The General Turks Worship Thread

[CameoAmalthea]

Yes, hormones will do that (because of a medical condition I had wild hormone fluctuations just with periods before I got on my IUD) to the point I started balling when watching Disney's "Bolt" because the dog was so cute (and then later because the plot was so moving).

But from the complaints on LJ, it seems that all the female are like that, even the non pregnant ones. I haven't read the whole thing, but is that the case?

Oh, and out of curiosity, did it clash with your head cannon this much before you've endured my seemingly endless treatise's on the virtues of Rufus Shinra? (If I've had any impact on that, then I feel a slight sense of victory, because I get a kick out of convincing people of things).

Although, honestly, unintelligent people cannot successfully commit corporate espionage for years while still in their teens, especially with the Turks as their adversary. Although I will say Rufus had his stupid moments during that whole episode, but he did work with what he had and I admire his willingness to put everything on the line.

As for being completely lacking in regard for human life...I can see where people might get that impression...

 

[Morello]

I keep missing the conversation here, but I should have more time this week. I'm really enjoying this Elena conversation - thanks. I could never avoid her punch in Icicle Inn, and that made me love her as a character. She can deck Cloud - 'nough said. I've been watching the BBC's "Parade's End" recently, and I vote Adelaide Clemens for Elena:

Apart from having the wrong colour eyes I think she'd be perfect - she can do cute, but she can do really tough as well.

(I agree about the hormones. I used to weep over almost anything involving children or animals all through both pregnancies and for quite a while afterwards. I'm over it now.)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Perfect casting, Cherry. Not only has she got the haircut, but she's got the Look.

 

[Soakette]

Wow! I really love this Elena discussion! I don't really think about her much cause my mind is always RUDE! RUDE! RUDE! RUDE!.

But anyway, for me, she is not weepy! She is tough. Like other people have said , she has her cute moments which I like but I can't picture her crying. I always think that if she is feeling some kind of negative emotion it would be anger or revenge, or both because I think she loves to kick people's ass! And she's damn good at it! She does have her feminine side, like how her nails are in ACC and her cute crush on Tseng, but I wouldn't underestimate her.The only time I can see her crying is if Tseng or one of the Turks died. I think she is a strong women who can hold in her emotions. That's what Turks have to do. They can't be crying everywhere. lol. As for the clumsiness I don't by that either. She's great at shooting a gun and is great at martial arts, if she's sneaking around somewhere and spying on someone she can't be knocking shit over, that would make her a terrible Turk. So no, she is not clumsy imo. I know we haven't got much out of the Turks Bio Novel but after reading the latest chapter with Elena, I liked her even more. She is just badass!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Soak, you're back! Where did you go?

 

[Soakette]

Just dealing with some personal bullshit mostly. But I am back! And ready to talk about The Turks and their greatness!

 

[Fangu]

Spoiler: Another spoiler covered rant because off topic

(I agree about the hormones. I used to weep over almost anything involving children or animals all through both pregnancies and for quite a while afterwards. I'm over it now.)

Totally off topic comment, but I'm glad how you say it passes. Being emotional is really energy consuming. I couldn't handle being upset/ sad/ feeling involved about every little thing involving kids and animals. I've seen status updates on Facebook that are links to some 7 year old kid losing his teddy bear or hamster down a water drain or something and people respond with " omg my poor mommys heart " and I'm like WTF? How exhausting it must be to get upset over just about anything. So yeah if that only lasts as long as the lack of sleep and constantly smelling like a daycare center, then I guess I could cope with it.

For me, crying is something you do when you're having problems expressing yourself, and it's deeply frustrating. I don't want to cry more than I usually do.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

The only time I can see her crying is if Tseng or one of the Turks died.

Well actually, the only time I've had Elena cry is in exactly the situation, when she thought Tseng had been killed, right before she goes after Cloud and co.

But the strange thing is I sort of meant for the crying to be a sort of strength. When she breaks down it's her and Rufus Shinra in the room. Both love Tseng, both are grieving, she cries, Rufus doesn't and in my mind Elena is the stronger person because she has the strength to let go and face what she's feeling without regard for how it will look. Rufus "never cries, never bleeds" Shinra isn't strong enough for that, and envies her for it. (Although I'm not sure if that comes across).

For those curious that fic

Spoiler: it's here

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7677996/2/Life-is-Stronger-Than-Death here http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6237528/4/Pedigree From Elena's point of view and Rufus's, respectively. (Disregard the fact these are several chapters in, both stories work as a series of one shots).

If he's sneaking around somewhere and spying on someone she can't be knocking shit over, that would make her a terrible Turk

What about Reno?

Reno is depicted as clumsy, both in fanfic and in AC/ACC, but do people say "a Turk can't be clumsy" in regards to Reno?

Spoiler: As for Reno

I know some people are annoyed with Reno's comic relief status in ACC, but I for one find it believable, in part because my friend Lee is like that (he once knocked a brand new camera out of my hands because he talks with his hands when he speaks and knocked into me, and he has accidentally hit people in the face with a prop EMR) but he's still very capable as a person. I think Reno could be a loud mouth who can come off as idiotic or clumsy, and still be a stone cold killer and highly capable Turk. Also, ACC Reno showed a lot of capability as a helicopter pilot.

I guess I worry that people might accept that Reno can be clumsy and still be a Turk, but not Elena. Do we expect more of Elena because we don't want her to be weaker because "she's a girl", and we don't want female characters who fall into the stereotype of emotional women.

Spoiler: Crying, bleeding, and other things strong women shouldn't do

I'm clumsy, not over the top or comically clumsy, but in gym I'd be most likely to get in the face with a ball. I do Japanese swordsmanship and in the history of our club I was the only one to get injured. Currently I have a large bruise on my side from an elevator closing on me. Maybe it's not clumsiness on my part so much as bad luck, but I don't have awesome reflexes and end up getting hurt sometimes.

Yes, I'm not a Turk (I'd make a terrible Turk, I'm the most unobservant person ever except when it comes to observations about people, then I'm frighteningly perceptive). But all the same, sometimes I feel as a woman I'm reinforcing some sort of terrible cliche because my husband has had to catch me sometimes, although to be fair, I have highly capable female friends that have also looked after me. It's not that I need a man to save me, so much that I sometimes have needed someone to look after me. Honestly, a lot of my friends seem as keen to look after me as they keen to let me be in charge.

It's a strange thing, I think I'm capable, I like the idea of being strong and independent, but I could see myself as someone who would find up kidnapped by Don Corneo and in need of rescue. (Although I might be able to talk my way out of the situation).

For most of my life I've been weepy naturally, more so when hormonal (I shudder to think what I'd be like pregnant), but in general prone to cry. When most people would get upset or angry, I'd just start crying. Not to put on a show or because I'm weak, but because that's how my emotions are wired.

I hated it, because crying only makes things worse.

Like in Sophmore year I was trying to explain to a math teacher that I wanted to be moved up to honors because I was bored in the regular class and being in all honors classes was very important to me. As an orphan, once I graduated high school I'd have nothing and no support, so all I had in the world was what I could earn and top marks in the toughest classes could mean a better chance at scholarships, at survival. I tried to explain this to the teacher calmly, rationally, because she had to understand what this meant to me, but my throat wound up clenched and I wound up crying.

No one takes you seriously when you cry and when you can't speak you can't make your point.

For years, any argument would end in me crying because I just could not get upset without crying, or even if other people were upset with me I'd start crying because I hated to be the cause of any trouble.

I've managed to get this under control recently. I stopped crying at any conflict, and haven't cried in about four months now even in situations that I know would ordinarily drive me to tears. I've actually managed to get angry instead and that was empowering. All the same, there are times I miss crying, because to stop the tears I sometimes just shut down my emotions and speak in this absolute calm, businesslike manner that inevitably leads to people thinking I'm unfeeling and condescending which doesn't make things better either.

I think it's a difficult balance to strike, when to be emotional and when to be tough.

Obviously, on duty Elena can't afford to be weepy. Neither can most people. Personally, I hope to be a lawyer (which is sort of like being a Turk, but it's fight with the pen rather than the gun) and being weepy would not be acceptable. I can be professional, frightening even, but I still see myself as someone who might cry sometimes. So I guess it's the same with Elena. I wouldn't want her to be over the top useless, but I see her as having her soft side, her insecurities, and her failures.

Then on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes I worry that when I write tough women I'm being too "strong woman" cliche. Like I have an OC Turk Jackie, and she's kind of a badass but I worry that people won't buy it. That it wil be over the top to have her do something heroic. I comfort myself with the rational that I was originally going to have Veld do exactly the same thing and switching in a female character should make no difference.

 

[Soakette]

What about Reno?

Reno is depicted as clumsy, both in fanfic and in AC/ACC, but do people say "a Turk can't be clumsy" in regards to Reno?

The only time in AC/C that I remember Reno being "clumsy" is when he smacks Rude in the face with his EMR. I wouldn't classify that as being clumsy. Everyone has those kinds of oops moments. And I think square just wanted something funny to happen.

A clumsy person is someone who is lacking physical coordination, skill, or grace. Reno isn't clumsy in skill or coordination, you can see that when he fights. He is extremely skilled and knows how to kick someone's ass. I hate going into great detail with Turks because you don't know much about them to make the assumptions if they are clumsy or whatever your assumption of their personality is. From what I see in AC/C yes, he is loud mouthed and says idiotic things but I have never thought of being clumsy. I have read lots of fanfics that make him so stupid and clumsy, it just pisses me off a little bit. No company would hire a Turk that is stupid, or clumsy, or lack skill. It's just not possible to me. How can you get a mission done with a person like that? Reno And Rude (according to BC) have the highest success rate of any of the Turks, Now if Reno was anything clumsy then I don't think he can accomplish that.

I think Turks are smart and competent. Clumsiness and such doesn't fit into that category for me and unless square says so or I see Reno knocking down lamps or whatever just by walking past them, then I won't believe it.

But we all have our head canons so To Each Their Own.

I am however interested to know how the other forum members feel about clumsy Reno.

P.S Sorry if my post seems messed up, I have a hard time trying to say what I mean and explain myself.

 

[Fangu]

I can relate to what Soak is saying here. I have to add though, I don't use AC as a source, my dislike for that movie is steadily increasing. I can understand why they made the choices they did because they needed the manuscript to work, but using AC as a character description source - not doing it anymore. I'd rather use the OG and BC, and in those sources, Reno is 'the cool dude', which is sorta like the opposite of clumsy, in my opinion. He moves slow and aloof and he speaks slang, and that's about all he'll let you in on, cus he's just too cool to care.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I have to chip in and say that I never saw Reno as clumsy in AC. He does get shut out of Healen Lodge by Cloud, but that's Cloud, the world's greatest swordsman; there's no shame in being outmaneuvered by his fancy footwork. Reno also gets a kid's fingers stuck up his nostrils, accidentally hits Rude with with his baton and steps on Rude's sunglasses, and falls out of a disabled, plummetting helicopter - but like Fangu said, all of these were done for comic effect, and none of them show him being physically clumsy. Getting bucked off a wounded helicopter isn't the same thing as falling over your own two feet. On the other hand, he can scale a building like a spider and fights quite gracefully against the Remnants, and he definitely moves with a lot of physical confidence. In BC he outfights a small army single-handed, and is known as 'the fastest of the Turks'.

IMO, fanfics that write Reno as clumsy and goofy are writing him completely out of character. The Turks are all athletes; they have to be. As everyone keeps saying, there's no room in the Department of Administrative Research for clumsy, foolish prats.

Another thing I never understood is why Reno and Rude get mocked for being outclassed by the Remnants. Tifa also had her butt handed to her by Loz, but nobody ever makes fun of her for that, despite the fact that she is meant to be stronger and more capable than either Rude or Reno.

 

[Fangu]

Ok long rant ahead

Then on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes I worry that when I write tough women I'm being too "strong woman" cliche. Like I have an OC Turk Jackie, and she's kind of a badass but I worry that people won't buy it. That it wil be over the top to have her do something heroic. I comfort myself with the rational that I was originally going to have Veld do exactly the same thing and switching in a female character should make no difference.

To comment on the last part first, I think that's kinda what happened with the manuscript to FF XIII. Fang was originally supposed to be a man, and I don't know how late they made that change, but some of the stuff she does and says, are things I would imagine to be said or done by a male instead. Which makes her a really interesting character.

The most notable for me is that she doesn't seem to worry as much as the typical female character, or, at least you don't see it. She doesn't have that many thoughts in her head at the same time. I'm not saying men are less complex, but they're better at separating the important tasks from the less important tasks, and they take their time. Also they're not as much into pleasing people as females can be. They're more careless, IMO. If they do have a problem, they seek the needed advice, then either gets over it/ handle it, or they decide it's not worth bothering with. Or, of course, they push aside their issues and let them simmer, until one they they simply have to deal with them.

So going back to Fang, she has her worries and tasks she needs to do, but you don't see it as well as you do with the female characters. You see it when she either fights or shows affection for those she loves. She's a 'man of action', I guess.

Now going back to writing strong women - it's a bit of a tricky task. Because a strong woman doesn't necessarily share the traits of a strong man, IMO. We treat people different by amongst other things what gender they are, and for a woman to interact clever with others, she has to act differently than a man would.

It's hard finding real life comparisons, but I imagine some of the female top leaders or top politicians to be good role models. I think it's about keeping your calm a lot, to be firm, steady to your principles and also to not be wiped out by good argumenters/ opponents. Wise women talk less and listen more, so when they do talk, their opinions are valuated.

'Strong' doesn't have to imply 'heroic' though. It's a tricky thing because everybody has their weaknesses, and a person who are considered a joker and an idiot can be the most loyal friend in time of need. One of my favorite film moments ever is in the Danish movie "Nattevakten" where this seemingly idiotic, jackassy guy who isn't exactly a perfect citizen ends up cutting off his own thumb to save the life of his friend. A seemingly heroic/ strong character isn't necessarily heroic when it counts. I believe principles and fearlessness to be key words, the ability to act on instinct when it matters. Not saying a character has to be unsympathetic to be heroic, not at all - but I think it helps balancing out a character and makes him or her believable. If a woman has struggled in her life, made bad decisions and done bad things, maybe she feels a stronger need to repent; maybe the need to be loyal and make things right can drive her to heroism. Or, the need to fight for your friends; Brothers in Arms and all of that. People stuck in the same situations, ie soldiers, who works a lot in teams, form bonds unlike all others.

Those could be reasons for self sacrifice, as I believe heroism to be. It's a very interesting topic. (I left out everything involving fighting for your children, because most mothers, I believe, would fight to the death for their child.)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I really enjoyed reading that, Fangu.

 

[Kassi]

Sorry I'm kind of skimming, I don't have a lot of time at the moment to get caught up, but I saw some stuff I love that Fangu said about Reno not being clumsy. My headcanon-Reno jives with that, considering how many times I've lovingly pored over the ACC fight scenes. I feel he has such amazing balance and dexterity. Kicking at the level of someone's face, getting blocked and not falling seems to me to require phenomenal physical presence and training, not to mention everything else he does. When he clocks Rude in the face with the EMR I think of it as him being intensely in the battle-moment; and when Cloud locks him out I think of it like -- well, Cloud's a frickin' bad-ass and the only one in the world to defeat Sephiroth.

Although I super-like ACC. It still to this day gets me through tough emotional times. I know not everyone shares my tastes, but I'm fine with that. I like what I like. If I was in a 50s US high school with ACC, I would totally want to be pinned with it.

...I digress. That's not why I came here today. I came here to share NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN TURK FANART OH MY HOLY!!

WORLD PREMIERE OF FRESH HOT TURK ACTION!

First, an illustration my friend Amanda Hughes did for my fanfiction 'A Lazy Ocean Hugs the Shore':

Spoiler: Cloud x Rude

Amanda also read my Reno/Schala fic 'Blue Fire' and without me knowing it she did these sketches:

Spoiler: Reno

Spoiler: Schala (sorry, I know she's not a Turk, but she's with the Reno, above!)

...I totally blame her royal blueness for Reno's smug grin, and him for her Mona Lisa smile!

Anyway, this certainly helped me feel better in a stressful time, and I can't tell you what it feels like to see a picture of something I imagined in my head and put words around. Especially Schala in her cheongsam from Wutai. I cried.

<3
Kassi

 

[Drax]

Pretty big one, might want to open in new window:

Spoiler

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I like.

 

[Soakette]

Okay, So I haven't posted any pics lately so here is some I have collected! Sorry if there are any that have been posted already. Its late and I'm tired. Enjoy!

Spoiler: Reno

Spoiler: Monday Morning

Spoiler: Reno&Rod

Spoiler: Reno&Tseng

Spoiler: Reno&Elena

Spoiler: Reno&Rude

Spoiler: Elena

Spoiler: Elena & Tseng

Spoiler: Tseng

Spoiler: Tseng&Rufus

Spoiler: Vincent

Spoiler: When Vincent rescues Elena & Tseng

Spoiler: Okay, Everybody in? Say CHEESE!

Spoiler: This is just amazing to me!

Spoiler: All the Turks are shirtless! Time for sexy party! NSFW

Spoiler: Misc Turks

Spoiler: Also, This one is just for me <3

 

[Kassi]

ILU Soak! Oh, this is so what I needed, especially the Vitamin Reno! YUM! REEEEENO

[happy sigh]

If I were of a smoking inclination I'd light up in a totally satisfied way now.

<3
Kassi

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Young Rufus is so cute! And because canon says he's 18 (baby faced as all get out) at the beginning of BC, it's perfectly fine for me to think that and enjoy the Rufus/Tseng (even if he does look way young!)

Oh that shirtless picture! I shared that on another forum. I really like the way the depict Elena. Her breasts look natural and she's posed exactly the same as everyone else, a mirror image to Tseng. Also, I love the mirroring because couples tend to mirror each other.

Oh and does anyone have any young Veld pictures, or Vincent/Veld, I feel Vincent/Veld is an under appreciated as a pairing.

And I love the everyone say Cheese picture. I want to see if I can get a cosplay picture based on that.

 

[Fangu]

Oh my, Soak!! I love all of those!!! Amazing finds, I had to steal one of them and put it in my signature because it is so fascinating to watch

That Vincent one. Love love love it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That was a great treat to wake up to. Thanks, Soak. I love them all, but my three favourites are the topless Turks, Vincent rescusing Tseng and Elena, and the beautiful Tseng and Elena portrait.

 

[Lex]

That dancing cast is mesmerising. And now so is Fangu's sig.

 

[Unlucky]

^I've seen that on YT. I think they were dancing to 'Bad Romance'.

Found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-YjCJq23k

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Crimsonsun has been hard at work again. Right now I can't upload pictures to photobucket, so here's the link:

http://crimson-sun.tumblr.com/image/31570435964

He's the only artist I know who regularly does art of Veld.

 

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Spoiler: shall we talk about this?