CameoAmalthea
Pro Adventurer
Following that blog now, thanks Lic!
Except they do give him moments which make him, if not more sympathetic more... intriguing than the rest of the executives, such
My question is why have Rufus have any redeeming qualities if he's meant to represent Shinra? Actually, why have Rufus at all? They didn't have to kill off President Shinra Sr. and they gave the players plenty of reasons to hate him. He was the embodiment of Shinra, so if the game wanted to give us someone to represent Shinra as a villain why have this character of Rufus Shinra? Why make him handsome, charming, and brave?
I agree with everything Licorice said about Machiavelli. For those interested in the relevant
Licorice does a good job surmising Machiavelli's point, but I'd like to add that what Machiavelli is saying goes beyond "it's better to be loved than fears" what he's saying is that it's best to both loved and feared, but if you can't have both go with fear because it's a easier stragety, but don't be hated.
I think a lot of people when they hear the phrase "rule by fear" immediately jump ideas of tyranny and abuse, but that's not what Machiavelli is advocating. Rather, the idea is to be loved and feared if possible, and never hated and feared. So that isn't wanton abuse or displays of power of power to the detriment of the populace, but force where justified to keep people in line.
I think Rufus's philosophy is much
Rufus is understandable, where as the other Shinra executives aren't nearly so sympathetic. What happened in Sector 7 alone is enough to make you hate the entire board, but Rufus had no part in that.
The other thing about Rufus in the OG is that he really doesn't do anything.
In BC does things like
and
so he's manipulative.
Then you have his suggestion on
Rufus is so callus.
In his role as
he's
So, right so far we have manipulative, callus, and cunning. We can also add being a general rude jerk to to the list, as seen
and it gets
This sums up my feelings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHES1lHZn10
So if there's reasons to hate Rufus or see him as villainous, I think they're more in Before Crisis than the original game. Although Before Crisis is a prequel to the Original Game, it went into development with Advent Children in mind, so the characterization of Rufus in BC should be consistant with AC. While it's arguable that AC retcons Rufus's characterization in the OG to make him less of a villain, BC and AC are congruous, this is the character they meant to portray.
Rufus is someone who has it in him to be a terrible human being and subsequent entries to the compilation don't simply make him more sympathetic or nicer. If anything, taking the compilation as a whole, BC, OG, CoS, AC he seems consistant as a character but not stagnant. He develops as a character, in BC, and during CoS. Rufus suffers a lot during CoS and grows as a person, just as he grows as a person during BC, which is why he's actually a better person in the OG than the first half of BC. (Seriously, compared to BC, OG Rufus is great).
Except they do give him moments which make him, if not more sympathetic more... intriguing than the rest of the executives, such
going to face WEAPON at Junon.
Then in Costa Del Sol, you get the feeling that members of the general public like him.
Then in Costa Del Sol, you get the feeling that members of the general public like him.
My question is why have Rufus have any redeeming qualities if he's meant to represent Shinra? Actually, why have Rufus at all? They didn't have to kill off President Shinra Sr. and they gave the players plenty of reasons to hate him. He was the embodiment of Shinra, so if the game wanted to give us someone to represent Shinra as a villain why have this character of Rufus Shinra? Why make him handsome, charming, and brave?
I agree with everything Licorice said about Machiavelli. For those interested in the relevant
Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated
Licorice does a good job surmising Machiavelli's point, but I'd like to add that what Machiavelli is saying goes beyond "it's better to be loved than fears" what he's saying is that it's best to both loved and feared, but if you can't have both go with fear because it's a easier stragety, but don't be hated.
I think a lot of people when they hear the phrase "rule by fear" immediately jump ideas of tyranny and abuse, but that's not what Machiavelli is advocating. Rather, the idea is to be loved and feared if possible, and never hated and feared. So that isn't wanton abuse or displays of power of power to the detriment of the populace, but force where justified to keep people in line.
I think Rufus's philosophy is much
I don't think he'd support, for example, what happened to Corel and Sector 7. That kind of actions harms innocent civilians which breeds hatred. Hatred is dangerous, because it's difficult to control people who hate you.
Rather than killing hundreds of innocents to prove that he can as Scarlet might, Rufus seems more the sort to make an example of people who are actually guilty to assure the public that criminality and rebellion will not be public.
Berret and Tifa were terrorists, guilty of conspiring to commit acts of terrorism and carrying out operations which resulted in the mass murder of innocent civilians as well as Shinra personel. Rufus would be justified in killing them, his reasons for doing it were dishonest, but as Licorice points out, smart politically because it reassured the people that the government was doing something. At that point, Rufus needed to do all he could to prevent the populace from panicing.
Rather than killing hundreds of innocents to prove that he can as Scarlet might, Rufus seems more the sort to make an example of people who are actually guilty to assure the public that criminality and rebellion will not be public.
Berret and Tifa were terrorists, guilty of conspiring to commit acts of terrorism and carrying out operations which resulted in the mass murder of innocent civilians as well as Shinra personel. Rufus would be justified in killing them, his reasons for doing it were dishonest, but as Licorice points out, smart politically because it reassured the people that the government was doing something. At that point, Rufus needed to do all he could to prevent the populace from panicing.
Rufus is understandable, where as the other Shinra executives aren't nearly so sympathetic. What happened in Sector 7 alone is enough to make you hate the entire board, but Rufus had no part in that.
The other thing about Rufus in the OG is that he really doesn't do anything.
In BC does things like
Rufus
Father. No – President. It looks to me like our fight with AVALANCHE isn’t going well.
President Shinra
I don’t see why that should matter to you – you’re leaving, remember? (6)
Rufus
I’m the Vice President of this company. Of course it matters to me.
President Shinra
Well, that’s true, but…
Rufus
There’s something that’s been bothering me. How is it that AVALANCHE knows exactly where the Turks are going to be every single time? They’re getting their information from somewhere… or someone. Well, Veld?
Veld
……we’ll look into it.
Rufus
If this is the way things work around here, it’s no wonder AVALANCHE is getting the upper hand on us, President.
President Shinra
(Splutters) Do you have a problem with the way I’m running my company?
Rufus
I’m not saying that. I’m just saying you should move with caution.
President Shinra
Veld! Get to work! I want to see results, and I want to see them soon!
Father. No – President. It looks to me like our fight with AVALANCHE isn’t going well.
President Shinra
I don’t see why that should matter to you – you’re leaving, remember? (6)
Rufus
I’m the Vice President of this company. Of course it matters to me.
President Shinra
Well, that’s true, but…
Rufus
There’s something that’s been bothering me. How is it that AVALANCHE knows exactly where the Turks are going to be every single time? They’re getting their information from somewhere… or someone. Well, Veld?
Veld
……we’ll look into it.
Rufus
If this is the way things work around here, it’s no wonder AVALANCHE is getting the upper hand on us, President.
President Shinra
(Splutters) Do you have a problem with the way I’m running my company?
Rufus
I’m not saying that. I’m just saying you should move with caution.
President Shinra
Veld! Get to work! I want to see results, and I want to see them soon!
Rufus
It looks like this mission was a failure too, President.
President Shinra
(Makes a noncommittal noise)
Rufus
SOLDIER members getting kidnapped without any resistance… soldiers dropping like flies. It’s all too clear now that someone’s leaking information.
Veld
…...
Rufus
Well, President? How are you going to deal with this?
President Shinra
That’s supposed to be Veld’s job.
It looks like this mission was a failure too, President.
President Shinra
(Makes a noncommittal noise)
Rufus
SOLDIER members getting kidnapped without any resistance… soldiers dropping like flies. It’s all too clear now that someone’s leaking information.
Veld
…...
Rufus
Well, President? How are you going to deal with this?
President Shinra
That’s supposed to be Veld’s job.
so he's manipulative.
Then you have his suggestion on
President Shinra
How many years have you been trying to capture her with no success at all, Veld?!
Veld
We’re using all available resources to locate and capture her, sir.
Rufus
Send out the army, President. The Turks will only take up precious time and labour. (2) The Ancient won’t be able to put up much of a resistance if she’s got a bullet in her, will she?
How many years have you been trying to capture her with no success at all, Veld?!
Veld
We’re using all available resources to locate and capture her, sir.
Rufus
Send out the army, President. The Turks will only take up precious time and labour. (2) The Ancient won’t be able to put up much of a resistance if she’s got a bullet in her, will she?
Rufus is so callus.
In his role as
AVALANCHE conspirator
Rufus
Our plan was a success.
Fuhito
Yes. HQ was destroyed, and its leaders with it. They think they’ve destroyed AVALANCHE entirely.
Rufus
Hmph. Veld was starting to get too close to the truth. The surveillance around me was tight so I couldn’t do much, but… I shouldn’t have those problems anymore.
Our plan was a success.
Fuhito
Yes. HQ was destroyed, and its leaders with it. They think they’ve destroyed AVALANCHE entirely.
Rufus
Hmph. Veld was starting to get too close to the truth. The surveillance around me was tight so I couldn’t do much, but… I shouldn’t have those problems anymore.
So, right so far we have manipulative, callus, and cunning. We can also add being a general rude jerk to to the list, as seen
Rufus
You’re the one in charge of those flying contraptions…
Cid
Don’t call them contraptions. Those are my partners. That baby’s called the Tiny Bronco.
Rufus
I don’t care about the flying contraption’s name. Just what are you thinking? This is a rehearsal, not the real thing. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know that.
Cid
'Course I do. Just leave the Shin-Ra No. 26 to me!
Rufus
That’s right. That means this rehearsal doesn’t mean a thing.
Cid
Don’t you worry none about that. The sky was calling me and I answered, that’s all. What are you going to do but answer back?
Player
(Thought) That’s a true man of the sky right there. He’s just as legendary as I’ve heard.
Cid
Look, Vice President. Tell the executives this for me. I’m gonna be the first one up there to reach the moon. Wait for it!
Player
I’m cheering you on too, Cid.
Cid
Yeah! So you get it too, huh? What’s yer name?
Player
Rosalind, of the Turks. I’m acting as the President’s escort today.
Rufus
Hmph. Stupid. It’s all stupid.
Cid
Hey!
Rufus
I don’t care about this outer space stuff. My interests lie firmly on the ground. Our company should be there too.
Cid
Keh. Yer so young, but so cynical. Not like yer pop – that man's got dreams, see! He built the company from the ground up. See, the scope's of your respective visions is different, the scope!
Rufus
Hmph. Cid… Let’s drop the talk about my father, hmm?
Cid
Huh? That sounds like an engine. What are those guys doing?!
Player
They’re stealing the Tiny Bronco!
Cid
Like hell you will! That’s my baby! I’m not gonna let !%@#&* like you touch her!
Player
Cid! Wait! You’re the only astronaut in the world. If something happens to you, the launch can’t go on. I’ll go. Rufus, sir, I’ll be back soon.
Rufus
Whatever.
You’re the one in charge of those flying contraptions…
Cid
Don’t call them contraptions. Those are my partners. That baby’s called the Tiny Bronco.
Rufus
I don’t care about the flying contraption’s name. Just what are you thinking? This is a rehearsal, not the real thing. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know that.
Cid
'Course I do. Just leave the Shin-Ra No. 26 to me!
Rufus
That’s right. That means this rehearsal doesn’t mean a thing.
Cid
Don’t you worry none about that. The sky was calling me and I answered, that’s all. What are you going to do but answer back?
Player
(Thought) That’s a true man of the sky right there. He’s just as legendary as I’ve heard.
Cid
Look, Vice President. Tell the executives this for me. I’m gonna be the first one up there to reach the moon. Wait for it!
Player
I’m cheering you on too, Cid.
Cid
Yeah! So you get it too, huh? What’s yer name?
Player
Rosalind, of the Turks. I’m acting as the President’s escort today.
Rufus
Hmph. Stupid. It’s all stupid.
Cid
Hey!
Rufus
I don’t care about this outer space stuff. My interests lie firmly on the ground. Our company should be there too.
Cid
Keh. Yer so young, but so cynical. Not like yer pop – that man's got dreams, see! He built the company from the ground up. See, the scope's of your respective visions is different, the scope!
Rufus
Hmph. Cid… Let’s drop the talk about my father, hmm?
Cid
Huh? That sounds like an engine. What are those guys doing?!
Player
They’re stealing the Tiny Bronco!
Cid
Like hell you will! That’s my baby! I’m not gonna let !%@#&* like you touch her!
Player
Cid! Wait! You’re the only astronaut in the world. If something happens to you, the launch can’t go on. I’ll go. Rufus, sir, I’ll be back soon.
Rufus
Whatever.
and it gets
Rufus
So you got through all those bully boys outside, did you? I should expect no less from the Turks. You've all caused me enough problems, after all.
Player
What are you doing here?!
Rufus
AVALANCHE has gone too far, that's why.
Tseng
?!
Rufus…?
Reno
?!
Why…?
Rude
?!
Are you…?
Tseng
Sir… what's going on?
???
Everybody! Capture the Vice President!
Tseng
Veld!
Rude
What are you doing here?!
Reno
Why's he here?!
Veld
Vice President Rufus has been controlling AVALANCHE.
Player
I can't believe it!
Rude
But…
Reno
That does explain things.
Tseng
Like how (classified) information was leaking out.
Veld
These are orders directly from the President: Capture Vice President Rufus bring him back to headquarters, where he will be confined.
Player
(Thought) He's going to be placed under house arrest?!
Rufus
Hmph. Veld, have you forgotten the current situation here?
???
Heh heh.
Player
(Gasp) Up?! (Looks up)
Fuhito
That is correct. We are occupying this reactor.
Player
Fuhito! So you were alive!
Rufus
Hmph. It looks like the tables have turned. Fuhito, kill them.
So you got through all those bully boys outside, did you? I should expect no less from the Turks. You've all caused me enough problems, after all.
Player
What are you doing here?!
Rufus
AVALANCHE has gone too far, that's why.
Tseng
?!
Rufus…?
Reno
?!
Why…?
Rude
?!
Are you…?
Tseng
Sir… what's going on?
???
Everybody! Capture the Vice President!
Tseng
Veld!
Rude
What are you doing here?!
Reno
Why's he here?!
Veld
Vice President Rufus has been controlling AVALANCHE.
Player
I can't believe it!
Rude
But…
Reno
That does explain things.
Tseng
Like how (classified) information was leaking out.
Veld
These are orders directly from the President: Capture Vice President Rufus bring him back to headquarters, where he will be confined.
Player
(Thought) He's going to be placed under house arrest?!
Rufus
Hmph. Veld, have you forgotten the current situation here?
???
Heh heh.
Player
(Gasp) Up?! (Looks up)
Fuhito
That is correct. We are occupying this reactor.
Player
Fuhito! So you were alive!
Rufus
Hmph. It looks like the tables have turned. Fuhito, kill them.
This sums up my feelings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHES1lHZn10
So if there's reasons to hate Rufus or see him as villainous, I think they're more in Before Crisis than the original game. Although Before Crisis is a prequel to the Original Game, it went into development with Advent Children in mind, so the characterization of Rufus in BC should be consistant with AC. While it's arguable that AC retcons Rufus's characterization in the OG to make him less of a villain, BC and AC are congruous, this is the character they meant to portray.
Rufus is someone who has it in him to be a terrible human being and subsequent entries to the compilation don't simply make him more sympathetic or nicer. If anything, taking the compilation as a whole, BC, OG, CoS, AC he seems consistant as a character but not stagnant. He develops as a character, in BC, and during CoS. Rufus suffers a lot during CoS and grows as a person, just as he grows as a person during BC, which is why he's actually a better person in the OG than the first half of BC. (Seriously, compared to BC, OG Rufus is great).
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I might just buy one of those I posted, if only I'm using my own credit card 
It's a perfect TLS event!