The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Dawnbreaker]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

hai guys wots goin on in dis thrad?

I don't think I did that right. >_>

Anyways, who is he destined for? My honest opinion is neither. Cloud always seems set on his own life, his own angst, his own purpose, that he seems unable to maintain a real relationship. It would take shit-loads of therapy for him to be able to properly love.

As for the whole Tifa-Aerith, (I'm assuming avoiding the obvious point that Aerith being dead kills that triangle) I always did think Tifa was more suited to him. Though I can say I see why people pair him with Aerith. It's not such a crazy pairing. They go on a date. He rescues her. Etc. There's romance there, but I do agree that I feel that romance is half from the Zack involvement.

Aerith and Zack belonged together and Cloud and Tifa belong together. I just don't see any of them ever together, for various reasons.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Vampire Hunter D link=topic=53.msg9396#msg9396 date=1232383983]
Anyways, who is he destined for? My honest opinion is neither. Cloud always seems set on his own life, his own angst, his own purpose, that he seems unable to maintain a real relationship. It would take shit-loads of therapy for him to be able to properly love.[/quote]

Can I ask where exactly you're getting this from? Even when Cloud does his fekakte walkabout, he's doing it in the name of trying to protect Tifa and the kids. Cloud's got a purpose, but it's not a purpose for his own sake.

As for the whole Tifa-Aerith, (I'm assuming avoiding the obvious point that Aerith being dead kills that triangle) I always did think Tifa was more suited to him. Though I can say I see why people pair him with Aerith. It's not such a crazy pairing. They go on a date. He rescues her. Etc. There's romance there, but I do agree that I feel that romance is half from the Zack involvement.

Pairing them together in the fanon isn't out there, but it really is in the continuity, especially with what we learn later on.

Aerith and Zack belonged together and Cloud and Tifa belong together. I just don't see any of them ever together, for various reasons.

Could you elaborate?

 

[Vorona]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Vampire Hunter D link=topic=53.msg9396#msg9396 date=1232383983]
Aerith and Zack belonged together and Cloud and Tifa belong together. I just don't see any of them ever together, for various reasons.
[/quote]

Awww now see, call me a stereotypical sucker for happy endings, but that's one of the appeals of Cloti and Zerith to me. All 4 people end up happy

 

[A]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Does anyone know about that essence line Clerith's use? Something about... Aerith entering Cloud's dream, and she has seen through the essence of Cloud, thus she finds out the real him??

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Butterfly, they talked about that some pages back. That quote is saying the same as all the other quotes that were in Ultimania about that; Aerith discovered the existence of the real Cloud, and that he was not who he claimed to be.

But she didn't know what was behind his false personality, she just saw through his facade to the fact that there was a 'real Cloud'.

 

[Frostwave]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

If the Cerii claim that Aerith knew who the real Cloud was, let them show an example of her demonstrating that knowledge.

I'd like to hear them explain how Aerith gets to intimately know him, as they claim she does, between her date, where she tells him she wants to meet the real him, and the moment of the game that 'essence' quote is from, which is only shortly after.

Don't you think SE would have had to show such an important thing happening?

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I'd like to hear them explain how Aerith gets to intimately know him, as they claim she does, between her date, where she tells him she wants to meet the real him, and the moment of the game that 'essence' quote is from, which is only shortly after.

And since they love Maiden so much, I'd like them to explain that while keeping the fact that Aerith admits that she doesn't know the real Cloud in Maiden until after the LS scene. Even after that, she hasn't met the real Cloud personally, she has only seen what he's really like.

 

[Frostwave]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Apparently, according to Anastar, Aerith demonstates that she does know Cloud in Maiden.

Her impression was that even though he wasn't very social, there was some cheerfulness about him.

She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him.

When I asked her about the second quote, she replied that since Cloud showed confidence after the Lifestream event, that it was part of his character. Nevermind the fact that he only shows confidence because he cleared his head, and that it's still not one of his biggest personality traits.

And about the 'awkward' and 'simplistic' description?

According to Anastar, it was something she already knew, even though she doesn't describe him that way until after Cloud regains his true self.

Are 'awkward' and 'full of confidence' similar at all?

When I brought up the line about Aerith being happy she 'now knew the real Cloud', this is what I got for my trouble. I don't know what I was expecting, but...

Aerith also says in the Date scene that she wanted to meet the real Cloud and that she was searching for him, even though the FFVII Ultimania Omega says that she perceived who the real Cloud was beneath the surface. So I take Aerith's words about "meeting" Cloud in the Date scene to mean that she wants to actually see Cloud *act* like his true self, as opposed to simply sensing that true person beneath the surface.

If that's what she meant in the Date scene, then I take her words in MoTP about "knowing the real Cloud" to mean practically the same thing - simply that he's now *acting* like his true self, so that she no longer has to sense it beneath the surface.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Aerith also says in the Date scene that she wanted to meet the real Cloud and that she was searching for him, even though the FFVII Ultimania Omega says that she perceived who the real Cloud was beneath the surface. So I take Aerith's words about "meeting" Cloud in the Date scene to mean that she wants to actually see Cloud *act* like his true self, as opposed to simply sensing that true person beneath the surface.

If that's what she meant in the Date scene, then I take her words in MoTP about "knowing the real Cloud" to mean practically the same thing - simply that he's now *acting* like his true self, so that she no longer has to sense it beneath the surface.

D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Can I ask where exactly you're getting this from? Even when Cloud does his fekakte walkabout, he's doing it in the name of trying to protect Tifa and the kids. Cloud's got a purpose, but it's not a purpose for his own sake.

Well, let’s see, he’s got serious mental issues. That’s bad for a relationship. The guy wasn’t even sure he who he was. After figuring that out, he’s know having weird visions of Sephiroth (aka AC), running away from everything (re: Tifa’s spiel) and he can’t even smile or when he finally does, it’s barely.

He needs help. Serious help.

Pairing them together in the fanon isn't out there, but it really is in the continuity, especially with what we learn later on.

Don’t follow. Explain.

Could you elaborate?

Cloud and Tifa were childhood friends (sort of). There’s a bond there he and Aerith don’t have. Zack was Aerith’s first love though I don’t know if it’s the other way around. Tifa never seemed to show any interest in Zack (that I could see).

As for the “never ending up together” I think the Aerith and Zack should be obvious, unless you mean in death. As for Tifa and Cloud, I think both would need huge amount of personal growth to make that happen. Tifa’s too needy, Cloud’s too angsty, and there’s little to build upon from there. Loving someone and making a life with them is really not the same thing.

Mind you, if SE actually properly focused on the relationship rather than “Run, Cloud, run” you might see it…but I doubt it.

 

[Shadowfox]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg9385#msg9385 date=1232381558]
I think it was the Crisis Core Ultimania. Are there scans of it (the character profiles) online?[/quote]

I found some here:
http://pics.livejournal.com/nunuu/gallery/00014t72?.view=grid

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Vampire Hunter D link=topic=53.msg9486#msg9486 date=1232403975]Well, let’s see, he’s got serious mental issues. That’s bad for a relationship. The guy wasn’t even sure he who he was. After figuring that out, he’s know having weird visions of Sephiroth (aka AC), running away from everything (re: Tifa’s spiel) and he can’t even smile or when he finally does, it’s barely.[/quote]

Cloud 'running away' was, I'll admit, a dumb move, but he wasn't running away from 'everything', and he did have a good, if misguided reason (protecting his family) for doing it.

He needs help. Serious help.

I think he's getting it.

Don’t follow. Explain.

Cloud being seriously romantically interested in Aerith after what we learn later does not follow in either a logical or narrative fashion.

As for Tifa and Cloud, I think both would need huge amount of personal growth to make that happen. Tifa’s too needy, Cloud’s too angsty, and there’s little to build upon from there. Loving someone and making a life with them is really not the same thing.

Wait, Tifa, needy? Does not follow.

Mind you, if SE actually properly focused on the relationship rather than “Run, Cloud, run” you might see it…but I doubt it.
[/quote]

Well, considering Cloud's reaction to Deepground was to first get the children to a safe place and then confront the trouble, I think he's over the 'run' thing.

 

[Rinoa]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

He needs help. Serious help.

if SE actually properly focused on the relationship

AC was a string of messy plot devices to display Cloud acting the way that most fans associated with him (confused and emo, yet kicks ass). It was also an excuse to bring Sephiroth back, amongst other conflicts. All this leads to a happy ending - again. Filed under script writing 101.

IIRC the writers admitted to this in Reunion Files or something.

In any case, I'm seeing a whole lot of self-made assumptions and a lack of facts to back them up. FF7 isn't about relationships. It's about something bigger. Once you realize that, what's common sense - when it comes to who is paired with who - should soon follow.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Shadowfox link=topic=53.msg9510#msg9510 date=1232406029]
[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg9385#msg9385 date=1232381558]
I think it was the Crisis Core Ultimania. Are there scans of it (the character profiles) online?[/quote]

I found some here:
http://pics.livejournal.com/nunuu/gallery/00014t72?.view=grid
[/quote]
Thank you, that's where it was. It's on the first page of Zack's profile with the picture of Aerith:

??????????????????????????????
"A platonic love, where they are both fulfilled simply by being together."

I think, given what comes before it, it's about their relationship not really having a sexual side to it.

That essence line seems like a rewording of the same basic line mentioned a couple of times throughout the book.

?????????????????????????
She seems to have perceived that the Cloud in front of her wasn't his original self. (P.29)

??????????????????????????????????????????????
While sensing that an overlap between Cloud and Zack, Aerith perceives that that isn't the original Cloud. (P.31)

The other one seems to be mostly a different version of that.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

So, the 'platonic love' quote was from Zack's CC profile, but where was this one found?

"They attract to each other by mutual feelings similar to friendship, because they're both juvenile, if you call it love..."

Or is this the same quote? It was brought up to me as being two different ones. I suppose it says the same basic thing as the other one, though.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

...Has that translator never even heard of sentence structure? I believe that's the Nomura 'young love' quote, but egads is that a hackjob.

In any case, Juniper, "Aerith, the girl whom he met at the slum’s church. The existence of the girl, who had earnestly come to love Zack with sincerity, eventually became irreplaceable to him." should shut up whoever is trotting out this nonsense.

Or the couple mentions in Aerith's profile. http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/604/aerith-gainsborough-character-profile-p48-51/#more-604

And if Zack and Aerith are too young, Squall and Rinoa and Tidus and Yuna are too young.

Oh, Hitobito, I see you got the shroudypoo treatment. Don't let his WoI and endless nattering nitpicks bother you. The buzzing of flies, that one is.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

"They attract to each other by mutual feelings similar to friendship, because they're both juvenile, if you call it love..."

That was the CCU again. Before the guide for each chapter is a little blurb, coincidently written by Benny Matsuyama. Benny seems to tend to write long complex sentences, and this is one of them (not very long, but kind of complex).

?????????????????????????
[call 'love'] - [to] - [each/mutually young], [friendship] - [similar to] [drawn/attracted to (each other)] [feelings]

A little easier to understand:

[each (too?) young to call it 'love'], [similar to friendship] [feelings, of being attracted to each other]

The whole thing is modifying the bolded part (feelings of being attacted/drawn to each other). It is a little tricky to work out, maybe. But I don't see where 'because they're...' and 'if you call...' came from. And 'mutual' seems to have jumped to a different place. Although that 'each other' in the 'drawn to' could be translated as 'mutual', but this already as 'to each other'.

Ryu: I've spoken to him before, and decided not to take him that seriously since then. He just plays around with words but says nothing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Why the hell is Benny writing anything, anymore?

And seriously, what's the proper syntax for that sentence because it really doesn't make that much sense. Is it saying they're in love or not?

I have no idea what that sentence is even saying

I also find it kind of stupid that they'd label their relationship platonic too. It just seems so unrealistic that they'd have a committed yet completely platonic relationship, especially regarding with how dangerous Zack's line of work is.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I'm not really sure if 'young' is meant to be talking about Zack and Aerith, or the feelings? It does seem to be modifying that, but it's kind of long-winded. But Japanese likes long-winded

Of course it's a platonic relationship. Aerith is a delicate little flower Not like that whore Tifa. ~Koibito~ to practically every man she's ever met.

On a different note, I bought that "Bad Twin" spin-off book from Lost. I still haven't read it, though. I've been put off reading it by hearing comments from the creators of the TV series badmouthing it. Basically saying it's worthless. If it's not going to tell me anything interesting about the main series, I don't know if I can be bothered reading it.

Yet somehow, this still managed to get written. Written, endorsed, and published. But is, apparently, not of much value when it comes to understanding Lost.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The sentence was definitely weird, that's why I asked about it. I figured it was a translation done by the girls at C/A forums, because I've seen their stuff before. Like the one that calls Tifa an 'important woman in the family' rather than an important woman and also a member of Cloud's family'.

Thanks for the help, guys.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

The mother of your children is an important woman in your family, as well as an important woman and a member of your family.

When people whore out semantics, don't be afraid to set up a vice sting on the opposite rhetorical streetcorner.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

When did Amano draw his art for VII? Did he draw his C/A art before or after Tifa's conception?

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Does it matter? He draws lots of people together. He has an artwork, titled "Serenade," of Squall & Selphie where the two of them are watching the sunset (I think?). How ~romantic~. Using concept art/ideas as the ultimate proofz is silly. Example & OT: didn't Tolkien originally plan on having Aragorn and Eowyn hook-up?

But if you're just simply curious, then... um, I don't have an answer.

 

[juniper]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Yes, I was just curious. This chick FF_Goddess claims that Amano was still very involved with VII, but I thought that he was in New York and France busy with exhibitions, and all he did was help design the world map, do promotional artwork, and design the title logo.

I thought if I could find something that could shut her up about Amano's glorious C/A art, it'd be nice.

Ultimately pointless, but nice in the short term.

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

As far as I know, Amano was not involved at all. I heard that he doesn't even know the outcome of the story when he draws those arts. He just draws/creates swirly art, doesn't he? He doesn't have anything to do with the story/writing. Some peeps here would have more info. FF_Goddess doesn't know what she's talking about, as usual.

Gonna be mean here, but do people honestly listen to that chick? I always thought that most people in this fandom regarded her as a joke.