The General Turks Worship Thread

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes, it's an interesting question. Square will never tell - though it seems obvious to me that the whole justification for Before Crisis was the (unexpected?) popularity of the Turks and Rufus.

This doujinshi is the earliest piece of Turk-related fanfic (if one can call it that) that I've seen. A lot of very common recurring fandom tropes appear in it, most noticeably the idea that Tseng more or less raised Rufus, and was the authority figure his own doting but bonkers father couldn't be. Given that there is nothing in OG to suggest such a relationship (Tseng and Rufus have no interaction whatsoever in the OG) it's really intriguing that this influential trope should have emerged so early on, long before the Compilation was so much as a gleam in Nomura's eye.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

In anime and manga there seems to be a trope about servants raising children, often a devoted butler or maid. I wonder if this is a cultural thing and where exactly is this rooted in Japanese culture.

In response to one of my fanfics someone from Poland noted that she liked the exploration of Tseng being devoted to Rufus as a servant to his Lord, and she said it called back to a lot of older concepts in feudal society that you don't see anymore. She noted in Poland, people were even leaning away from using the word "Lord" in prayer.

Being an American, I'd never really thought about that. I was always a bit uncomfortable reading "The Lord of the Rings" in Middle School, because Sam is referred to as Frodo's servant and calls him Master, which seemed very unequal and disrespectful.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's really interesting, Cam. I'm sure a lot of these feudal ideas linger on in Japanese society, too, and of course English society is riddled with them, though less so now than formerly when Tolkien was writing. At the university I attended, we had servants who came in every day to clean our rooms and make our beds; they would even polish our shoes, and every afternoon they laid out tea in the common room for the undergraduates. They were a mixed blessing because they knew everything you did and were always gossiping, and they were very powerful, because they were all related to each other: if you offended one, or broke any of the unwritten rules, they would combine to make your life a misery. Basically we, the students, were just passing through. The college belonged to its servants.

I guess that at its worst the relationship between master and servant can be unequal and disrespectful, even abusive, but at its best (as with Sam and Frodo) it can be one of mutual respect, affection, even love, and also mutual obligation. To me it seems kind of like a marriage in that regard. Sam had even more strength of character than Frodo, and some people argue that he's the real hero of the story. Frodo couldn't have completed the quest without him.

I don't know very much about Japanese society, but I believe that loyalty to authority is, or used to be, a very important value for them: loyalty to one's lord in feudal times, loyalty to the emperor, and more recently loyalty to one's company. And I think it used to be a two-way street: if you were loyal to your company, your company was loyal to you; you had a job for life, no one ever got laid off or made redundant. But I gather this is changing.

Doesn't that all-American hero, Batman, have a butler who is rather important to him?

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I’m a bit jealous of your college experience, it sounds really nice. In the dorms custodial staff took care of the common areas but you cleaned your own room. I think if they paid people to clean the rooms there’d probably be less fights among roommates. Probably also less illegal paraphernalia hidden in the rooms as well…

The interesting thing is I think in American where “we’re all equal” and servants really aren’t a thing. (They do exist, my mother worked as a maid when I was a child). People in the service industry aren’t paid very well in America (waiters live on tips and are paid below minimum wage) and the jobs aren’t respected. My best friend worked as a maid at the university over the summer (student job, minimum wage plus room and 20 a week food stipend) and they were treated terribly by the people staying at the U over the summer. Football players trashed the rooms and a lot of people were fairly disrespectful. I think the difference is with the American ideal everyone is equal and it’s less about class as status.

Of course, Frodo and Sam have a great relationship but to me the concept seemed so alien. The idea of a class relationship. America is so first name basis and casual, you know?

Not that other values are bad, of course, more I try to look at things through the lens of different cultures, aware of how my culture effects my ideas.

Of course, there is Alfred. Richie-Rich also had a pretty awesome Butler. (In the movie a bodyguard manhandles Richie and he gets all up in his face about not touching him). Although I feel like in these cases the Butler exists to show that a) the character is very rich and b) so they can orphan the character and have someone to look after them.

Oh but then there’s also Green Hornet and Kato.

 

[Morello]

Those scans and translations are wonderful Licorice. It's great to know what's going on - thank you. Little Rufus is so adorably bratty and I love his nighty and night cap and his games console controller! Was he playing FFVII?

Tseng must be a lot older than Rufus in this version of events. I wonder what the book is that Tseng is 'continuing' to read to Rufus? Perhaps "The Wind in the World" is the Wutai equivalent of "The Wind in the Willows" - or even supposed to be that? Or is it the story with the monster in it that Tseng talked about?

Could 'revolving lantern mode' mean that the top floor of the Shinra building revolves, like a revolving restaurant? I know there's no hint of that in the game, but it would be one way of making sense of it - Rufus deliberately turning to face Weapon.

Is the implication of the pictures of wounded Tseng next to Rufus having no fear of Weapon's attack that Rufus has no fear any more because Tseng is dead/wounded? Or that he's remembering Tseng's lessons and the image of Tseng is giving him strength? Or is Tseng alive, and trying to get to him? I think I read that in Japan Tseng was never said to have died at the Temple of the Ancients, so perhaps he's trying to get back to Rufus?

I love President Shinra's safari gear! There really is an old-fashioned colonial vibe going on there - which fits Midgar's world domination. All that's already been said about the master/servant dynamic is very interesting. We had 'bedders' at university who cleaned the rooms on weekdays. It was a good incentive to keep your own room tidy - I would have been much too embarrassed to leave a mess. In the holidays I worked as a college cleaner in another college, and had similar experiences to your friend Cam - in one room there was a window seat with a lift-up top, and a student had left it six inches deep in biscuit crumbs!

That Green Hornet and Kato comparison works well for young Rufus and Tseng - Tseng doing all the work. If Rufus wasn't so intelligent Tseng could be a Jeeves, but luckily Rufus outgrew his brat stage. On that second page Tseng and Rufus really remind me of Sebastian and Ciel...

I always loved the style of what I'd seen of this doujinshi, but seeing so many pictures and knowing what it's about is so much more interesting.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

. If Rufus wasn't so intelligent Tseng could be a Jeeves, but luckily Rufus outgrew his brat stage.

When, at 20? In the first half of Before Crisis, he seems pretty bratty. Although maybe brat isn't a strong enough word...

 

[Morello]

Yes, true. He outgrew his bratty reliance on others, then. He thought he was too clever to need help anymore - but he actually needed it more than ever after Corel. He seems to have outgrown it by 25 though.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Yes, he does. They say 25 is when your brain has fully developed, so it makes sense on one level.

It's funny, I don't picture child Rufus as that bratty and have more...sweet/vulnerable, in a way because I don't think he'd have quite learned to hide and/or bury his emotions quite yet.

I just wrote this short fic http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8837932/1/Snow - inspired by all the little Rufus adorableness.

Maybe I write him too nice.

 

[Fangu]

I am finally home and I have the time to sit down with a cup of tea and amongst other things read these. Thank you for posting them Lic!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Ah, satisfied customers.

OK, so here'a a little story I call "The Fine Art of Eating Chicken Sausage". It's kind of hilariously kinky. I am pretty sure I have not caught all the nuances, but I have done my best. NSFW, I guess. Depends how prudish your workplace is.

Spoiler: Page 1: Do Peasants Eat This?

Spoiler: Page 2: Dive Right In!

Some stand alone drawings:

Spoiler: Reno, Rude, Elena

Spoiler: Tseng and Rufus

Spoiler: Sketches of Tseng and Aerith

I'm happy you guys are enjoying these.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

You guys may find this amusing. So for Christmas I got a gift card and so I bought this cute white blazer with block lapels. I asked my husband what he thought and he said "very Rufus". And was ... it's very me, I have my own style you know.

Then today I was streaming and the first thing that was asked.

Are you dressed as Rufus.

...

I guess my own style is also very Rufus. I suggested maybe I should change my hair, but my housemate insisted, it's not just the hair. Oh well...

 

[Fangu]

Guess what guys. I've been offered one AO3 invite. One. Remember when I asked for it? Must have been like a year ago. I don't think neither Kassi, Cam nor Morello were members here at the time So, does anyone need an invite?

I love AO3 just to make that clear

Edit: Also, finished reading, Lic - gaaaahhh I love the way Tseng is drawn in some of the panels *drools*

 

[Octo]

Sleep deprived and hysterical from "chicken sausages" XD

 

[Drax]

Ah, Ask-the-Turks updated

Bonus:

Spoiler

http://turk-reno.tumblr.com/post/40110362689/wake-up

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Thanks for thinking of me. I've all ready got AO3 account though, thanks.

 

[Drax]

^Looks more like Jason Statham the Turk than a Rude if you ask me.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Rude kinda looks like he's got his hand in Reno's pocket.

Turks ships are never battleships! Everyone loves everyone in the Department of Administrative Research

 

[Morello]

Rude kinda looks like he's got his hand in Reno's pocket.

I always thought that's what was going on in this picture until I saw Rude's elbow! If Rude's hand were in Reno's pocket, Reno's expression would be telling an interesting story...

I've always loved this picture however you read it. They look so original game - kind of world-weary, or maybe just louche.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Turks ships are never battleships! Everyone loves everyone in the Department of Administrative Research

Except Veld. I find pairing Veld with any of his subordinates a bit creepy. Veld/Vincent is fine, of course.

 

[Morello]

I usually see Veld as much more of a father figure to the other Turks than a romantic partner. Or, in a more sinister light, a kind of Fagin figure. But I did once have an idea for a Veld/Martial Arts F. story. Big age differences don't normally seem to be a problem in FFVII, after all! There's a lot of Veld/Tseng out there, but I much prefer a father/son dynamic between those two.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I once read a Veld/Tifa by crankyoldman that was surprisingly good.

No one will be surprised to learn that I hate Veld/Tseng. Not even Karanguni could reconcile me to that pairing.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I may have to check these stories out just to see. (may I have a link, please)..but like the both of you I see his relationship to the other Turks as more paternal.

As for Veld/Tifa...ok...I'll look at it, but it's a still a bit weird considering she's probably younger than his daughter. (but then I suppose there are plenty of people who do that in real life and it's no worse than pairing Vincent with anyone else).

But I did once have an idea for a Veld/Martial Arts F. story. Big age differences don't normally seem to be a problem in FFVII, after all!

Although, that might not be so bad...MAF is probably one of the older Turks since she had a whole career before joining, so it might not be a huge difference. Tseng/Elena is arguably worse because Elena is probably much younger than MAF.

Veld/Tseng squicks me. I'm all right with age differences in pairings. Even things like Axel/Roxas from KH which many people see as problematic because the younger partner is 15 (I generally age up when I write it). However, if there's a chance that the dynamic is paternalistic it just hits so many levels of squick.

I mean, it took me awhile to warm up to Tseng/Rufus because of how I see the dynamic...

But with Veld/Tseng..the way Tseng acts towards Veld...it would be creepy if it was romantic.

It's like with Les Mis when people pair Val Jean and Cossette (and people do, the 2000 TV Miniseries has Val Jean admit romantic feelings, it's just not right).

I guess with pairings there's an attraction to certain power dynamics that I can understand. Having a stronger partner who takes care of the others seems very popular in a lot of romance. Edward and Bella is almost paternalistic in Twilight (part of the reason I don't get that series). I could see a romantic draw towards someone who takes care of you, who you can trust absolutely, my Rufus and Tseng have this dynamic (Though I have my Rufus lean more towards the egalitarian friendship type relationship offered by Reno).

But when the dynamic gets to the extreme that it's very teacher/student or father/child it just gets squicky.

 

[Unlucky]

Spoiler: Just random stuff I found on tumblr, because this thread needs moar love

Sorry for repeats!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Just random stuff I found on tumblr, because this thread needs moar love

I really love this one. I think it's because of Rude's expression - and the light.

I wish I owned these.

 

[Unlucky]

I really love this one. I think it's because of Rude's expression - and the light.

Same here. And that you don't see artwork of Rude without his sunglasses everyday. He looks really good here.

I wish I owned these.

I have a collection of cake plushies that I made myself (they did come with materials, cut out patterns and instructions but they're not complicated). I think if one has the time it's fun to try doing something like these