as a way of saying, "yeah, they're together now, wherever they are."

I've seen it come up before, can't remember where, that some Cleriths see the sword as representing Cloud, because he once used the sword himself. But if that were the case, why did he plant the sword where Zack died and get his own? He definitely connects Buster with Zack. And as Nin mentioned, he still recognizes the hill as a monument of sorts to where Zack died. So why not leave the sword at that monument if it's solely to recognize Zack separately? Why did he polish it and put it in Aerith's church surrounded by her flowers?

 

[Frostwave]

I think they moved Zack to the end IIRC, to better transition to his appearance I'd imagine. I don't think I paid attention to the rest of them.

Thanks. That sparked my memory.

In AC, the order was Cloud taking Aerith's hand, Aerith praying seconds before she dies, Zack shortly before he dies, Aerith's reflection in Cloud's eye as she reaches for his hand, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, then the three together.

In ACC, it's Aerith praying mixed with a quick flash of the shot of her reflected in Cloud's eye as she reaches for his hand, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, Zack. There is no longer a flash of Tifa, Marlene and Denzel together(obviously because it wasn't needed).

I was just thinking of that (rabid)Clerith argument that the flashes show the order of who Cloud cherishes, from most to least. Which was always complete nonsense, but now even more obviously so, unless SE now wants us to believe that Cloud numbers his precious people differently.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I was just thinking of that (rabid)Clerith argument that the flashes show the order of who Cloud cherishes, from most to least. Which was always complete nonsense, but now even more obviously so, unless SE now wants us to believe that Cloud numbers his precious people differently.

He hates Denzel? Aw, I'm sad now. He could have fooled me with the whole looking for a cure for his and Denzel's Geostigma.

 

[Frostwave]

And the rest of the party? They didn't even make Cloud's list.

Shit's gotta hurt.

 

[null.]

Tifa's complicated feelings aside, the memory line is one specifically tied to Sephiroth and Cloud's failures in the past. Thematically, logically, anything else ending in -ly...

I respectful-ly disagree.