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juniper

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I was kind of confused as to what Cloud is talking about in Tactics. I know it's not exactly relevamt, but was he talking about looking for Aerith, his sanity, or his sword? :/

Summoned young man: My....name's Cloud. yes...Cloud.

Ramza: I'm Ramza. They're my friends....

Cloud: I don't care about names. What I need is a battlefield. Yeah...that's it...I'm a member of SOLDIER.

Mustadio: What a jerk!

[A strange sound starts to ring in Cloud's head.]

Cloud: What's this? My fingers are tingling... My eyes...they're burning... Stop...stop it.... phiros...

Mustadio: He's strange.

Cloud: I must go...must go to that place...

and then a little later:

Cloud: I lost...a very important thing...

Ramza: Cloud......?

Cloud: Ever since, I've been lost. Who am I? What should I do?
What about this pain...

Ramza: Cloud...there's someone in your world waiting for you.
We might be able to send you back where you came from by using
the stone's power.

Cloud: Let's go, Ramza. I can't be here. Must go...to the
Promised Land.

Uh, feel free to ignore this if I'm just being a retard.
 

Dawnbreaker

~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Alright, well what about FFVII, AC, and FFVII compilation in general? How is the promise baseless to you, and do you think the importance of other promises are relevent, or do they also mean nothing?

Just curious.
I only think that particular promise wasn't the sign of some sort of total devotion between Cloud and Tifa. It seemed like the first possible romantic interaction, but an incomplete and immature interest. Of course that might be as Mako said the "hello" of the conversation and all that.
What other promises are you referencing?
I just have to add this: Don't forget Zack.
It says "triangle". No fourth person. Not that I wouldn't talk about Zack, but that's why I didn't initially add his name.

Also, I can understand where you're coming from. I don't think anyone intended this to be a ranting forum/thread to be accurate, but none of the fun Cleriths seems to one to come here. I wonder why.

But Kudos and carry on.
As if Clerith's are the only ones able to rant or get too excited. Cloti's do it too. So does every single person who's into a pairing and cares more about proving their pairing correct than coming up with interesting and different ways of viewing things. I personally just enjoy debating the side that isn't being presented, whether it's the most valid one or not, simply because it's great for debate skills and often opens up thoughts that could be entirely ignored otherwise.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

You need to go by the "War of the Lions" translation. It'll make a lot more sense.

Young Man: What...is this place? Who...who am I? I remember being swallowed by
a current - a great stream, and then...

Besrudio: I recall reading of something like this in a volume long ago: a
transporter.

Mustadio: A transporter?

Besrudio: A device for teleportation across dimensions - across the very fabric
of time and space.

Ramza (approaching the man): Then, the man before us hails from a world beyond
our own?

Besrudio: Like as not. Behold his manner of dress.

Young Man: My name...is Cloud. Yes, that was it.

Ramza (walking towards Cloud): I am Ramza, of House Beoulve. That man over
there is-

Cloud (turning his back): I couldn't care less what your names are. What I need
is a battlefield. That's right. I was...I was a member of SOLDIER.

Mustadio: Has he no manners at all?

Cloud (dropping to his knees and grasping his head): Uhn...What is this...this
feeling in my fingertips? The heat! Inside my skull...No, stop...Sephiroth -
no!

It's a reference regarding when from FFVII Cloud was pulled. His lack of memory, identity, still claiming to be a SOLDIER 1st Class, and him saying he was swept up in a great current means Cloud was pulled into Ivalice during his stint in the Lifestream after he handed Sephiroth the Black Materia.

 

H

dead
AKA
Oryx, Debussy, Hatsumimi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Poor Dawn, lol.
I replied, realizing only belatedly, that she had been bombarded with posts.
*bows in apology* m(_ _)m

 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Vampire Hunter D link=topic=53.msg10085#msg10085 date=1232515838]
It says "triangle". No fourth person. Not that I wouldn't talk about Zack, but that's why I didn't initially add his name.[/quote]

That's fair. However, I wasn't trying to be nit-picky, I just happened to like Zack and felt the urge to say don't forget Zack. :monster: But either way, Cloud-Zack-Aerith, I'd still say don't forget Tifa. :monster:


As if Clerith's are the only ones able to rant or get too excited. Cloti's do it too. So does every single person who's into a pairing and cares more about proving their pairing correct than coming up with interesting and different ways of viewing things. I personally just enjoy debating the side that isn't being presented, whether it's the most valid one or not, simply because it's great for debate skills and often opens up thoughts that could be entirely ignored otherwise.

Y so srs? If my first reply wasn't clear enough, I was agreeing with you that the thread turned into a ranting or anti- thread sort of, but just that no one intended for it to be. FYI, I'm a Cloti and I've done my share of ranting. :monster: So I'm not sure what you're responding to about "As if Clerith's are the only ones able to rant or get too excited. Cloti's do it too."

And i thought you deserved some kudos even though I disagree with your position. :monster: But whatevs.
 

kelly20

Pro Adventurer
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Sorry to pop in, but I saw that cleris site.. the destiny one..(it was not intentional, lol) and somewhere it states that the Cleris pairing is the most popular pairing in Japan for ff7? :-\

I thought it was Cloti?! I go to so many forums and Cloti always wins by a landslide in polls.. well right now, I know it is Zerith (in Japan)..thats for sure, going by the fanart and stuff.. (do they deny that too?).. sigh

anyways, can anyone further elaborate/confirm

also, I have noticed anyone who doesn't care about the whole "shipping" fiasco automatically knows Cloud/Tifa are together
I went to see some FF7 Youtube videos and some people who dont like Cloti have not even played the game!! yes, they even write it..they argue "cloud doesn't love her!" wth?
I just don't get it..
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Kelly, when Destiny Fulfilled tells you something, even if it is "the sky is blue", double check.

That said, "Japan is X" has long been part of their propaganda campaign, though it's never really held up. In this case, it doesn't hold up because 'Cleris' isn't a paring name in Japan. CloAer is the name, and it's essentially mocked and derided.
 

Dawnbreaker

~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It's a reference regarding when from FFVII Cloud was pulled. His lack of memory, identity, still claiming to be a SOLDIER 1st Class, and him saying he was swept up in a great current means Cloud was pulled into Ivalice during his stint in the Lifestream after he handed Sephiroth the Black Materia.

That clarifies a lot, thank you.

Poor Dawn, lol.
I replied, realizing only belatedly, that she had been bombarded with posts.
*bows in apology* m(_ _)m

Gosh, don’t be. You’re entitled to present your opinion even if it’s in the vast majority. As long as you’re not just repeating what others are saying or being snide about it (neither of which you were) there’s nothing wrong with it.

That's fair. However, I wasn't trying to be nit-picky, I just happened to like Zack and felt the urge to say don't forget Zack. But either way, Cloud-Zack-Aerith, I'd still say don't forget Tifa.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I think Zack’s an important part of the equation. I just didn’t think of him as part of this particular equation.

Y so srs? If my first reply wasn't clear enough, I was agreeing with you that the thread turned into a ranting or anti- thread sort of, but just that no one intended for it to be. FYI, I'm a Cloti and I've done my share of ranting. So I'm not sure what you're responding to about "As if Clerith's are the only ones able to rant or get too excited. Cloti's do it too."

Sorry if my comment sounded harsh. I just personally dislike it when a thread is derailed into either general attacks on pairings or forums based on pairings, etc. My whole thought of this thread was to be something about bringing up possible theories as to why it could be Cleris or Cloti.

And i thought you deserved some kudos even though I disagree with your position. But whatevs.

Again, sorry. I realize my comments sounded harsh and not what I intended.

Sorry to pop in, but I saw that cleris site.. the destiny one..(it was not intentional, lol) and somewhere it states that the Cleris pairing is the most popular pairing in Japan for ff7?

I think the only one who could state such a thing, either for Cloti or Cleris, would have to be an official source of some sort. An unofficial source’s statement that’s not backed by official word is meaningless.

I thought it was Cloti?! I go to so many forums and Cloti always wins by a landslide in polls.. well right now, I know it is Zerith (in Japan)..thats for sure, going by the fanart and stuff.. (do they deny that too?).. sigh

No idea. I’d say they were fairly close though, and as a person who doesn’t have a personal agenda for either (well, mostly for the two to dump Cloud, lol) it seems I stumble upon a very close amount of people who prefer one over the other.

also, I have noticed anyone who doesn't care about the whole "shipping" fiasco automatically knows Cloud/Tifa are together
I went to see some FF7 Youtube videos and some people who dont like Cloti have not even played the game!! yes, they even write it..they argue "cloud doesn't love her!" wth?
I just don't get it..

To a point, I agree. Official word has been that Cloud and Tifa are together. To me, I’ve not seen enough in-game/in-movie evidence to prove this, but take that from someone who doesn’t play every compilation game nor read all the translations or book number 123654789 that SE is milking the game with. Not in any way am I saying that Cleris is the proper pairing; if there’s any on the basis of character development (not just SE saying “oh, btw, this is true, so there”) Tifa x Cloud is the most logical, even if, IMO, they have a long way to go.

 
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I didn't even know they lived together. That isn't clarified in AC.
Really? Because both Denzel and Marlene make comments wondering where he is and Cloud tells Denzel that he's going to come back to them when it's all over. Marlene asks about why Cloud left and if it's because of Geostigma when they find the bandage. The point of the movie is that Cloud has left them at the beginning, because then what is he doing? Why is Tifa looking for him and what's he running from?Also, you act like the books on FFVII are endless. They really aren't, and a lot of them repeat the same information. However, this isn't an ultimania we are talking about, it's the On The Way To A Smile books that are apart of the compilation (and these aren't guidebooks, these are novels, or more accurately, novellas).


I never got the impression it was short length of time, but then again AC wasn't clear in many respects to me.
Marlene, Denzel and even Tifa's reactions to Cloud's absence are enough to tell you it hasn't been long since he left, considering they aren't used to this by now.


Isn't ninety percent of game interpetation personal interpretation?
Well, interpretation is interpretation. Canon is something completely different.


I have distate for anyone who's entire point in a debate is kill the debate by saying they're entirely right simply because their view might present a slightly better stance on things.
Then what is a debate, if not to present facts and come up with the most logical conclusion based on the facts given. The only reason why myself and others feel confident in that this debate is over is because the other side fails to bring forth evidence to support it. If, new information was presented to make a valid case for the other side, then we'd have an alive debate again.



Cloud spends a bit more private and alone time with Aerith than he does Barrett or Yuffie. Not disputing a definite connection to Tifa at this point, but rather it does seem like an attraction of some sort developed off of the interaction of Aerith and Cloud.
I need you to elaborate not only on this extended "private time", but also on how this show Cloud's attraction or affection towards Aerith. As I've said, he's cold to her, doesn't understand her, can be mean to her, and seems disinterested. He does not want to go on the date. She, on her side, wants to put Zack behind her and trying to get to know the real Cloud she knows must be there somewhere, but doesn't know herself.[/]Tifa gets a date as well and is just as intimate as Aerith's, if not more so, because Cloud is actually interested in what she was trying to say.


I personally hate recantings of any sort. Writers should just work around mistakes not cover them up.
Why limit themselves though? Mistakes happen, Maiden for example. It was published, but SE has decided it isn't apart of the compilation anymore because it didn't agree with the information they wanted to present in DC and CC. Are you saying that rather than do this, they should have just delt with it and limited their own ideas about their own story based on one mistake? These are actual questions.
Just because affection is initially rebounding dosen't necessarily mean it can't develop into something seperate of its own. Though I will say that is exceedingly rare.[/]
However, read the quote again. It's not about Aerith's initial actions, or initial feelings, it's about her actions in FFVII. Unless specified otherwise, that means in the entire game, her actions towards Cloud are a result of her feelings for Zack. It's a bold thing for SE to way if they are also trying to imply romance between Cloud and Aerith.
 

H

dead
AKA
Oryx, Debussy, Hatsumimi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=kelly20 link=topic=53.msg10129#msg10129 date=1232526554]
Sorry to pop in, but I saw that cleris site.. the destiny one..(it was not intentional, lol) and somewhere it states that the Cleris pairing is the most popular pairing in Japan for ff7? :-\ [/quote]

It doesn't matter which couple is more popular. However, google Japan dictates:

cloudxaeris ????? ? 3,330 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.33 ?)
cloudxtifa ????? ? 11,700 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.17 ?)

zackxaeris ????? ? 141,000 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.20 ?)

Zeris are the winners :3


 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

w00t Zeris ftw!

No but seriously, I don't think the whole, "Well this many people from this country feel this way so it must be true," argument is a very plausible one. First off, where is the proof that all the people in said country actually feel this way? How do we know you aren't wrong/making things up?

Also, how do we know that the popular opinion in said country is even the right opinion? :/
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It isn't. Ever. Even when the right answer is the most popular, the most popular answer is not the right one, if you get my drift. Claiming otherwise is the appeal to popularity.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I bet Cloud and Sephiroth would beat all three and yeah...

That's REAL plausible and real.

Wait scratch that..maybe...that wasn't the best example. :monster:
 

H

dead
AKA
Oryx, Debussy, Hatsumimi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I just realized I google Japan'ed in English. The correct results would be:


Cloud/Aeris
????x???? ????? ? 23,100 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.29 ?)

Cloud/Tifa
????x???? ????? ? 60,500 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.27 ?)

Zack/Aeris
????x???? ????? ? 10,400 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.28 ?)

Cloud/Sephiroth
????x????? ????? ? 55,600 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.31 ?)

Maybe I can email this to Destiny Fulfilled. They need an update in statistics :3
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Lawl. Cloud ad Tifa beat out Sefiros and Clod too.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Wow...I stand corrected.

Talk about getting a "Final Heaven" to the face :monster:

Tifa: *grabs Cloud's balls* THIS IS MINE!! THIS IS WHERE MY BABIES COME FROM!!!!!!!

Sephiroth: W-whatever you say. It's not worth being a memory over...I'm out of here!!!! *flies away*

Cloud: @_____@
 

A

Great Old One
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There seems to be a hefty amount of Cloud / Tifa searches. Same goes for the English. :monster:

I wonder how many searches there are for Zack and Cloud... that's gotta be pretty popular too.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=butterflybookmark link=topic=53.msg10377#msg10377 date=1232582588]I wonder how many searches there are for Zack and Cloud... that's gotta be pretty popular too.
[/quote]

The most out of all of them, to be sure. :monster:
 

A

Great Old One
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It's the attack of the yaoi fangirls, naturally. :monster:
And I'm one of them. :monster:
 

Dawnbreaker

~The Other Side of Fear~
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I want to be arsed to actually reply to all the comments about the whole Aerith-Cloud-Tifa triangle but arsed meter is broken. I honestly don't care enough about the pairings to argue them beyond that. I will say a couple things though.

First, a pairings popularity is fairly irrelevant to the pairing's legitmacy or even logic. The fact that Cloud and Sephiroth even have a shipping proves that oftentimes pairings are done strictly for entertainment value and not any sort of canon or logic.

And tha fact that the Zaeris or whatever is called is the most popular right now is likely related to the fact that CC was released most recently of the compilation. Anything that's recent, and in the minds of gamers, etc. is likely the one with the highest hits, etc.

And a question put to me:

Why limit themselves though? Mistakes happen, Maiden for example. It was published, but SE has decided it isn't apart of the compilation anymore because it didn't agree with the information they wanted to present in DC and CC. Are you saying that rather than do this, they should have just delt with it and limited their own ideas about their own story based on one mistake? These are actual questions.

I have always disliked recantings. I feel a rencating is a writer's lazy way out. It also makes for very confused gamers, etc. Why should we put faith into anything that's being said by SE when they could alter whenever it suits them? It's like Dragonlance where they are constantly altering the beings within the world to seem stronger than each other and I literally got the point of saying "fuck it" because I could no longer believe a single thing that was ever said.

"This is the most powerful weapon...No, wait, THIS IS....No, wait again....THIS ONE IS! No wait, I swear, I won't change my mind..."

A small alteration such as the name of a restauarnt or the height of a character is inconsequential but anything affecting major storylines...yes, that pisses me off.
 

H

dead
AKA
Oryx, Debussy, Hatsumimi
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=53.msg10381#msg10381 date=1232583508]
I bet Clack is the most popular! :monster:
[/quote]

Cloud/Zack search renders me with a meager:

????x???? ????? ? 19,600 ?? 1 - 10 ?? (0.44 ?)

 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Re: Love Triangle Discussion

D, with regards to retcons, what is your opinion on doing them to FLUSH that sort of thing, to excise the sort of bullshit that cocked up the Dragonlance timeline.
And what about such things as when different authors take up their hand at a continuity and cock it up, like with SW and Karen Traviss?


On the subject of 'triangle', I've though for awhile that calling this a triangle is entirely a mistake. Not just because of Zack, but also because of Tseng. And thus also Elena.
Hmm.. a couple more points and we'll have the Ramna 1/2 love polyhedral on our hands.
 
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