The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[paoo]

I'm a Clerith shipper, that's my group. I ship Clerith. And as I said before yes, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with some of the CxA membership. Group me as you like then.

I'll kindly direct you to several posts where I calmly discuss this, and I know for a fact that several people here have thanked me for joining so there can be a civil discussion. But when I keep seeing comments that bash Clerith shippers and insult them, what do you want me to do? Agree with them? I suppose I could ignore them yes, but why should I have to? Why do Clerith shippers need to be insulted at all here?

And if I misunderstood the topic, then tell me what the topic is.

I have said myself that I used to be a Clerith before. I still am, but consider the pairing as fanon. Now I am debating, and is defending the canon one. And I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way. I'm not pointing out "da Clerithz." I often call it some people or the rabid ones instead of being rude to everyone. There are rabid-Clotis too, but now I'm just talking about the group that think Cloud and Aerith had spiritual smex in da flowerbed and etc. It's stupid, okay? Anyway, it was not my intention to offend you or anyone else if I did. But you aren't being very nice either.. Just saying.

And about that "Wakka and Lulu had a baby!" thingy.. Cloud and Tifa is raising Marlene and Denzel together, doesn't that mean a thing then? And let me give you some examples when Cloud and Teef are being "close".

1. Cloud is holding onto Tifa firmly when she's crying over Aerith's death. They share the same bedroom/bed?
-Case of Tifa

Tifa is resting her head on his chest, and shoulder. They also hold hands. Cloud carresses Tifa's cheek. (Both in the game, LO and CC)
-Final Fantasy 7

And Tifa was a koibito to someone.
Does it ring any bell? The only one she have feelings for is, Cloud Strife.

 

[Edley]

INTERMISSION! It's absolutely not relevant, other than the fact that rabid Cloti's don't like ghosts either.

 

[Channy]

Because everyone fucking knows that Aerith is ZOOMED in on and closer to Cloud- OH! And did you see the way she looked at Cloud? That has got to be saying that they are in LOVE right? And did you notice that Zack leaves BEFORE Aerith? It means that Aerith wanted to stay with Cloud forever and that Cloud was staring at her the longest!

Hrm... That DOES sound familiar, now where have I heard that. orite

I dunno, does the truth hurt? You tell me. Let me play "Clerith Asshole" for a minute. *slips on the Asshole hat* Alrighty! Here's my impression of a Cloti!

If Cloud doesn't want Tifa he's gotta be gay. But hey, he does want her, remember they fucked under the Highwind, while the other party members watched, exhibitionists are sexy yeah! Of course they had sex, that was the implication in the original scene, ya know, the one they cut. Come on guys, cut material = CANON! And they slept in the same bed in CoT and Tifa gave Cloud that smexy look at the end of AC. Oh yeah, Cloud got laid that night!

And ya know, uh, Crisis Core! That clearly retcons Zerith to be canon! I mean sure, we already knew Aerith liked Zack, she says so in FF7, but ya know...CC makes that love canon, and eternal and all. Aeris says she was over Zack, bah she's lying, she's hot for him! And they're dead together even, which is why Zack isn't in Case of the Lifestream...but, uh, Sephiroth is! Of course, Aeriseph, during development they were lovers, CANON! Aerith is dead and in love with Zack....or Sephy...or both! Of course! That night after AC Tifa and Cloud had sex while the other guys had a threesome in the lifestream, tru luv! Zaeriseph is canon, so is Cloti!

=/

*SMITE*

As for the whole smile debate. I find it rather silly. He smiles at the end. It goes off the goofycrapometer when people say he doesn't smile at Tifa. Or that his expression doesn't change after he focuses on her.

*smitten*

What I find most compelling about the smile scene, is the way his mouth literally drops when he first sees Aerith AND ZACK (throwing that out for y'all) and then after she says to him it's okay he smiles. Mouth drop + smile = makes for a sexeh Cloud.

 

[Celes Chere]

Which pinker was it that confused the two words? Or was it multiple pinkers?

FuckFace_Goddess.

Y'know, if the whole of compilation is taken into account, then we have to acknowledge that Tifa is the reason Cloud joined Shinra

I kid you not, but some would argue that Tifa is only one reason, and not the main reason, and that the reason for Cloud joining is clear: He did it for himself, and no-one else. He didn't want to be weak anymore, and he wanted the whole town to notice him, not just Tifa. OH and did you notice how Cloud forgot Tifa's promise in the beginning of the game? Never mind that it's relevant to the plot, and that Jenova is messing with his mind. If he REALLY loved her, he would have remembered the promise regardless. And did you know that it's not until Aerith showed up in the picture, that Cloud drop his "Icy cold exterior"? Even though he decided to help Avalanche because of Tifa's words, that can't possibly be correct because Tifa is just a desperate ho that he does not care about. Like duh.

So he's not smiling at Aerith or Zack, at all. He's just content.

He is smiling at the both of them though. Because of both of them, he realizes he is not alone and smiles. RF/Ultimania said so. Just saying. ^^; Facts are love.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

I kid you not, but some would argue that Tifa is only one reason, and not the main reason, and that the reason for Cloud joining is clear: He did it for himself, and no-one else. He didn't want to be weak anymore, and he wanted the whole town to notice him, not just Tifa.

I agree with you there. Cloud didn't join Soldier to please Tifa, he did it to become stronger, because he wanted to be like Sephiroth and to impress the whole town. Remember how Tifa's father treated him. I'm not saying Tifa wasn't also a reason, but she wasn't the main reason.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Except that goes against what he says on the subject. Cloud says he did it because he wanted to be noticed... By Tifa. So by Cloud's own words, getting her notice was the foremost reason.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

If he REALLY loved her, he would have remembered the promise regardless.

So let's use that logic to figure out Cloud's feelings for Aeris since he beats her up and all that. Hmm...must not care at all then.
Sometimes I wonder if we played the same game.

Even though he decided to help Avalanche because of Tifa's words

Which is quite ridiculous. Barret doesn't even give Cloud the money he wants. So, cold mercenary who doesn't give a fuck about anyone (planet included), why did j00 stay?

Remember how Tifa's father treated him. I'm not saying Tifa wasn't also a reason, but she wasn't the main reason.

The reason he wanted to become strong was because he wanted to be noticed by Tifa.
He didn't just wake up one day and say, "Imma be like Sephiroth".
In the profile timelines, covering major events in the characters' lives, Cloud's story and his fear of failure begins with Tifa's trip to the mountains. It is AFTER he failed Tifa that he blames himself and starts fights with people in order to prove he isn't a failure (making an ass out of himself in the process).
Whether people like it or not, that's his major motivation. He later meets Zack, who gives him the strength to keep fighting for that dream -- you know, the "tender memories" and "secret wish no one could ever know". That's Tifa. Not Bob of Nibelheim.

 

[Eerie]

Script:

(Suddenly, the transparent Cloud high above speaks. Tifa doesn't hear.)

"......I was devastated. ......I wanted to be noticed."

(The Cloud of the well echoes these same words.)

"......I was devastated. ......I wanted to be noticed."

(The next words come only from the Cloud of the well.)

"I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to
notice........."

(Tifa nods.)

Tifa
"Someone has to notice you...? ......who?"

(The Cloud above speaks again.)

"Who.........? ......You know who! ......You, that's who."

(The Cloud of the well speaks differently.)

"You......"

How to: read Celes:

I kid you not, but some would argue that Tifa is only one reason, and not the main reason, and that the reason for Cloud joining is clear: He did it for himself, and
no-one else. He didn't want to be weak anymore, and he wanted the whole town to notice him, not just Tifa.

Means that she disagrees. Basic reading comprehension skills, please!

 

[Frostwave]

"Who.........? ......You know who! ......You, that's who."

Just me being OC, but the bolded 'You' was written like 'YOU' all in caps. And most of the online scripts I've read just leave it out. :/ I just always thought that was funny. He was kind of exasperated like "How could you not know I'm obsessed with you, Tifa!?"

Not that she should've with the way Cloud went about things back then, the dumbass.

 

[mentaz]

Everything of that part of the script is about cloud's stalking fetiches over tifa at nibelsomething (I can't spell it. sue me.)

 

[Isabella]

And what I want a Clerith to answer is why the writer(s) made such a huge deal about Cloud's past feelings if they're irrelevant in the present. Why introduce information that has no meaning?

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Before I write this, I have to say I don't particularly believe in any of the pairings, though I find CloudxTifa to be the more credible one. Having said that, I also don't think that wanting to be noticed by someone necessarily means love. Tifa was the one who came up with the "promise" idea...

 

[Eerie]

"......a sealed up secret...... wish...."
"Tender memories...... no one can ever know........."

Tifa
"After you left town, I really thought about you a lot."

(She holds her face in her hands.)

"I used to wonder how Cloud was doing."
"I wonder if Cloud was able to get into SOLDIER?"

(She spins back to face Young Cloud.)

Tifa
"I started reading the newspapers, thinking that there might be an
article about you."

(Young Cloud looks down.)

"Thanks, Tifa."
"Tell him what you told me, later. He'll probably be so happy."

Yet, Cloud himself lead us to believe that he had indeed a huge crush on her. Also, even if Tifa strongarmed him into the promise, it's something that is etched in his memories/heart. You can't say it's meaningless for him, because SE made sure that everytime Cloud would remember/refer to the promise.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm also curious why those past feelings don't count, but other past feelings somehow do. And when feelings become past feelings and no longer matter.
But yeah, telling us Cloud's motivations in a scene where we are finally meeting Cloud as he is means those motivations still apply. Especially when he says 'nothing's changed' a short while later in the plot WRT those emotions and motivations.

 

[Barking Moon]

It was my understanding that he wanted to be noticed by her long before they made the promise. He hated that he couldn't save her when they fell off the bridge when he walked away with a few cuts and bruises and she ended up in a coma. I think it came down to him wanting to be stronger so that something like that would never happen again (to her? Yes I would say most likely). I think he was a bit too obsessive over her during the whole lifestream flashback for the feelings he had towards her to be just oh i'ma gonna impress this girl so we can be BFF! Oh thats it, Cloud and TIfa belong together because they're both fecking stalkers! And yeah you don't have tender memories and secret wishes that no one could ever know about random villagers. If it was that he wanted to be noticed by the populous of Nibelheim I think that would have been worded differently. Tender memories and secret wishes are reserved for people you consider special to you like sweethearts and MOTHERS...of your children.

I don't understand how this whole sequence is ignored either. Its basically throwing Cloud's feelings in your face. Its not like you know a hell of a lot about the real Cloud from Nibelheim up until this point. So yeah...its kind of important. But to some the scenes that do not include Aerith actually being in it or mentioned iin some way it is irrelevant.

Oh and hi everyone, I have enjoyed and lawled muchly at this extravaganza. Can't believe its still going on after all these years. Hoping I can chime in. /endn00byetoldrant

 

[Fighter]

Trying to diminish Tifa's prominence in Cloud's decision to join SOLDIER is seriously grasping for straws.

 

[mentaz]

well you have to understand that the sequence gets in the way of certain pairings like clack. but like i said before this is basicly shuffle repeat, and what we have pro-clerith is that aerith fell in love with cloud or with zack all over again. It depends on your point of view. I still have hope to see some serious clerith proofs and evidence os cloud's love for Aerith.
oh believe me this is going to last a very long time

 

[Barking Moon]

Indeed I debated in the old ACF forums with the same hard headed militant people. This stuff will be rehashed like leftover cafeteria mystery meat at least until the zombie apocalypse, and then possibly some time after that...until someone gets through their thick skulls, with a pickaxe most likely.

I'm still trying after all these years to understand how symbolism (much of it being pulled out of someone's ass) is somehow greater than actual dialogue and actions. AND CREATOR COMMENTS.

 

[mentaz]

some people just loved The Da Vinci Code and thought of making their own assumptions.
I also pulled a Robert Langdon at the Cloti fanclub. I don't mean to brag but I have to say that it's one of my best cloti proofs.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The same way Belief in bronze age mysticism with 0 evidenciary backing is somehow more compelling and authoritative than 150 years worth of facts and findings.

Barking, be ye who I think ye be?

 

[Fighter]

People believe in what makes them comfortable.

 

[Barking Moon]

Barking, be ye who I think ye be?

Hmmm perhaps? Do I know ye? I was an early days member...and had a bad habit of lurking and then falling completely out of existence. I was wayward tempest, now its been so damn long I dont remember names. I remember OWD and Rinoa...trying to think though were you under a different name?

Um lets see...I did make this..

But alas thats not even accurate anymore. Because with what they've given it isn't about players choice its about who can embrace what was given to them through the whole compliation and who would rather wear headphones and discuss the symbolism of pink ribbons and how long two people look at each other. He should have just handed Cloud to Tifa and not given the player a choice after he stabbed Aerith...oh wait....

People believe in what makes them comfortable.

Indeed. And I'd have no problem with that if they would just stop shoving their beliefs as truth when actual facts prove differently. And I've seen those facts listed in this thread again and again. And I too have yet to see them countered. And since I'm pulling old pics from photobucket I would confirm that diagnosis as...

 

[null.]

Ryu is always Ryu.

I remember that pic, but not who made it. Dang, you must have been around a long ass time ago. Like way back when OWD wasn't the Elder Statesman yet.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, Ryu is always Ryu.

But I do have quite a quick way of determining if ye be who I think ye be- How's your kid?

 

[Barking Moon]

Heh no I not be who you think I be...if indeed that person has a kid...as I do not. But tis nice to meet you all the same! NC native?