The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Vendel]

I'm not a "rabid pinker".

I never said you were. I was making overall points about the scene.

as a way of saying, "yeah, they're together now, wherever they are."

Exactly. The scene makes no sense whatsoever if you look at it from the Pinker POV. So from this small scene we get a fairly good idea of what is in Cloud's mind. And it's not "flower fields and spirit sex".

 

[Eerie]

For the Buster Sword in Aerith's church, I thought that since the Buster sword represented Zack, Cloud put it there to represent that he finally reached Aerith and that they were finally reunited.

Because:
- Zack died while trying to reach Aerith
- Cloud knew they were dating
- he heard/saw them together twice, once in the Lifestream, once in the church, going back in the green goo

So that's simply the most logical answer. Of course they're both precious friends to him, but there would be no need to put Zack's sword in the flower bed if they weren't connected. So, that's how I feel while looking at this - very pretty - pic.

 

[I Am Not Me]

In ACC, it's Aerith praying mixed with a quick flash of the shot of her reflected in Cloud's eye as she reaches for his hand, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, Zack. There is no longer a flash of Tifa, Marlene and Denzel together(obviously because it wasn't needed).

I know you're all thinking it, and are just afraid to say it. So I'll post it for everyone.

Let us recall what Sephiroth says that triggers this scene:
"Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away"

From this alone, we can conclude that the order of appearances is made to be in ascending order. Meaning, least to greatest. This would basically mean that the first to appear is the one Cloud dislikes most, and the last is the one Cloud likes best/is in love with. It's simply just the "save the best for last" universal law.

First, we have Aerith appearing. She not only flashes once, but twice. There is a reason for this. Aerith appears twice to emphasize Cloud's dislike for her. Among all of these people, Aerith is the least he cherishes.

Don't ask me how this bodes for the rest of the AVALANCHE members who are not even on the list.

Next, we have Tifa. She's just a girl Cloud is living with. He stays with her for food, shelter, and laundry. She is liked more than Aerith, if only for packing Cloud's lunches and keeping his underwear clean.

Next, we have Marlene. She's in the middle of the list, which means Cloud is neutral about her. He probably would've liked her better if she didn't look like Aerith with that ribbon in her hair.

Second to the last is Denzel. Clearly, Cloud likes him. After minutes of finding the kid, he holds his hand. He also parallels Denzel to the person he likes the most, which can be seen in the scenes before the Bahamut fight.

The last to be shown is Zack, and he's not just flashed. He has heavier emphasis than Cloud's dislike for Aerith. His appearance has more weight in this whole scene, as he also appears back-to-back with Cloud, giving him the strength to fight again. It's clear that Cloud cherishes him the most, and quite possibly, he's also in love with him.


Simply put: Barret & co. < Aerith < Tifa < Marlene < Denzel < Zack

You people should learn to accept the cold, hard truth. It can't get any more clearer than this. Clack is the intended pairing of FFVII.

 

[Raquelborn]

But the thing is that it's shown he seems to honor Zack out by his grave (as shown by the end of ACC), which seems to show he doesn't honor them in the same area. Which seems really, really odd to me.

Hmmm.

Maybe it's because I'm rabid and frothing at the mouth, but it makes sense to me that Cloud moving Zack's sword to the church is a nod to their connection to each other. Not that he thinks they're making lifestream babies, because that would be stupid. I tried to put myself in Cloud's shoes, and I think I would do something similar as a way of saying, "yeah, they're together now, wherever they are."

I agree with all of this, especially the bits in bold. It's not necessarily about "Zerith" romance though, unless I've misunderstood what mashing together two characters' names means.

I've seen it come up before, can't remember where, that some Cleriths see the sword as representing Cloud, because he once used the sword himself. But if that were the case, why did he plant the sword where Zack died and get his own? He definitely connects Buster with Zack. And as Nin mentioned, he still recognizes the hill as a monument of sorts to where Zack died. So why not leave the sword at that monument if it's solely to recognize Zack separately? Why did he polish it and put it in Aerith's church surrounded by her flowers?

Like I said, it seemed pretty Zerithy to me, but I don't think that's all it's about.

Ps. I didn't even notice he polished it, how nice.

Thanks. That sparked my memory.

In AC, the order was Cloud taking Aerith's hand, Aerith praying seconds before she dies, Zack shortly before he dies, Aerith's reflection in Cloud's eye as she reaches for his hand, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, then the three together.

In ACC, it's Aerith praying mixed with a quick flash of the shot of her reflected in Cloud's eye as she reaches for his hand, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, Zack. There is no longer a flash of Tifa, Marlene and Denzel together(obviously because it wasn't needed).

I was just thinking of that (rabid)Clerith argument that the flashes show the order of who Cloud cherishes, from most to least. Which was always complete nonsense, but now even more obviously so, unless SE now wants us to believe that Cloud numbers his precious people differently.

I don't know about order, but Aerith does appear more times, especially in AC. So I can see their point regarding that.

The last shot is the one that gets the most emphasis though, hence why Zack was shown last in ACC just before he has a chat with Cloud. Arguably, that's also why Tifa and the children appear last in AC.

I know you're all thinking it, and are just afraid to say it. So I'll post it for everyone.

Let us recall what Sephiroth says that triggers this scene:
"Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away"

Thanks for isolating that line, the bit in bold better explains why Aerith appears first and possibly also why she appears more than the others. She was taken away so she's the first one he thinks about, and then it's Zack (who wasn't taken away from him so to speak, but died trying to protect him). Tifa and the children appear after that because they haven't been taken away yet, but he's afraid they will be.

 

[Vendel]

Simply put: Barret & co. < Aerith < Tifa < Marlene < Denzel < Zack

Spoken like a true rapid Clacker.


One thing that I found tonight that bothers me. When Case of Barret is brought up the pinkers always focus on Cid saying "so Cloud is with Tifa". They then go on about locations etc etc. But you rarely see them bring up what I feel is the most significant line

Spoiler

*Highlighted for emphasis

Now taken by itself the line they highlight and continue to bring up could mean just location or just business dealings. But when taken with the rest of the conversation when Cid mentions Tifa wearing the pants the two lines are connected. The line itself really only means one thing.

Taken as a whole Cid and Barret were not just talking about locations. (nor was one of the creators when he stated Cloud and Tifa would be together)

The only interpretation for this scene is Cid assuming C/T are in a relationship. Then Barret giving details and Cid accepting and making an observation on it. I guess they are rapid CloTi as well. Because without seeing Cloud and Tifa having sex or the like I don't know how either one of them could accept that.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I just want to point out that Mei-bito's post made more rational, logical sense than many of the other arguments--about ANY pairing--that I've seen.

<3

 

[Madame Mayor]

I find it funny the kind of things Clerith feel is "proof" of their pairing. Like their long essays about how Yuna and Tidus' story matches Clerith somehow and therefore that's suppose to convince someone that Cloud and Aerith are a couple?

With this in mind I made a funny observation about the game Infinite Undiscovery (SE RPG for the 360). I'll keep it in spoiler tags in case anyone is still planning on playing it... (I think I might have posted this before, but it was months ago and there's lots of new people in this thread). Basically, the game has some interesting similarities with FFVII.

Spoiler

So you have your main character Capell who is special from the main population because he is Unblessed. It means he can't do magic.

Aya is the first girl you meet and it's obvious from a bit after the start that she develops feelings for Capell. She gets jealous at the girls who are all over him throughout the game.

There's even a running joke where girls keep saying, "I'll do anything for you Capell" and he replies, "Anything?" and Aya smacks him. XP

Faina and Leif are brother and sister, and they are like Capell, no magic. Faina develops feelings for Capell right away and he flirts back a tiny bit too. Aya gets jealous when she sees this because she can see the "special connection" these two have that she could never understand. (Starting to see where I'm going with this...?)

These monsters come attack that non-magic people can see but can't fight, and magic people can't see but can fight. Stupid, I know. Anyways, this scene happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdgnjUU6668

It's long so basically Faina is killed right in front of him, confesses her love right before she dies, and Capell goes nuts afterwards with thoughts of revenge. He brings up her and her brother at every opportunity about how they must fight for them, etc. But even with all of this, even though she loved him very much, and they had their connection, he wasn't in love with her.

Imagine, a character who's angry at the death of a girl who obviously loved him and wants to get revenge but he's not in love with her...

Before the last battle, Aya and Capell go off alone together and this scene occurs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RShXg3_YPuI

Similarities with the highwind scene:
Final day before the last battle
Two characters reveal feelings about the current situation they are in
Girl says a line that suggests she wants to express her love physically... "Even I don't understand my own feelings, so why don't you let me figure them out." *smile*
Guy says nothing after this
Fade to black
Next day girl is a bit embarrassed around their friends

Capell says a couple other lines for those who didn't get the hint like, "It feels great now that all that pent up energy is gone." XP

So no, this doesn't prove Cloti in any way, shape or form. It's a different game that just happens to have scenes and character relationships that mirror what happens in FFVII.

However, I do find them interesting examples. Like, an example of a guy wanting to fight for a dead girl he's not in love with, or fading to black when a suggestive line has just been said implying something sexual happens.

(Considering the Clerii will go on and on about how the first shows true love and the second doesn't have any romantic implications at all. According to their logic, Capell pulls a "...", so he's totally rejecting Aya... )

 

[Fairheartstrife]

The bow chicka bow wow made that for me. **dies**

 

[namakemono]

Someone can delete my post if it's spammy. But I just can't help but feel astounded how this thread's name evolved.

 

[Madame Mayor]

The bow chicka bow wow made that for me. **dies**

That made me giggle too.

Someone can delete my post if it's spammy. But I just can't help but feel astounded how this thread's name evolved.

When I came back after a few months I had trouble finding it again.

 

[Celes Chere]

I find it funny the kind of things Clerith feel is "proof" of their pairing. Like their long essays about how Yuna and Tidus' story matches Clerith somehow and therefore that's suppose to convince someone that Cloud and Aerith are a couple?

Lol, to be honest I don't really see how Tidus and Yuna are a parallel to Cloud and Aerith. It's really nothing like Clerith at all, besides that whole love after death thing. Which Zack and Aerith very well have, as many other pairings in many games including FF have. That's really the only similarity I see. Tidus is nothing like Cloud, and Yuna is nothing like Aerith personality wise. . . and their story is not even close. Do you know where these essays are? Because I want to see how these two somehow relate to Clerith. O_o I'd say SquallxRinoa is closer.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Lol, to be honest I don't really see how Tidus and Yuna are a parallel to Cloud and Aerith. It's really nothing like Clerith at all, besides that whole love after death thing. Which Zack and Aerith very well have, as many other pairings in many games including FF have. That's really the only similarity I see. Tidus is nothing like Cloud, and Yuna is nothing like Aerith personality wise. . . and their story is not even close. Do you know where these essays are? Because I want to see how these two somehow relate to Clerith. O_o I'd say SquallxRinoa is closer.

DON'T YOU SEE? AERITH=TIDUS AND CLOUD=YUNA! Yuna never gave up on her dead lover, and neither does Cloud! Yuna made out with her dead lover and declared her love for him and so did Cloud! (...wait...) Yuna ran off with three of her friends to revive her lover and so did Cloud! (...this is getting really weird...) Yuna was forcefully engaged to two men prior and so was Cloud! (...okay, now I'm just being stupid. )

 

[Celes Chere]

Oh, I see it now.

 

[paoo]

Isn't there any FF pairing that is like Cloti then?

 

[Strangelove]

Isn't there any FF pairing that is like Cloti then?

If not, surely that would be a good thing.

But silly me. Here I was thinking doing something different was a positive trait for a writer rather than the same thing over and over.

I could never tell if this whole 'compare how exactly alike C/A are to other couples' thing was meant in praise or as an insult to the creators.

 

[Celes Chere]

I think there are a lot of pairings outside of FF that are like Cloti (Which of course, means lustful hawt pairings full of smex ). . . O_O I can see some similarities in Vanelo and LockeCeles though.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Isn't there any FF pairing that is like Cloti then?

Cecil and Rosa. Also Steiner and Beatrix and Wakka and Lulu.
Definitely Van and Penelo, too.

All got their own unique bits, both those are the ones I'd say are closest.

 

[Celes Chere]

Cecil and Rosa.

Oh yeah! How could I forget about them?

But could you explain the Steiner and Beatrix one? O_O

 

[Ryushikaze]

The whole 'DORK/ accomplished lady admitting their feelings for each other' aspect. Especially their scene together near the end reminded me of the Highwind scene.

 

[Raquelborn]

Where exactly is it said that Uematsu composed Cloud Smiles around the smile to Tifa?

 

[Frostwave]

I think it's the Making Of for Advent Children.

 

[Strangelove]

Yeah, in the making of feature for the original AC (Distance).

 

[Vendel]

From the making of AC thingy.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Do you know where these essays are? Because I want to see how these two somehow relate to Clerith. O_o I'd say SquallxRinoa is closer.

Where do you think? XP

This is the TidusxYuna one:
http://www.clerith.com/More FF Parallels.htm

And here's one about other FFs:
http://www.clerith.com/FFParallels.htm

It’s easy to dispute evidence within the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, as to which pairing is more supported and which evidence is more valid, and so forth. However, what cannot be disputed is the pattern of romance Square-Enix has set down within the Final Fantasy series.

No, it's easy to dispute Clerith evidence because none of it makes any sense.

 

[Vendel]

No, it's easy to dispute Clerith evidence because none of it makes any sense.

Clerith evidence? Ignore what you can and twist what you can't ignore. And the beloved making shit up.

Not exactly evidence.

And if you want to see a couple rapid Clotis pwn a youtard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZErbAvVdk

Last time I checked, children don't call their parents by their first names, like Marlene and Denzel refer to Cloud.&#65279;

Perhaps Tifa considers them their children, but Cloud shows absolutely no affection to them whatsoever, other than that he felt an obligation to save them from Kadaj and find a way to cure geostigma.

Seriously. If you don't think this is something up for debate, then GTFO this discussion. You're not really offering anything useful anyway.