The General Turks Worship Thread

[Rydeen]

Rufus initially struck me as straight due to the fact that during his first speech to the party he goes way out of his way to approach the females first. It's pretty interesting how he's one of the few characters whose topic of sexuality is completely avoided (and hence up for headcanon), especially considering how liberal the writers were regarding Palmer's and President Shinra's recreational activities. Its confirmed all the Turks save Reno have an interest in the opposite sex. I think it would be odd (statistically) if Rufus, Reno and Tseng were all gay/bisexual, but as Cameo said, it would be more convenient for love stories if they were, given the sausage fest environment (provided the BC Turks are not considered) and the fact that in their positions, work = life.

As for poker - I may have a video of Rufus and the Turks playing strip poker...

Wasn't exactly thinking in sexual terms, but I'm perfectly fine with that as well.
In terms of poker, I'd like to see whose stoic facade would crack first out of Rude, Tseng, and Rufus.

 

[Unlucky]

Turk headcanon: Rude and Elena are both straight, from what's presented in the games. I'd like to think of Reno as straight. There's really no basis for this headcanon but I see him as someone who avoids commitment for obvious reasons. He might seem to be a lax Turk, what with his "cool" attitude and manner of dressing, but to me he probably has the firmest grasp of what a Turk life is, and so he's resigned to his fate. He's smart enough to avoid attachment.

Tseng is straight in my head, but I don't really ponder on his sexual orientation. I'd like to think that it's a mystery, even to him Not just his sexual orientation, but the whole concept of romance and sexual relationships per se.. Idk, I don't think it's something he'd think about even if he does feel sexual attraction (not to say that I think he's a virgin, though). Tseng experts feel free to correct me if I'm missing something..

As I said Rufus used to be straight in my head, now I'm not so sure. I can imagine him as both gay and straight now so I guess he's bisexual? It's interesting when I think about it.. I think in his youth he did go through the normal stages of exploration and whatnot, so perhaps in his age he's someone who's confident about his sexual orientation, whatever it is. It's very interesting to ponder upon-- did he date (lots of) pretty, rich girls? Guys? If he did, did he keep it a secret? Or did he not care to hide it at all?

Interesting tidbit about Rufus approaching the girls first.. did not notice it til now

 

[Rydeen]

Seems like he'd kept a clean trail. Headcanon: In addition to losing the sk8erboi haircut, he also lost his virginity sometime in Junon.

He might seem to be a lax Turk, what with his "cool" attitude and manner of dressing, but to me he probably has the firmest grasp of what a Turk life is, and so he's resigned to his fate. He's smart enough to avoid attachment.

Nice analysis, there; I agree.

Tseng is straight in my head, but I don't really ponder on his sexual orientation. I'd like to think that it's a mystery, even to him Not just his sexual orientation, but the whole concept of romance and sexual relationships per se.. Idk, I don't think it's something he'd think about even if he does feel sexual attraction (not to say that I think he's a virgin, though). Tseng experts feel free to correct me if I'm missing something..

In addition to his pining for Aerith, he had also asked Elena out on a date before his injuries at the Temple of the Ancients. - "Hey Elena, how about dinner after this job?"

Interesting tidbit about Rufus approaching the girls first.. did not notice it til now

There are all sorts of arbitrary things I've seen pointed out in fanfics... Another one is his tendency to constantly walk underneath textboxes.

EDIT:

Spoiler: small pic dump

This really is quite a piece; I'd like to see more of this artist's work.


i c wut u did thar

 

[Unlucky]

Seems like he'd kept a clean trail. Headcanon: In addition to losing the sk8erboi haircut, he also lost his virginity sometime in Junon.

Lawl sk8erboi Not a fan of that, his slick back hair though = sexiness

My version: he lost his virginity sometime during his teenage years when his social life was at its peak. Whether it's to girl or a boy or a group idk

In addition to his pining for Aerith, he had also asked Elena out on a date before his injuries at the Temple of the Ancients. "Hey Elena, how about dinner after this job?"

Was it ever confirmed that he's interested in Aerith romantically? My memory's blurry about that one, I might be confusing headcanon with the real thing. And yeah there's Elena, but still.. Like I said he does feel attracted to people, but whether he thinks of pursuing a relationship with them, I dunno..

There are all sorts of benign things I've seen pointed out in fanfics... Another one is his tendency to constantly walk underneath textboxes.

What about the numerous times he did a hairflip

 

[Rydeen]

Lawl sk8erboi Not a fan of that, his slick back hair though = sexiness

My version: he lost his virginity sometime during his teenage years when his social life was at its peak. Whether it's to girl or a boy or a group idk

Still don't get why they ditched the orange, though. And as an individual defined by status, I am interested in what sort of social life he'd led. Although the media was monopolized by Shinra, he likely experienced tons of social restraints for both the good of the company and his image. Not to mention an ensuing mental and political inability to interact with people as peers. Through this and his rigid, business-like interactions with his father from such a young age, I think he generally became an isolated and self-centered person. I can see a sex life and possibly a strained and carefuly tapered romantic life, but not much of a social life.

Was it ever confirmed that he's interested in Aerith romantically? My memory's blurry about that one, I might be confusing headcanon with the real thing. And yeah there's Elena, but still.. Like I said he does feel attracted to people, but whether he thinks of pursuing a relationship with them, I dunno..

It was implied early in the game and then more blatantly amidst Tseng's supposed dying breaths. Case of Shinra also has a nice exposition on it that illustrates his conflict between his feelings and duties as a Turk and explains his cold treatment of Aeris.

What about the numerous times he did a hairflip

That's more of a defining characteristic than arbitrary one, I'd say.

Also, did you catch the fanart I posted? I went back and edited it in a few minutes after the original post.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Rufus initially struck me as straight due to the fact that during his first speech to the party he goes way out of his way to approach the females first. It's pretty interesting how he's one of the few characters whose topic of sexuality is completely avoided (and hence up for headcanon), especially considering how liberal the writers were regarding Palmer's and President Shinra's recreational activities. Its confirmed all the Turks save Reno have an interest in the opposite sex. I think it would be odd (statistically) if Rufus, Reno and Tseng were all gay/bisexual, but as Cameo said, it would be more convenient for love stories if they were, given the sausage fest environment (provided the BC Turks are not considered) and the fact that in their positions, work = life.

I took the fact that Rufus and Reno have no canon love interests as an excuse to pair them because if they were each other’s love interest they wouldn’t mention it, although everyone’s head canon is equally valid. To me the fact that we don’t see Rufus be sexual at all, when Palmer and the President have recreational activities and even Hojo was surrounded by girls at the beach, left questions as to why in story? He could easily be asexual or just busy, but I don’t default to straight.

As for statistics I feel like it’s hard to say. The Kinsey scale says most people are a bit bi, although that doesn’t mean everyone is equally attracted to men and women. More that people are attracted to whatever gender or genders they’re attracted too but it’s a spectrum and there are gray areas. Also statistics are weird. If only 3.5% of the population is gay, that’s a low chance than any one person is gay, but in the population is the USA 11.7 million people, which seems high. So the odds that 3 out of the 5 Turks and Rufus are non-straight are low, but the odds that 3 or more Shinra employees are non-straight are high and they could be those 3. 2% of the world has blonde hair, so it’s probably just as unlikely that 2 of the group would be blonde. (Then again, I don’t understand math)

I consulted a mathematician about this and he says he’ll send me a polished reply tomorrow.

Nice catch on Rufus going to the girl’s first. You could definitely use that if you wanted to ship Rufus/Tifa.

Since I’m trained in public speaking I always saw Rufus’s movement as a triangle that allowed him to give attention evenly to his audience Rufus centers himself to party standing in front of Cloud and then walks in a triangle formation to Tifa who is farthest away and then crossing over to Aerith who is on the way to the far side of the triangle where Beret is standing, he then crosses back to the middle.

Also, can we just talk about the fact that Cloud’s party introduces themselves as dangerous people who hate Shinra, and Rufus cheerfully introduces himself and then walks right through the party, mingling with them as though they’re guests he’s hosting.

Rufus Shinra is completely fearless.

Seems like he'd kept a clean trail. Headcanon: In addition to losing the sk8erboi haircut, he also lost his virginity sometime in Junon.

Rufus was 25 years old by that point, and wasn’t locked up until he was 21. Assuming he didn’t do anything with any of the Turks during his four years of confinement (which is fair to assume because doing anything with him would be a very bad idea for all parties but I’d still ship it), he’d still be a virgin at 21.

He’s rich, powerful, gorgeous, and charming. Why wait so long? Then again, there’s no rush to lose it, but if he wasn’t rushing then why rush to lose in the month between his release and the start of the original game?

I think as a teenager he’d have plenty of opportunities and why not take them? I’m not criticizing and certainly there’s nothing wrong with virginity, I was a virgin until marriage. I just want to know you’re rational because it’s interesting.

My Head Canon: Rufus lost it at age 16 to Reno, who was 17 but had much more experience.

Elena and Rude are straight. Reno is bisexual. Rufus prefers men but has been with women and could be with a woman, he’s just more innately attracted to men. Tseng in contrast is more strongly oriented towards women, but can find certain men attractive.

On the Kinsey scale that’s

0 is straight and 6 is gay

0 – Rude, Elena
1
2 - Tseng
3 - Reno
4
5 – Rufus Shinra
6

Also, because it’s a scale, in the general population while more people are 0 than any other category and more people are on the predominantly straight side of the scale, all the other non-straight categories add up. That means only 38% of the population is straight while the other 62% is not straight. With those statistics, my head canon isn’t that statistically unlikely. If 62 % of the general population is non-straight, then 3 of the 5 (60%) of the characters sampled being non-straight seems plausible. http://www.g0ys.org/skewedchart.htm

I also think having canon interest in a female character doesn't mean 100% straight, it means not 100% gay. I'm mostly straight, I don't find "women" attractive, but I be attracted to people who happen to be women, you know?

Of course, I don’t think my head canon is the “right” answer; there is no right answer. I can also be convinced to believe almost any pairing if it’s written well enough as well as any sexuality. I’ve read Reno as asexual, gay, bi, and straight. It depends on the Reno, i.e. what story and what author.

My head canon is also that Reno is a busybody who’s more interested in everyone else’s love lives.

Other head canon: Rufus pushes his hair back as a sort of subconscious nervous tick that he does when flustered. * I think this because I do this, and so that seems natural to me *

Was it ever confirmed that he's interested in Aerith romantically? My memory's blurry about that one, I might be confusing headcanon with the real thing. And yeah there's Elena, but still.. Like I said he does feel attracted to people, but whether he thinks of pursuing a relationship with them, I dunno..

FFVII: Where there few canon pairings and a lot of canon ambiguous ship teases. We know Elena likes Tseng, but I’m not even sure if Tseng knows what’s he’s doing. In Case of Shinra he seems very awkward and bad at talking to her, although it’s clear she loves him. I think Tseng isn’t sure what he wants to do.

Although they might hook up in “The Kids are All Right”? Has anyone read that? Is it still ambiguous?

As for Aerith, you get a good look at the relationship from Tseng’s point of view in Case of Shinra and he sort of worshipped her. He sees her like she’s a unicorn or something, like too pure and wonderful to exist; I am unworthy to be near her. I think he loved her, wanted to protect her, and wanted to do what he could for her and be what he could be for her. I think it transcends mere romantic interest, but could also be romantic.

Wasn't exactly thinking in sexual terms, but I'm perfectly fine with that as well.
In terms of poker, I'd like to see whose stoic facade would crack first out of Rude, Tseng, and Rufus.

It’s not sexual (cosplay vid with me and my friends – although it was sort of an excuse to get fan service by getting the boys out of their shirts), more comedic.

A serious version, I doubt any of them could be read at all. Although they’re also very good at reading each other…hmm

And I love that Rufus art you shared, it's wonderful.

 

[Unlucky]

Still don't get why they ditched the orange, though. And as an individual defined by status, I am interested in what sort of social life he'd led. Although the media was monopolized by Shinra, he likely experienced tons of social restraints for both the good of the company and his image. Not to mention an ensuing mental and political inability to interact with people as peers. Through this and his rigid, business-like interactions with his father from such a young age, I think he generally became an isolated and self-centered person. I can see a sex life and possibly a strained and carefuly tapered romantic life, but not much of a social life.

Yeah it's weird, the sprite's orange-haired, but the character model is clearly blond. But I do love the ash blonde hair in AC, coupled with the signature pristine white suit, he looks refined.

I don't know if it's just me but I always like to think that at some point he had a "friend" or two that he was able to genuinely enjoy his time with, and there was a period in his youth in which he was able to enjoy being with people, restrained their interactions may have been.

It was implied early in the game and then more blatantly amidst Tseng's supposed dying breaths. Case of Shinra also has a nice exposition on it that illustrates his conflict between his feelings and duties as a Turk and explains his cold treatment of Aeris.

I interpreted it as clearly caring for her. I don't think it's a leap to assume he likes her romantically, but to me it's somewhat vague.

I do remember posting back then in the headcanons thread how I think Tseng is confused whether he's romantically interested in Aerith or simply emotionally attached to her.

That's more of a defining characteristic than arbitrary one, I'd say.

Oh yeah. I love that haughty gesture. Wish he'd done it in AC, I'd like to see it in glorious CG!

Also, did you catch the fanart I posted? I went back and edited it in a few minutes after the original post.

Yep. Lovely. The second one's brilliant

He could easily be asexual or just busy, but I don’t default to straight.

I can easily imagine Rufus answering to a question by the media about his preferences: "I'm too busy to even think about whether I'm gay or not"

Idk why that randomly popped in my head.. let's carry on xD

Also, can we just talk about the fact that Cloud’s party introduces themselves as dangerous people who hate Shinra, and Rufus cheerfully introduces himself and then walks right through the party, mingling with them as though they’re guests he’s hosting.

Rufus Shinra is completely fearless.

Cloud and Co.: We're AVALANCHE and we're here to blow more of your shit up. Btw did you notice there's five of us and only one of you

Rufus:

Spoiler: That's cute

I think as a teenager he’d have plenty of opportunities and why not take them?

This is exactly the point I was driving at. I do imagine Rufus to have a very restrained life since.. ever, but to me it's not so rigid that he wasn't able to interact with friends as a young person would, no matter how briefly.

FFVII: Where there few canon pairings and a lot of canon ambiguous ship teases. We know Elena likes Tseng, but I’m not even sure if Tseng knows what’s he’s doing. In Case of Shinra he seems very awkward and bad at talking to her, although it’s clear she loves him. I think Tseng isn’t sure what he wants to do.

Seconded. I think that is what's fascinating about the two of them. We have a girl who's clearly head over heels in love with her superior. We know nothing about the superior's feelings, although he's shown to somewhat have "interest".

Also, agree with your take on Tseng and Aerith.

I'm sorry if I'm not making any sense.. it's past midnight here I should really hit the bed

 

[Rydeen]

Wish he'd done it in AC, I'd like to see it in glorious CG!

I had expected it to be slipped in to no avail.

With Tseng and Elena there is definitely that awkward dynamic between two people coming from different sides of the ball field emotionally.

And I could definitely see the validity of the sliding scale. Anecdotally it seems like many who are bisexual by any definition have entertained thoughts or experimented as a sort of "kink," but choose to not do much with it or pursue relationships with the same sex. Then there are those who score higher on the scale who are interested enough to maintain relationships and sexual activity, but assumably would be rarer in occurence.

2% of the world has blonde hair, so it’s probably just as unlikely that 2 of the group would be blonde.

But this is caused by the much higher occurrence of blonde hair in other parts of the world than others. I would assume sexuality to be more static regardless of the sample, unless we're speaking of the expression of said sexuality. But yeah, statistics are weird.. and alternatingly fascinating and frustrating.

Nice catch on Rufus going to the girl’s first. You could definitely use that if you wanted to ship Rufus/Tifa.

It's sort of a staple to that ship, from what I've seen. That and the "I wonder what kind of person he is..." amidst everyone else's harsher or more fearful projections, and the "Where's Rufus??." Fanon shippers; they're a creative bunch. That being said, there are instances in which I have seen this pair written well.

Since I’m trained in public speaking I always saw Rufus’s movement as a triangle that allowed him to give attention evenly to his audience Rufus centers himself to party standing in front of Cloud and then walks in a triangle formation to Tifa who is farthest away and then crossing over to Aerith who is on the way to the far side of the triangle where Beret is standing, he then crosses back to the middle.

Good point. Then again, uh, I did t-t-terribly in my, uh, P-public Speaking Communications general ed requirement. It just so happens that the women arranged themselves in such a manner: I wonder if Nomura was conscious of this; likely no.

Also, can we just talk about the fact that Cloud’s party introduces themselves as dangerous people who hate Shinra, and Rufus cheerfully introduces himself and then walks right through the party, mingling with them as though they’re guests he’s hosting.

Rufus was 25 years old by that point, and wasn’t locked up until he was 21. Assuming he didn’t do anything with any of the Turks during his four years of confinement (which is fair to assume because doing anything with him would be a very bad idea for all parties but I’d still ship it), he’d still be a virgin at 21.

Good point. I could see it during one of his earlier trips to Junon, or even earlier as you say. Funny thing is that the original canon (actually, it could have been falsified as I can't locate the original source, much of like Reno Sinclair) originally pegged Rufus as 21 during the game, which would make him 16 during BC; so even after CoS I have a habit of thinking of that chronology. Come to think of it, the hair he sported, as well, is not so suited for a twenty year old of his sophistication.

It’s not sexual (cosplay vid with me and my friends – although it was sort of an excuse to get fan service by getting the boys out of their shirts), more comedic.

I skimmed over that part in the last post; thought you meant fanart. Now I feel like a creeper.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Rufus was not imprisoned in Junon. I don't know why everyone thinks that. He was held "in the secret room in the Turks' headquarters". OK, iirc it's never plainly stated "The Turks' headquarters on x floor in the Shira building," but it's strongly implied. Having their HQ in Junon wouldn't make any sense logistically, though they would certainly have a branch office there.

I don't know why I'm getting so bogged down in this detail. Sorry. Junon. Midgar, it's not like it really matters.

Headcanon:
Rufus is gay but can rise to the occassion for a girl if necessary
Tseng is pansexual
Rude is straight
Reno is straight but open to suggestions
Elena is mostly straight but has done some experimentation
Palmer's straight (this seems to be canon)
Prez Shinra has violently repressed gay urges
Heidegger likes very young girls
Reeve is straight and often has short-lived affairs with his prettier interns
Hojo I guess we know
Scarlet is asexual
Cloud is straight but thinks women are complicated and gets bromantically attached to the important men in his life

 

[Super Mario]

God I hope with the new CEO in SE, we can get some good turk action in any attempt to showcase the compilation. It's in serious need of revising and checking out the other turks from BC, I haven't seen hide or hair from the new recruits other than Cissnei.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Somehow I’ve managed to become the Before Crisis Guru on Tumblr. No idea how that happened, I’ve been in this fandom for a shorter period of time than other Tumblr users. How did I become the expert?

I guess it’s the fact I’m eager to tell people about BC, ask people about BC, and recruit people into liking BC through persuasive arguments and incentives (Think of what it would mean for your OTP? So much potential)

Not that I’m complaining. I like it when I can get people to do what I want, and I want more people in my fandom.

Good point. I could see it during one of his earlier trips to Junon, or even earlier as you say. Funny thing is that the original canon (actually, it could have been falsified as I can't locate the original source, much of like Reno Sinclair) originally pegged Rufus as 21 during the game, which would make him 16 during BC; so even after CoS I have a habit of thinking of that chronology. Come to think of it, the hair he sported, as well, is not so suited for a twenty year old of his sophistication.

Yes, when something is fanon, it's hard to let it go because it's been the "truth" for so long. Although I think it's fine to ignore canon ages for the sake of your plot if you so choose. Having Rufus aiding terrorists at 14 just makes him more of a prodigy and makes his actions more understandable (Teenagers do stupid things)

As mentioned, my head canon is Rufus just looks really young and always has looked young. He's cursed with soft/feminine/boyish features, and looking 4 years younger than he actually is, and I believe this in part because Rufus looks so young in BC. (Maybe his hair style was in at the time? And don't mock his hair too much, mind currently looks like that due to a terribly bad hair cut and it's going to take forever to grow out - cries)

I don't know why I'm getting so bogged down in this detail. Sorry. Junon. Midgar, it's not like it really matters.

You probably get bogged down on this detail because you’ve actually read the scripts/watched the play through. Once you know the canon it’s hard to stop seeing through the lens of the canon ‘truth’.

However, while Rufus was held in Midgar between May 03 and October 4th 07. Where was he between October 5th and December 9th of that year, and in between December 9th and his return to Midgar as the new President.

If I understand the BC dates correctly, the BC’s Turks final battle against Zirconiade, Veld and Elfe’s “execution” and the remaining Turks capture/return to Shinra on October 5th. The tribunal where Rufus intervenes to save the Turks from execution isn’t until two months later.

What was going on in that time and where did Rufus go afterwards because he’s not in the city during the beginning of the original game or at any of the board meetings.

My theory is after releasing Rufus, the President sent him to Junon to keep him out of the way. Essentially replacing captivity with banishment, and I’ve no doubt he kept an eye on him while he was there. So he probably is still in some ways under house arrest. At the very least he hasn’t been invited back to board meetings. Then Rufus returns for the tribunal (much to everyone’s surprise), before being sent back to Junon.

In regards to Rufus’s relationships, if he had friends of lovers,

Spoiler: Click Here to See More

And as an individual defined by status, I am interested in what sort of social life he'd led. Although the media was monopolized by Shinra, he likely experienced tons of social restraints for both the good of the company and his image. Not to mention an ensuing mental and political inability to interact with people as peers. Through this and his rigid, business-like interactions with his father from such a young age, I think he generally became an isolated and self-centered person. I can see a sex life and possibly a strained and carefuly tapered romantic life, but not much of a social life.

I don't know if it's just me but I always like to think that at some point he had a "friend" or two that he was able to genuinely enjoy his time with, and there was a period in his youth in which he was able to enjoy being with people, restrained their interactions may have been.

I’m in the Rufus didn’t have didn’t have many real friends camp. I believe he was surrounded by people but taught from an early age not to trust them and to assume that anyone who wanted to be his friend at school had an ulterior motive.

In one of my fics I have Rufus as an 11 year saying that “Someone like me doesn’t have the luxury of having friends” He views social interactions in school in terms of “alliances”. There are peers whose company he might enjoy, but he wouldn’t let them close to consider them a friend or trust them enough. I also think he might have pushed people away by being very closed off and guarded in his demeanor, whom they probably read as being stuck up and stand offish. If Rufus made friends, it was through effort, making the connections he aught to make.

He was taught to play the game of power from birth. The rules of this game: If you want anything in life, including power, you have to take it and keep it. If you have power people will try to take it from you or use you for it.

Rufus had no true friends, only players in his game, and he learned to play young.

My headcanon is Nunchaku went to the same school as him as a child and actively tried to befriend him. Rufus was able to recognize that Nunchaku was genuinely friendly and guileless and hated him for it. Hated that this boy could be honestly friendly and happy and not get that you can’t trust anyone. Hated that his boy believed he could be whatever he wanted when he grew up and he’d be loved by his family and everyone around him regardless, whereas Rufus had to be exactly what his father wanted, had to be the heir of Shinra, and could never truly be himself. And how can you have a friend when every step you take has to be part of a careful façade? Nunchaku wore his heart on his sleeve, no façade at all, and Rufus hated him for that and for wanting to be his friend because somehow it all seemed to mock him.

I think the closest thing Rufus had to friends were the Turks. Tseng was like the cool baby sitter, the big kid Rufus wanted to hang around and look up to, and they had a friendship in the way you might consider your babysitter a friend. Then I have Reno as Rufus’s peer and in many ways a true friend, an only friend, a best friend, but Rufus would never define the relationship like that and neither would Reno. They were master and servant in the class sense of the words and the fact they got along didn’t mean they could call it friendship when the social circumstances would forbid it.

I see Rufus Shinra’s romantic and sex life as part of his whole façade. He had girls because he was expected to have girls. He liked being charming, liked having them hang on his every word and in some instances actually liked them as people even if he wasn’t really sexually attracted to women per se.

My head canon is he had a PA named Heather that he picked up at a party where she was working as a waitress. He liked her very much as a person and she was sort of his pet. He considered dating her to annoy his father by dating beneath him and to create something for the press to write about. The sweet romance between the gorgeous young VP and a common assistant, but in the end he decided against it because he liked her too much to pull her into his world. He also didn’t want him to think he’d only hired her out of romantic interest, and was only nice to her because he wanted to get in her bed. But he could see himself with her, even if he wasn’t attracted to her. He could enjoy her well enough on other levels.

(My OC/Canon pairings always end up non-typical/deconstructions)

Headcanon:
Rufus is gay but can rise to the occassion for a girl if necessary
Tseng is pansexual
Rude is straight
Reno is straight but open to suggestions
Elena is mostly straight but has done some experimentation

So your scale for Rufus and OG Turks would be about

0 - Rude
1 – Reno
2 - Elena
3 - Tseng
4
5 – Rufus
6

Is that accurate?

I like putting it on the chart to look at how we think of it, because it’s sort of revealing on how we think of sexuality. We think of Rude, Elena and Reno as straight, some with addendums, so that the majority is straight, rather than seeing the variance on the gay and straight sides of the scale. Of course, the variations have so much variance that even putting a number to is it hard because as here Reno may be close to .5 and Elena closer to 1.5 but they might both be classified as 1.

1 being “Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual” and 2 being “Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual”

Sexuality is so fluid and complicated. But it's interesting that this variance means that at once it is true that most people are "straight" (falls under straight or predominately straight) and that most people are "not straight" (fall under not 100% straight, no buts). And how we define if people are straight or not straight and how silly a binary it really is.

Also

Prez Shinra has violently repressed gay urges

HA HA HA HA HA

That explains a lot actually. Do you think he subconsciously keeps Skeeter around so he can creep on him?

Heidegger likes very young girls

Eww! How young? That head canon certainly makes him more dislikeable.

Reeve is straight and often has short-lived affairs with his prettier interns

And here I thought Polly was his one true love? I thought she was special, there were others? Is she different at all? Will their relationship last? (providing she lives)

You do realize you have readers who ship this right? LOL (I do hope I don’t come of off as an annoyingly obsessive fan girl)

But yeah, statistics are weird.. and alternatingly fascinating and frustrating.

If anyone’s interested, I brought the questions a friend, who in addition to being a great Hojo cosplayer, is a genius and professor of mathematics

Spoiler: his response

For the purposes of this message, I will use the hypothesis that "10%" of the population is gay, because it is simpler. The answer depends on the specifics of the question being asked. If the question is specifically "How likely is it that Rufus, Reno, and Tseng are gay/bi?" then it is simply (.1)^3 = 0.1%. However, if you're considering "How likely is it that three people in a group of n will be gay/bi?" then it is more complicated. I will consider this as "at least three" rather than "exactly three", since doing so is simpler and I believe it gets more accurately to the relevant point. So, those probabilities for various values of n are:

Group of 5: 0.9%
Group of 10: 7.0%
Group of 15: 18.4%
Group of 20: 32.3%
Group of 25: 46.2%
Group of 30: 58.9%
Group of 50: 88.8%

By comparison, I would like to point out that it is often assumed that people are straight unless specified otherwise. The probability that everyone in a group of n is straight, for various values of n:

Group of 5: 59.0%
Group of 10: 34.8%
Group of 15: 20.6%
Group of 20: 12.2%
Group of 25: 7.2%
Group of 30: 4.2%
Group of 50: 0.5%

Incidentally, the first probability becomes larger than the second once the size of the group reaches 16. I.E. It is more unlikely that everyone in a group of 16 is straight than three people in the group are gay, but no one seems to question media that depicts larger than 16 as entirely heterosexual.

If you want to find either of these yourself, you can input these lines (respectively) into Wolfram Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) and change the value of n at the end.
1 - (.9^n + n*.9^(n-1)*.1 + C(n,2)*.9^(n-2)*.1^2) for n=50
(.9)^n for n=50

I would also like to note that these probabilities point to one reason, I think, that LGBT people disproportionately live in larger cities.

I skimmed over that part in the last post; thought you meant fanart. Now I feel like a creeper.

LOL, don't worry about it. It's not creepy.

I actually run some 18 plus cosplay panels that are "sexual" (not explicit, but contain sexual themes and jokes, hence the adults only ratings). Then I've done "sexy" pictures with some of my group, such as an extensive Rude strip tease series of pictures for Soak (shirtless only, but still sexual in theme). Then I've done some Rufus Shinra cosplay pictures that were meant to be evacuative/suggestive. So it's really no big deal. Then again, I differentiate between sexual and pornographic, Titanic has sexual content and it's PG 13. And I honestly wouldn't be opposed to projects that are suggestive.

 

[Unlucky]

In regards to Rufus’s relationships, if he had friends of lovers,

Spoiler: Click Here to See More

My head canon is he had a PA named Heather that he picked up at a party where she was working as a waitress. He liked her very much as a person and she was sort of his pet. He considered dating her to annoy his father by dating beneath him and to create something for the press to write about. The sweet romance between the gorgeous young VP and a common assistant, but in the end he decided against it because he liked her too much to pull her into his world. He also didn’t want him to think he’d only hired her out of romantic interest, and was only nice to her because he wanted to get in her bed. But he could see himself with her, even if he wasn’t attracted to her. He could enjoy her well enough on other levels.

Just to make my point clear, again something like this ^ is what I'm driving at. I believe there are actually people that he sincerely liked, just like 'Heather', except that in my head I don't really have a solid story. Whether that's enough to call them 'friends' is debatable, but what matters is there's genuine fondness right there, even if it's just coming from his side.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Yes, I think it's a matter of definition. I think from her side Heather comes to like him a great deal and might have loved it if he'd asked her out or considered her a friend. From Rufus's stand point she's not a friend because that would mean letting her get close. He doesn't let people get that close. He doesn't let people see behind his facade, not entirely. With the exception of the Turks, to various degrees at various times.

I suppose Rufus sees friendship and love as something more than mere fondness. I guess he'd define a friend as "someone I wouldn't kill if their death furthered my purpose" or "someone I can trust absolutely" and thus he never considered anyone as a friend because he believed he would have to be willing to do anything and that there was no one he could trust. Perhaps because he believes other people would be just as willing to kill him. His world is very eat or be eaten, he was raised in a lion's den, but the Turks are wolves. They rely on and trust each other, and by the end of BC Rufus's become more of a wolf.

By the end of BC I think the Turks are his friends, but I still think Rufus would have difficulty putting it that way. He'd want to seem professional, and unemotional. He insists he does everything for an analytical reason. His line to Tseng that he didn't save them for their sakes but did it for himself.

Rufus believes he's supposed to be self centered in order to survive and won't admit otherwise, even though the Turks means a lot to him and become his family/his pack.

 

[Rydeen]

I like your headcanons/fanfic universe, Cameo; they are well thought/fleshed out and find your depiction of Rufus very believable.

And I was wondering the same thing when I stumbled on Licorice's thread - if he wasn't in Junon during his house arrest and likely in Midgar, then where was he right before the president's death? Likely released by then and relegated to Junon. Also, the time between his appearence in the courtroom and his first appearence in FFVII must've been when he dyed his hair orange. .. why do I keep talking about this subject anyway?

And don't mock his hair too much, mind currently looks like that due to a terribly bad hair cut and it's going to take forever to grow out - cries)

Spoiler

Actually, I have the same haircut myself. I actually like it quite a bit, I just make fun of it because I find it slightly out of character. And don't feel bad: I went nearly bald (some people can pull this off; I can't) a few months ago and kept it covered it up with a hat and it is only until now that it has grown to a decent looking length.

Spoiler: pics

I never finished watching all of BC on youtube, but seeing as I've a bit more free time than usual (semester's over) I'll probably get around to it soon enough. Based on what I've seen and heard it seems a lot more promising than one would think for a cellphone game.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Thank you!

Spoiler

I'm sure your hair looks fine. Mine is just not a good cut regardless of the style and I really don't like having short bangs, but that's just me

Ooh I like the gifs.

Also if you have ample amounts of spare time you could always read fanfics that touch on BC. I feel like seeing works through the lens of fic's written about them is a good thing.

And I still want to compile a list of BC fics since you can't select BC as a category on FF.N.

I'd also like to do an edit of a play through where we edit out the fights and you can just watch the story, maybe with people reading the dialogue so it's sort of like watching a movie.

 

[Morello]

I've been away for so long with on-going health issues, but I've been stopping by to read often - fascinating discussions here, and thanks to all the posters of pictures too.

Cam, have you thought about making a BC community and/or forum on fanfiction.net? I don't know how active those places are any more, but we could all add fics there. I'd be happy to make a community there if you like.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

That's a wonderful idea. I've never really used the communities or forums, butt it sounds like the perfect solution. Please do make the community, I'd really appreciate that, thank you.

 

[Morello]

Okay - it's made. http://http://www.fanfiction.net/community/Before-Crisis/107604/

I'm following a policy of PM-ing people to ask permission before adding stories. Cam - I hope you don't mind that I added two of yours already. I've also asked you if you want to be staff, which means you can add stories.

If anyone has or knows of any good BC stories on Fanfiction.net, please let me know so I can try to add them. Licorice, please may I add DIPOTP?

It would be good if we could have a similar collection here - or at least links to stories, but I'm not sure where would be the right place to put it?

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Oh it's fine. Honestly I feel like being added to community will only get author's more readers, so most people will probably agree. I've had a few of mine put in various places over the years. Didn't get a notice on the staff invite though...hmm

 

[CameoAmalthea]

So this conversation happened on Tumblr http://i.imgur.com/zkoaOQz.png (warning not entirely safe for work)

 

[Rydeen]

I'm almost done with Before Crisis already, and to be honest I'm pretty impressed with it and its portrayal of The Turks so far. There is quite a lot I'd missed/was mistaken of in terms of the Turks/Shinra by not bothering much with the fandom for a few years. Back in '07 there were no gameplay vids, just the script translation off gunshotromance, which I couldn't get into. Can't wait to watch Tseng's special episode. I'll keep an eye on your community.

So this conversation happened on Tumblr http://i.imgur.com/zkoaOQz.png (warning not entirely safe for work)

This made my day.
That barrel really does annoy me, though.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I agree the gun looks a bit ridiculous - but in its defense, it's completely true to the gun designs for Before Crisis and Crisis Core, which are all way bigger than they should be... Final Fantasy is famous for its oversized swords, so I guess that what's good for swords is good for guns, too. If you look at the promotional poster for BC you can see this:

Spoiler: Promo Poster

Also have a look at Tseng's gun from Crisis Core. Now you see it:





Now you don't:



It looks like he stowed it in the waistband of his trousers!

As for Cissnei's shuriken - where does she put that thing when she's not using it?

So it's really a choice between being realistic, or remaining true to the canon visual realisation of their world.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Good points. Magical invisible holsters that hold sort of work like bags of holding and just hold every size weapon? JK LOL

As a cosplayer, I should understand the whole "how do they carry that weapon" thing, weapons are bulky. Maybe the shuriken is somehow collapsable.

Anyway, I found this website that has production sketches from Last Order with names listed for some of the BC Turks and a height chart. Does anyone know if this is canon?

http://squareenixmembers.webs.com/Last_Order_Art.htm

 

[Morello]

@Licorice

Spoiler: Promo Poster

They have to have big weapons - look at the size of their HANDS! Perhaps there's a "conceal weapon" materia?

I always used to think the rods were pretty pathetic weapons (minus materia and electricity!), but they'd be easy to conceal and lethal at close range. It was interesting that Rude had a rod in Advent Children - maybe they're standard issue to all Turks, like police batons, and then they specialise in other things as well?

@Cam
That's interesting! I like Emma for Gun - it's a nice no-nonsense sort of name and it suits her. (I'm biased of course, having an Emma myself!) Given that it seems as though they didn't decide to go with names in BC in the end, and as far as I know these names are never used in Last Order, I'm going to feel free to keep on making up names for the BC Turks. They made that point in Crisis Core about Cissnei not being her real name, and I like seeing what different writers decide to call them.

I hope that height chart is canon - that's really useful. Does that top line say 190cm, which would be just over 6 foot 2? I always thought there would be more of a height difference between Reno and Rude. I like Tseng being so tall.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Anyway, I found this website that has production sketches from Last Order with names listed for some of the BC Turks and a height chart. Does anyone know if this is canon?

http://squareenixmembers.webs.com/Last_Order_Art.htm

I remember investigating this a couple of years ago. As near as I could find, the production sketches are authentic, but that only means they're Madhouse's production sketches and not necessarily indicative of anything from Square.

Especially given that Square later wrote Last Order off as "a work outside the Compilation" (i.e. not canon), I'd hesitate to extrapolate anything official from these sketches. Even the height chart may not be reliable, though I see no problem using it as a reference for fanfiction and the like.

All this being said, Square does name Rod (Male) "Crisis" in the Reminiscence of FFVII Compilation video from Advent Children Complete, which is quite interesting in light of these production sketches. Of course, given that he is always "Rod (Male)" in everything else, "Crisis" probably isn't his real name.