The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Even Aerith and Zack know Cloud's place isn't with them/Clerith. Considering how much the Clerii wanted him to die, I almost think that scene was a mean fake-out, they probably all saw him in the light thinking he's going to have his time with Aerith now blah blah blah, and the no, the exact opposite.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Same goes for all 'Cleirh' moments in AC:
Cloud walks in the church... famous 'ying/yang' scene;
Cloud enters 'white space'... SE states that Aerith appeared as a mother figure;
Cloud sees Aerith`s spirit and goes O.O... but before that he sees Tifa and smiles at her;
Cloud enters Lifestream... calls Aerith "mother" and she is flirting with Zack;
Cloud sees Aerith in the church... together with Zack.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

If Cloud really wanted to die, he wouldn't have spent the whole film fighting for his life against Kadaj & co I don't get how that fits in with this supposed 'death drive' Cloud is meant to have.

Now...... The most important bit, Ai cannot exist without Koi but Koi can exist without Ai. Why?

Simply ----> You have to fall in love (Koi) first before you can really love (Ai) towards someone.

I assume this is in the case of relationships between men and women (or men/men or women/women). Because you can't 'koi' for the Earth or mankind or, hopefully, your family.

They never say I love you with "koi", Instead they use "Aishiteru".

Tell that to Japan.

I think 'omoi wo yoseru' is only talking about one person's feelings. The other person might not know about it.

I don't get this movement to discredit 'koi' now. It might not be as epic as 'ai', but it still as its place as the exciting, romantic love. It's not hard to find love songs written about 'koi'. It is something you'd eventually move on from in some way or another, but still.

And what does that have to do with this topic? As far as I know neither 'koi' nor 'ai' as been used for either Tifa or Aerith. Except for 'koibito', which doesn't really make much sense to be nitpicking at 'koi' there because 'aijin' ['koibito' written with 'ai'] = one's extramarital lover. That's hardly a nice thing.

EDIT; actually, Tifa did get 'koi' for FFVII in the Ultimania Omega ('koi no taishou', object of [her] love).

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

And what does that have to do with this topic? As far as I know neither 'koi' nor 'ai' as been used for either Tifa or Aerith.

Then you missed this undeniable CxA PROOF, good sir.

?NOMURA?CHECK?
???
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(?)?]
[?NOMURA?CHECK?
Nomura
I believe, for those who formerly travelled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day... It's relations with this church scene is... Yup. I'll leave this part to your imagination. (Laughs).] ~My Translation


The most important part of this statement that indicates Cloud's feeling is...
1) The word undying feeling.
2) The word "Aijou" (??).
3) Cloud carry his own feeling for Aerith.

Explanation :
1) Its undying even to this very day~! Eternal~! Forever~! o_O
2) If you have read my post properly. Somewhere there is a definition on the word "Ai"(?). "Aijou"(??) has the same meaning and function as "Ai"(?). Anyways, "Ai"(?) could mean platonic love or true love/eternal. Both of them are unconditional forever kind of love.
3)Random Cloti : "Pfft, Nomura is talking about Cloud loving Aerith as a brother/father/son/friend etc etc".
Please, let me explain.
[for those who formerly travelled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith.]
What kind of feeling? Obviously not true/eternal love. It's definitely platonic love.
[Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day...]
His own feeling in contrast to the feeling of his other comrade towards Aerith. Say, what other kind of love does the word "ai" have other than platonic love? Oh i remember.. True/Eternal love... This idea is furthermore supported by 1) and DoC Game Manual. <---

Conclusion :
Cloud romantically loves Aerith eternally.

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Their lack of any consistency gives them away as usual. They have five or six different ways to try and discredit the dreaded k-word which they all run with simultaneously and which are all contradictory to one another.

And they wish it was 'ai' so they could dismiss it as platonic love.

Besides, in Maiden when Aerith says Zack could never be a lover doesn't she use koibito?

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Fighter: She does use 'koibito'. There was also that 'be seen as lovers' things, although that's meant to be 'see [their] lovers'.

??????????????????

??????????????????????????????????????

It's nice to go on and on about 'aijou', but Nomura used 'feelings'. The one that isn't 'ai', and isn't 'koi'. 'Omoi'. Didn't we just have something saying that doesn't mean 'love'? You know, when it was used for Cloud and Tifa.

Also, I think this is being misunderstood/parsed incorrectly.

??????????????????(1)???????????????????????????????

1: De: A form of 'desu/da', used to connect to clauses. '[She] is...'

In this case, 'Aerith is a comrade who previously travelled together with [AVALANCHE]', and I think that the viewers also have...'.

If they were going for what this translation says, I would think using 'ni mo' instead of 'de' would be more correct.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

But what about "Aerith can see through the essence of Cloud" from this scan:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/aerithlove527/FF7omga4319.jpg

Is it a correct translation? Im still not sure :-\

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The issue is that they see 'ai' in aijou and think it must mean love, even though one can have aijou hate, guilt, respect, or even revulsion. Put another way, if aijou automatically meant love, there would be no need to put 'feelings' afterwards.

It's also worth pointing out that he never says what the relation between these feelings and the church is (giving his usual I'll leave that up to your imagination teaser), but going by the movie and the rest of the compilation, the undying feelings are much the same as those with Zack.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Hate, guilt and revulsion for 'aijou' seems a little odd. It is written with 'ai', which is usually a good thing. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of it being used for a negative emotion.

'See through the essence' seems a little strange. Like you've looked past the essence to something else behind that. 'See through to...' would be better. She sees through his facade to the fact that he isn't who he's pretending to be.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I may have gotten ahead of myself there. I was simply pointing out that it really means 'undying' and used other types of feelings I generally associated with 'undying'. I do agree it'd be odd for aijou to be with hate specifically, but I do recall it being used for an undying respect for someone otherwise hated.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg6306#msg6306 date=1231265336]'See through the essence' seems a little strange. Like you've looked past the essence to something else behind that. 'See through to...' would be better. She sees through his facade to the fact that he isn't who he's pretending to be.
[/quote]

Well, yes, in FFVII it is clear that Aerith is aware that Cloud isnt exactly who he pretends to be, therefore she said in the date scene that she wanted to know the real him.

There is another translation, Id like to know if its correct or not, Id really appreciate your help
http://i42.tinypic.com/kbrshv.jpg

Its a scan from RF where Sakurai says that he is a Tifa fan.
There is also a singled out quote: "Im a "Tifa" man myself".
If translation is correct here, doesnt that mean that Sakurai says that beside Cloud, he`s also a "Tifa" man?... Like "Cloud is a "Tifa" man and so am I". What do you think guys?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

No, Sakurai is just saying that he himself is a 'Tifa' Man. What's more relevant is the quote below, where he calls Tifa something special because of her connection with Cloud and the balance between her appearance and personality.

Of course, the really interesting part is that they recorded lines together for their scenes, which Sakurai didn't do with other people. It looks like they wanted to make damn sure they were properly reacting to each other.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I just read it as talking about himself.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Thanks xd; I wasnt sure if I understood that part correctly.

Nomura and Nozue worked hard to make Tifa to be a perfect balance with Cloud's character.

– Reunion Files

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah I think Saukrai is stating that he himself likes Tifa better than Aerith. Not sure if it has any real barring on anything at all, it's just his personal opinion.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Tifa something special because of her connection with Cloud and the balance between her appearance and personality

But he's just a voice actor so it doesn't count for anything. :B
Really, if the person playing Cloud's character can see how much depth they put into the Cloud and Tifa relationship...

Oh, apparently Sephiroth kills people based on Cloud's intimacy level with others. Sephiroth didn't kill Tifa because Cloud didn't love her enough. But, Sephiroth knew that Cloud loved Aerith, so he killed her.

I thought it was because he was insane, and didn't want her to summon holy, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

But if Sephiroth kills based on intimacy levels, and wants to kill what Cloud cherishes most in AC, that means he didn't actually do it right the first time, so Aerith wasn't what (real) Cloud cherishes the most.
Walah.

And Celes, you know if Sakurai had said he liked Aerith the pinks would have been all over it.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Of course they would. If they freak about flowers being in Dissidia, I can only imagine.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=CelesChere link=topic=53.msg6691#msg6691 date=1231393138]
Oh, apparently Sephiroth kills people based on Cloud's intimacy level with others. Sephiroth didn't kill Tifa because Cloud didn't love her enough. But, Sephiroth knew that Cloud loved Aerith, so he killed her.
[/quote]
Like Tifa before him, being a ~koibito~ to everyone, Cloud too is a massive whore.

Because Sephiroth went a bit overboard. Killed nearly the whole of Nibelheim.

And President Shinra.

And that big snake.


Since the one who killed Aerith (who reminds Cloud of his mum) was actually a disguised Jenova ("MOTHER MOTHER MOTHER&quot, the real motivation was that Jenova wanted Cloud to see her as his new mum, and not Aerith.

You can't disprove it. Stop shoving your interpretations down my throat.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Now I forget if this is just interpretation or if something was said somewhere...

Cloud has Jenova cells manipulating himself to become something different. Aerith is the last of the Ancients and misses Zack terribly. Since Tifa's mind was read to form this new personality, would it be possible that Aerith's was also read, and Jenova used her old trick of manipulation to make Cloud even more like Zack to lure Aerith to her death...

It sounds crazy, but I can't remember where I heard that before, whether it was someone's theory or not, but it made a bit of sense to me.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I don't think anyone's said straight out either way if he does or doesn't.

When Jenova cells do something, it's usually shown with a flash of light and noise. IIRC, you get one when Cloud falls in the church (states his job as what Zack wanted to do) and in 'Green Park' (states his SOLDIER class as 1st like Zack).

Luring her to her death seems a bit farfetched, though.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Ya, I don't remember it in anything I've read, though now I'm remembering us just talking about it in Faith a while back.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yeah I don't know if you can say that Jenova was really the one in control of Cloud. I always got the impression that her cells all had minds of their own and they were just doing what they needed to in order to get to the reunion.

How's that for far fetched?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Aside from 'mind of their own', that's technically the reunion theory in a nutshell, Tenny

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Well yes, but with the "mind of their own" thing thrown in.