The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Hinata Hyuga]

It kinda makes me wonder which came first: Do they hate Tifa because they hate Cloti, or do they hate Cloti because they hate Tifa? Chicken vs. egg thing.

They had to have hated Tifa first. There are barely any Cleriths(ones that believe that it has a basis in canon)that don't bash Tifa.

And it's a fact that most of the reasons they come up with for hating Cloti are Tifa's fault. Her failings. Cloud is most often portrayed as a victim.

So Tifa hate is the source of Cloti hate most often.

 

[Celes Chere]

I think what Tifa wears is kind of cami-like.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Ok, please don't bite my head off for this, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Tifa's clothes were designed to contrast with Aerith's, and the staff voted in favor of a mini skirt over (short?) pants. I will try to find the source, though I fear it might just be unsupported on Wiki. Was hoping one of you might have something more concrete on that.

Well, I thought Aerith thew herself at Cloud way more than Tifa did.

If only dressing revealingly (but not throwing yourself at a guy) is "slutty", then may I be excused for saying that being flirtatious is also "slutty"? After all, in the first case you're only dressed to look sexy; in the second case, you're advertising your "availability". For whatever.

In that case Aerith is "sluttier" than Tifa is.

Tifa holds thoughts of a guy in her head for years. The only thing he bothered to do, as far as she knew, was give her personal notice that he was leaving town. Did she guess why? Probably not. For seven years, Tifa thinks she hasn't seen the guy; for at least five years, she thinks he didn't even bother to write to her.

But she still clings to the memory of him, AND THAT MAKES HER A SLUT.

Compare that to Aerith. Aerith got to know Zack (and they were presumably in a relationship), and she didn't hear from him for five years too. Now, she may have figured out he copped it and was just in denial - or she might have just felt some form of disturbance when he died. But at any rate, she latched right onto Cloud - in spite of promising Zack she'd wait for him.

Since this behavior is quite different from Tifa's (who is a confirmed slut), we can conclusively state that Aerith is NOT a slut!



Please note - my personal opinion is NOT that flirting makes you slutty, or that Aerith was wrong for not "waiting" for Zack. I'm just trying to show how stupid some arguments can be.

Btw, do we know that Tifa isn't wearing really short bicycle shorts under her skirt? I don't remember ever glimpsing her undies.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I've never heard of such a statement, and we've got the early material files and staff interviews on FFVII's development right here on the front page

And for fuck's sake, how you dress doesn't NOT SPEAK OF HOW SLUTTY YOU ARE. Ever. You cannot reasonably, or fairly judge someone like that. Especially if you say you're a feminist. It's contrary to any belief or view a "Feminist" holds.

How you dress does not pigeonhole or determine if you're a woman who sleeps around or has sex for fucking money. Nor does it justify any sexual harassment a woman may get. Get that misogynous crap out of here, please.

It's all a stupid TRAP to try and insult Tifa and show her as some cock hungry whore to invalidate her relationship and eligibility to be with Cloud.

 

[Celes Chere]

I've never heard of such a statement

I have, but I can't remember where it was said. It was said that they couldn't imagine Aerith in a short skirt. ^^; Anyway, even with that quote, there is nothing stating that Tifa is a slut. Though, they do make a reference to Tifa's figure in Crisis Core. What's wrong with having a nice figure, anyway? It still doesn't make someone a slut.

Tifa haters claim that Tifa is actually the clingy one, and not Aerith. But I definitely disagree with that. She helps Cloud in one of the best ways, which is by leading him to find the answers on his own and not spoon feeding him like a little baby. She's also very shy and reserved, very much unlike Aerith who, knowing Tifa likes Cloud (especially if you say Tifa is your girlfriend in the beginning of the game) still flirts with him openly. The time at the Temple of The Ancients is one time I can recall most clearly. Tifa is standing right there, and Aerith insists that she and Cloud see how compatible they are. Another time, is when she reminds Cloud of their date in the holding cells. When she finds out Tifa is in the room with him, she gets busted. It's made clear... very clear there, that Aerith knows that Tifa has a thing for Cloud, and of course Tifa sees that Aerith is all over him.

I'm not trying to say Aerith is a bad person, especially because Cloud is... well, at that point, a copy of her boyfriend. That's what she sees, so I can't blame her for being attracted to that.

 

[Max Payne]

Tifa is wearing a shirt, on the top part of her body, and it is sleeveless.

This is obvious to me. It doesn't matter what it's called, it's a top without sleeves.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

I think the Cleriths are all jealous of how Aerith would fail in Tifa's clothes.

Just kidding...

But seriously, I love this argument... It's totally wrong of Tifa to sleep with a guy she has
1. been thinking of since seven years ago;
2. worked with and been in several life and death situations with for two months or so
3. looked after dedicatedly for days when he was nothing but a vegetable.

After all, (since it's just Miss Whore '07 Tifa) it's quite all right to discard the last seven years - sleeping with someone you've known two months is just PLAIN WRONG. Especially since, as Isabella pointed out, Tifa walked through his mind and now knows him better than anyone. She was the one who picked up the fucking pieces.

On the other hand, cutting yourself off from physical and mental happiness in the present life to mope over the death of a woman you've known for LESS THAN TWO MONTHS is totally in. And this is the behavior expected of all normal, decent, well-brought up young men.

 

[Max Payne]

Cloud isn't well brought up.

His idea of heroism was joining the military police of the most corrupt organization in the world when he was a kid. Which he actually did, when he was a kid.

 

[Isabella]

On the other hand, cutting yourself off from physical and mental happiness in the present life to mope over the death of a woman you've known for LESS THAN TWO MONTHS is totally in. And this is the behavior expected of all normal, decent, well-brought up young men.

Slightly on a tangent, but I've seen it claimed that Clotis don't believe people can love someone after they've died. STRAWMAN. I for one absolutely believe you can and should go on loving someone after they're gone. The problem isn't whether Cloud can go on loving Aerith, it's whether he ever fully did in the first place. Budding affection, perhaps, but much more?

 

[Celes Chere]

claimed that Clotis don't believe people can love someone after they've died.

Nonsense, since a lot of Cloti supporters seem to also support Zerith.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

I also agree that you shouldn't forget, or stop loving the dead. But to remain romantically hung up over a dead person usually isn't healthy, is it?

Oh, btw, regarding Tifa's clothing being made to contrast with Aerith's, I read it in Wikipedia, which uses this as a source.

Assuming it's legit, it's fairly obvious Tifa wasn't given a mini skirt because she was a slut. It was to provide some form of contrast between the two chicks.

But if you don't agree with that, or if the next (BAD) argument is "Ah, but working from there, you can project their personalities as contrasting - Aerith is wonderful and pure; therefore Tifa is an ordinary slut" - then please refer to this:

... unlike Aerith who, knowing Tifa likes Cloud (especially if you say Tifa is your girlfriend in the beginning of the game) still flirts with him openly. The time at the Temple of The Ancients is one time I can recall most clearly. Tifa is standing right there, and Aerith insists that she and Cloud see how compatible they are. Another time, is when she reminds Cloud of their date in the holding cells. When she finds out Tifa is in the room with him, she gets busted. It's made clear... very clear there, that Aerith knows that Tifa has a thing for Cloud ...

That reminds me why, when I first played the game and up until the minute she died, I didn't like Aerith. The first thing that popped into my head was that she wasn't respecting the relationship between Tifa and Cloud - ie she was what is commonly known as a boyfriend stealer, I believe. Because even though Cloud answers that Tifa is special to him, Aerith continues to hit on him.

Not only should Aerith have realized that Tifa liked Cloud (as Celes Chere said), but she should also have realized that Cloud liked Tifa from that little exchange. Unless Gast dropped her on her head when she was a baby, or something.

Message to young girls: even if a guy tells you, yeah, he's got someone special - continue to hit on him, by all means. Aerith teaches us the value of PERSISTENCE.

As you can see, unlike SlutoftheYear Tifa who gives us young, impressionable, teen-and-older gamers bad messages, Ms Gainsborough is absolutely PURE.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Nonsense, since a lot of Cloti supporters seem to also support Zerith.

Or things like JamesMary, MiaDiego, or KenshinTomoe.

 

[Max Payne]

I've entertained numerous ideas as to why Tifa wore what she did, perhaps it's easier for her to do her kung fu shit in a skirt(eh notrly), or maybe because she worked in a damn bar in the poorest place in her area and needed something to draw the attention of customers, who knows.

It doesn't fucking matter, it's just that the creators are horndogs. Besides I always figured she wore shorts underneath.

 

[Isabella]

Because even though Cloud answers that Tifa is special to him, Aerith continues to hit on him.

Refresh my memory ... what dialogue is this referring to?

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Sure a person can wear something that might indicate they are a certain "way" but that dosen't mean they are. I can wear some really dark "gothique" clothing yet you'll note I'm no emo or whatnot, nor any of the predetermined stereotypes that my clothing might indicate. Clothing *may* indicate a person's personality but it might also just be because the color looks good on them, they like the texture of the fabric, etc.

...that said however, I know people will judge based on superficial things and to pretend otherwise is to sit in the sand while the waves are coming. To a point a person might bend to society's demands if only so you don't end up with a predicament your "clothing asked for". It's shit, it's totally unfair and dehumanizing women (or men, depending on who is being judged and discriminate and harrassed against) but it's also life.

 

[Celes Chere]

Refresh my memory ... what dialogue is this referring to?

The beginning of the game when Aerith asks,
"Is Tifa a girl? A girl... friend?".
If you say "Yeah, that's right", Aerith will say: "Oh, how nice", but her actions towards Cloud will remain the same.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just because its life doesn't mean we have to adhere to it, adopt its views, or follow its erroneous judgment. That's the whole point of calling out bullshit, and enacting change, isn't it?

Hell, stupidity is life, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it or conform to it.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I'm not saying that we should adhere to the unfairnss of life; I'm only saying that if you don't realize that you might get a result that you might not be prepared for.

I'd like to go around in some skimper clothing (no jokes plz! XD) during the hotter days of the year but I'm also very aware that I'd like get at least some very rude comments. Hell, I get rude comments for walking down the street dressed normally.

 

[Dashell]

I like how when a guy sees a man do something stupid on TV he just laughs. But when a woman sees another woman do something stupid on TV it's, "OMG SHE REPRESENTS ALL WOMEN AND MUST BE STOPPED!"

 

[Tennyo]

Slightly on a tangent, but I've seen it claimed that Clotis don't believe people can love someone after they've died. STRAWMAN. I for one absolutely believe you can and should go on loving someone after they're gone. The problem isn't whether Cloud can go on loving Aerith, it's whether he ever fully did in the first place. Budding affection, perhaps, but much more?

Really? Who's been saying this hoo-hockey?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Really? Who's been saying this hoo-hockey?

I've heard it said once at TNC, but the statement was quickly retracted because most Cloti shippers found it offensive. But if she doesn't mean that, then I'm not sure what she means.

 

[Alice Kingsley]

Okay neither of the Girls are Sluty okay? Especially not Aerith, Nomura clearly emphasizes that she is Innocent and Lady-Like. I'm not saying Tifa is a Slut though because she isn't either.

You didn't have to say "If Tifa is so Is Aerith". That doesn't make it better on either part just cause Aerith is Too.

I don't want to get in to a LTD, But this is an LTD thread and I was defending a Character that was being bashed, So if people are going off topic...

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I don't want to get in to a LTD, But this is an LTD thread and I was defending a Character that was being bashed, So if people are going off topic...

Actually, I think both Tifa and Aerith were being "bashed". Tifa was being accused of being a slut, and then we got into a really long conversation about whether or not she was one. Whole thing's redonculous tbh.

 

[Celes Chere]

You feel that Aerith was being bashed with that statement about her clothing? I thought you might have found the marks against her personality as offending too, lol. While I agree with what powerslave said, I wouldn't go so far as to say her personality is 'slutty' because she's clingy. It's hard to blame Aerith for liking Cloud, like I said.

I think it's interesting that Tifa haters find Tifa to be a slut for how she dresses, but not characters like Rikku and Rosa who dress in much more revealing attire. I wish a Tifa hater could explain exactly how that works sometime. Maybe when Channy gets back, she'll enlighten me.

And, do Aerith haters even exist anymore?

 

[Heart-Is-Chained]

lol neither girl dress's "slutty"

I like Tifa's FFVII outfit and I suppose it fits with where she is? Hm I dunno...But I suppose even if you did call her slutty, the same could be said for Aerith, I mean her dress is unbuttoned quite a bit, even on the figurines n stuff...

So neither girl dresses slutty, and Tifa haters kinda suck, She's my fave ff female lol totally random =D

I think some Cleriths think Tifa is a slut because it is a way for them to say that she is the complete opposite of Aerith or something and so Aerith should be with him because she is uber innocent. :/ I will say though that I think Tifa did have kind of the wrong idea about things in CC, dressing up for Cloud the way she did, but she was only 15 man... give her a break. But meh, neither girl is a slut...

please excuse my terrible spelling >____>