The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Though in a different issue they were talking about the new Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith figures and they placed Cloud and Tifa together with Aerith off to the side saying,

"There's a new Cloud and Tifa. Oh, and that annoying flowergirl."

I assume more than one person writes their articles. XP So the one writing the "omg best video game pairings" article just didn't know anything. Though, I wasn't impressed with the rest of their coverage so I probably won't buy it again.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

they're back to game magazines?
Canon not good enough for them? What about the Cloud/Tifa exposure in magazines, or are those somehow not valid?

Magazines are magazines. Mostly it's trying to get you to buy shit, written by people with differing opinions on everything. So, one thinks Tifa is Cloud's main lady, while others think he's screwing Sehiroth, while others think Red's babies totally have some Aeris in them. Just sayin here.

And Aeris is how I say her name too. Never got used to Aerith.

 

[Restless]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg12604#msg12604 date=1233351655]
And Aeris is how I say her name too. Never got used to Aerith.
[/quote]

I understand that a lot of fans still use Aeris. It's just a bit different with a magazine--official names should be used, and seeing as Aeris hasn't been used since the (English) release of FFVII, and that it wasn't the correct Romanization to begin with, Aerith should've been used. I'm fine with people using Aeris, though, as long as they know that Aerith is her name. 'Cause there are still people out there who refuse to believe that

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Restless link=topic=53.msg12609#msg12609 date=1233352204]
I understand that a lot of fans still use Aeris. It's just a bit different with a magazine--official names should be used, and seeing as Aeris hasn't been used since the (English) release of FFVII, and that it wasn't the correct Romanization to begin with, Aerith should'be been used. I'm fine with people using Aeris, though, as long as they know that Aerith is her named. 'Cause there are still people out there who refuse to believe that
[/quote]


And that's what I meant. I still like Aeris and the few times I say it out loud I say Aeris. However, I stopped being stubborn about it and realized that it's not the official name of the character, so when talking about her I should really say Aerith.

My kitten's still name Aeris. It's just a prettier name imo.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Balthea link=topic=53.msg12542#msg12542 date=1233322086]I assume more than one person writes their articles. XP So the one writing the "omg best video game pairings" article just didn't know anything. Though, I wasn't impressed with the rest of their coverage so I probably won't buy it again.
[/quote]

D: It was just one issue. Believe me, it's a good mag!

Other game magazines annoy me greatly most of the time.

[quote author=CelesChere link=topic=53.msg12381#msg12381 date=1233273344]Though in a different issue they were talking about the new Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith figures and they placed Cloud and Tifa together with Aerith off to the side saying,

"There's a new Cloud and Tifa. Oh, and that annoying flowergirl."
[/quote]

I actually think I might remember reading that. And I must go buy this issue with the video game couples. Is it the current issue?

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I thought "Aeris" and "Aerith" were supposed to be pronounced the same way.

I can't remember who told me that, but I remember thinking that he usually knew what he was talking about.

Eh, whatever. I write it out with the 'th', but I have always and will always say it with as s sound at the end.

 

[Shademp]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=juniper link=topic=53.msg12733#msg12733 date=1233377348]
I thought "Aeris" and "Aerith" were supposed to be pronounced the same way.

I can't remember who told me that, but I remember thinking that he usually knew what he was talking about.
[/quote]
I recall a once-legendary FF forum(s) member, "SquallOfSeed" or something, who cited that the 'th' is actually pronounced 's'. So pronounce wise, Aeris = Aerith, at least it is supposed to be.
But with that logic we would always have called Sephiroth = Sephiros. However that name originates from the Kabbalah, and may already have had the official pronounciation of 'th' as something more 'f'-like.
I dare say that Crisis Core messed up with Aerith's name.

For those who wonder SquallOfSeed is no longer the active Final Fantasy researcher he once was. He (I assume it's a he since he has a wife) gave it up to live, well, LIFE. Good for him.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The S sound is just the way the Japanese pronounce it, kind of like how they can't pronounce the letter L and consonants sometimes have and O after them.

I mean, but that Squall guy's logic Cloud should be Kuraudo.

 

[Restless]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah, Aerith is supposed to be pronounced with a -th, not a -s. Many people in Japan don't use the correct sounds English words. The creators intended her name to be pronounced Aerith, just as with Cloud and Zack (Zakkusu, anyone?), and it overrules everything else. And, still, there are people who pronounce it correctly in Japan as well.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Seeing Zack referred to as Zax by non-Japanese people makes me want to choke a bitch. D:< It's just not right!

 

[Frostwave]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

This is probably what you read, juniper. Either that, or whoever told you probably saw this. From Squall of Seed's Advent Children plot analysis:

"Aerith" or "Aeris"?: Which Should it be? What's the origin of this name?
*A: In Japanese there are the Katakana and Hiragana alphabets, as well as the
Romaji alphabet (there's also Kanji, but that's irrelevant in regard to this
matter; Romaji, by the way, is basically "Englishized Japanese," an alphabet
in which English characters are used to represent Japanese sounds).

"Aerith" -- and, consequently, "Aeris -- is a Japanese transliteration of the
English word "Earth, as confirmed by the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho
guide:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Aerith.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Aerith2.jpg

Hiragana is used for Japanese names, however, as Aerith's name isn't of
Japanese origin, Katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not
of Japanese origin) is used. The writing of "Earth" in Katakana is "Earisu."
This is because it's standard for vowels to follow consonants in Japanese
("n" being the only exception; thus, the "i" after "r&quot and the Japanese
language has no "th" characters, instead using "su." It will become "Aeris" as
a result of writing it in romaji (again, the alphabet in which English
characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken
in Japanese ("Air-reese"; the Japanese "ea" sounds akin to the English "air&quot.

"Aerith," the official romanization of the name, should technically never
occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of
the Japanese transliteration of "Earth" and the original form of the word in
English. It's technically impossible for this to occur in romaji because there
is no "th" sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters.
Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final
Fantasy VII as a matter of preference, and has been the cause of a senseless
amount of debate among the fandom.

In conclusion, "Aeris" and "Aerith" are pronounced the same way ("Air-reese&quot
-- as both are romanizations of a Japanese transliteration -- a concept that
renders the spelling "Aerith" impossible as far as the rules -- and purpose --
of romaji are concerned. In any event, "Aerith" IS the official spelling of
the character's name, though the spelling SHOULD technically be "Aeris" in
romaji so as to properly represent the name's pronunciation. In any event, the
pronunciation should always be "Air-reese" regardless of the use of "Aeris" or
"Aerith" as its spelling.

I think there's an explanation similar to this on wikipedia.

Personally, the name change doesn't bug me too much. 'Aerith' looks nicer on paper, but 'Aeris' sounds better.

At least they didn't really change her name.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I would laugh if SE changed her name to Aerith so that all the Greek Goddess theories the Clerith come up with could be debunked.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

What theories? Never heard of it...
And how the name Aeris could be linked to Hera (Yrah, ???)?

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

"Cloud" in Greek is "???????" (sounnefo);
"Strife" is "?????????" (sygrousy) or "??????" (ahonas).

I don't see any "Aeris" there... :-\

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

No I distinctly remember once reading an essay once that said that Aeris was the name of a Goddess. Maybe it was the Roman name. I can't remember. :/

 

[Bonaventura]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Some people pronounce Aeris as ''Eris'', who is a goddess of discord or in this case, strife, in Greek mythology.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I thought Eris was the goddess of disharmony. But wiki says that she's the goddess of strife. Okay then.

As for translations, it's not quite true:
"Aeras" (?????) means "air" in Greek, not "cloud" ("???????" - sounnefo).
And "Eris" (????) means "dispute, contention, quarrel".

As for "flower", I'm not sure what language they spoke of, but in Greek it's ???????? (louloudy).

EDIT: Oh, yes and in Latin "Aer" or "Aeris" also means "Air". And "Cloud" is "Nimbus".

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Greek Goddess theories the Clerith come up with could be debunked.

Please tell me you're joking....

As for GI spelling her name Aeris, they also did that when they previewed Crisis Core. I believe they said, "The relationship between Zack and Aeris will be revealed"

Maybe they prefer Aeris too? O.o

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

They connect her name Aeris to the name, "Eris?" Well, isn't that fun?

FF7 Dismantling states that Aerith's name is simply a play on the word 'earth', because of her heritage and ability to communicate with the Planet and has no deep/mystical meanings. (Taken from site)

And plus, if it did have a connection; the word Strife, and the goddess Eris are both bad things - Eris is the goddess of discord, strife means a bitter conflict - so then we can conclude that the two together would make a bad pairing.

On the other hand, Tifa's name:

In the Kabbalah, it's stated that man is separated from God by the sin of the
world, and the only way he can return to God is by navigating the paths of the
Sephiroth. The Sephiroth, also known as the "Tree of Life," is a spiritual
grid that represents the 10 divine emanations of God as projected into the
mortal world. These 10 aspects of God are comprised of 22 paths based in seven
realms of mortal existance. Along each path, a soul must overcome obstacles to
reach the next node, gaining a further understanding of itself and more of its
potential -- yet still limited -- understanding of God. If it is triumphant
throughout the life of its time as a mortal, it will gain a full understanding
of itself and as great an understanding of God as is possible for a mortal
being. The soul attains this great understanding when it reaches the central
node on the grid, the Tifaret (also spelled as "Tipharet," "Tiferet," and
"Tipheret&quot. From here, the soul will ascend to the seventh and highest realm
of conscious mortal existance, where it gains full understanding of itself and
may rejoin with God.
While on the subject of the center of the Tree of Life, let us return to the
matter. As mentioned before, the central node on the Tree is called the
Tifaret. Interestingly enough, the name bears a very striking resemblance to
the first name of the character known as Tifa Lockhart. Tifa is the Tifaret,
so to speak, at least for Cloud. In the Lifestream, she helps him find
himself, and he comes to fully understand himself, the penultimate goal of
following the Sephiroth's paths. One seeks to find an understanding of
theirself and then they may ascend to the final realm and rejoin with God.

Through Tifa, Cloud reaches the highest plain of conscious existance, gaining
an understanding and acceptance of himself, and, in so doing, is easily able
to purge JENOVA and Sephiroth from his mind during the game's ending. In
actuality, both Tifa and Cloud constitute a Tifaret. Tifa bears its virtues,
while Cloud bears its vices. He also is the one to experience the effects of
an unbalanced Tifaret, the illusion of over-identification. In being unwilling
to accept himself for who he was, Cloud over-identified himself with that
which he felt he must be in order to be special: Someone like Zack. This
illusion of imbalance nearly crippled Cloud's mind during the game. With
Tifa's help, he was able to overcome it, and accept who he was, thus,
achieving balance.

So Tifa balances Cloud? Egad!

 

[Suzaku]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It doesn't matter, the creators have officially stated her name is derived from the word Earth, because of her relationship with the Planet. Aeris was an error of transliteration, done by the same people who brutalized the localization and gave us such shining gems of romanization as Knowlespole and Midgar Zolom. You gonna trust them?

Cloud Strife is supposed to referance stormy weather. Zack's last name, Fair, was selected specifically to mean "fair weather", in contrast with Cloud's "stormy weather".


Really, it never ceases to amaze me how much thought people put into such subjects. I'm confident that that Kazushige Nojima and the other staff working on the scenario didn't put nearly the amount of thought into it that the fans do.


I mean, we know the events of Final Fantasy VII took only about two months. Cloud knew Aerith for, I imagine, no more than 2-4 weeks. He was her bodyguard, there may have been some mutual attraction there, but he didn't know who he was at the time and was more or less a facsimile of Zack, who was Aerith's old love interest. She was killed, and probably felt like a Grade-A cunt when she found out Zack really hadn't stood her up and had actually died thinking of her. Cloud ended up shacking up with his old love interest, Tifa, and when everything was said and done, they went as far as living with a couple of orphans like a real family.

They lived together happily until Cloud was sent back to Aerith's grave and was forced to face the fact that he couldn't protect her like he promised to. He was filled with regret, not so much for losing a love interest, but because of his percieved inability to protect anyone, which he says out loud so the viewer can hear him. Tifa and Aerith's ghost team up to give him a double "suck it up faggot", he did, Aerith's ghost walked off into the sunset with Zack's ghost, and Cloud moved on with his life. Whether or not he and Tifa live happily ever after, they're both dead 500 years later and Nanaki has finally gotten laid.

What is there to debate about, exactly?

At best, Cloud + Aerith was a short-lived romance that ended with her death and eventually lead to a period of deep mourning and regret for Cloud before he moved on with his life. At worst, it was a disfunctional relationship brought on by a personality disorder and longing that ended abruptly and lead to a period of deep mourning and regret for Cloud before he moved on with his life. Either way, it ended at the end of disc 1, or at the very least, by the end of AC.

Tifa + Cloud is more or less canon after the fact, and whether or not they have a healthy relationship after AC can't be known, but they either do or don't, and Aerith shouldn't be a factor in it anymore, since AC was in large part about Cloud getting over his lingering feelings about her, romantic or not.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

^That's all fine and good, but try explaining that to people who firmly believe the ending credits of AC prove Cloud and Aerith's spirit are having romantic meetups and that their spirits have "melded."

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Bonaventura link=topic=53.msg12859#msg12859 date=1233430031]
Some people pronounce Aeris as ''Eris'', who is a goddess of discord or in this case, strife, in Greek mythology.
[/quote]

This is the one I was talking about! Aeris is the goddess of Cloud's last name, so it must be true love.

 

[spirit3d]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Through Tifa, Cloud reaches the highest plain of conscious existance...both Tifa and Cloud constitute a Tifaret.

Other sources state otherwise, though...
http://tifa.nu/tifa/original

FF7 Dismantling, a book made practically entirely out of the FF7 staff's input, states that Tifa is nothing but a shortened version of the real name Tiffany. In Japanese, Tiffany is written as ?????? - the same way that Tifa is spelt, only with 'ni-' at the end. The etymology of Tiffany has no relevance to FF7, so Tifa is just a made-up name, to sound pretty and unique. This is in keeping with the trend from FF2-FF8, where all of the heroines have similar names that contain an 'i' and an 'a' at the end. Chronologically, these are: Maria, Elia, Rydia, Reina, Tina, Tifa and Rinoa

I guess it's nice to think that the creators so intended for two characters to be romantically linked, up to the point that they'd actually pay attention to minute details such as how the characters names would even complement each other... but I think the reality of the situation is that creators sometimes name their characters on a whim, and it's us, the fans, that look too much into it. :-\

What is there to debate about, exactly?

I think everyone here agrees that there is no more debate. It's just that when people keep pulling random shiet to fuel the dying fire, you can't help but want to step in and correct them

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=spirit3d link=topic=53.msg13021#msg13021 date=1233466811]I guess it's nice to think that the creators so intended for two characters to be romantically linked, up to the point that they'd actually pay attention to minute details such as how the characters names would even complement each other... but I think the reality of the situation is that creators sometimes name their characters on a whim, and it's us, the fans, that look too much into it. :-\
[/quote]

This. I suck at names. Really I do. I even have an OC whose last name is Dell because I was typing on a Dell computer at the time.

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Other sources state otherwise, though...
http://tifa.nu/tifa/original

Hehe, I e-mailed her that information. And I'm not saying that it's true, but if they're going to give me symbolism/divinity stuff, then I might find some as well.