The Good and The Bad of Final Fantasy XII

[Fangu]

As much as I like Fran, she's the weakest party member overall. I once ranked all the characters on all their stats, and I don't think she was in the top two for any single stat.

That's what I've read too, and it doesn't make any sense to me. Fran has the most years of weapons and mechanics training, so it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't be best at something. Did you check for evade and defense as well? Nvm I'm pretty sure you did. Meh.

By the way, the character's stats are random/ depending on certain factors when you get them in the game, but maybe that's only for HP and MP? If it's for other factors as well, maybe it's just a random thing where most people get unlucky with her stats. But I'm guessing not.

Maybe Fran was actually made for the purpose you're using her for, and nothign more

 

[Lex]

The stats work like other FF games with levels - i.e. there's a "best possible" and "worst possible" increase to each stat at each level up.

The only factor that determines stat is level, and the thing that determines level when a character joins is Vaan. Balthier and Fran join at Vaan's level at that point +1, and Basch, Ashe and Penelo join at Vaan's level +2. Their stats at the point they become a party member are determined by their joining level and the usual RNG bullshit attached to level

 

[Jarlix]

Fran just completely rocks it in IZJS. She's an amazingly competent mage of any type. She's a competent Breaker and Uhlan too.

 

[Fangu]

Spoiler: Rant on Fran's VA (and Fangu trashing localization (as usual) in general)

I just want to say that watching some of the cutscenes in the original audio (I like doing that with games, as I always used to watch the subbed originals when I watched anime back in the days.) And I have to say I'm a little disappointed in what they chose to do with Fran's voice. I like the American VA, don't get me wrong, she does a good job with it. But it's just how they focused on making her exotic instead of old and wise. Fran doesn't speak if she doesn't have something of importance to say, also her humour is a little quirky and dry, and she has a very subtle body language which makes more sense in a lot of the original scenes with a more mature voice. All of which speaks of a person of certain experience and age (which she is). I think they should have given her a voice more like Jote. Not with the stressed accents, but something darker. Even her relationship with Balthier makes a hell of a lot more sense to me when hearing her ye old wise one voice. To put it this way, I would never have suspected anything remotely romantic going on there if they'd given her a proper grown up voice, but with the younger sounding one, you start reading into stuff. And to me their relationship makes a lot more sense when it's purely professional. It also makes it a story I find much more enjoyable, and it just makes more sense to me that way. Because of how little she actually says, with the English VA as it is now, it makes it sound like she's a strange animal who says weird stuff or rants about how bad the mist is. Don't get me wrong I still love Fran, but I'm just dissapointed after watching some of the original audio.

Just watch 07:49 and out

(Also why the feck did they mess up the part where Balthier mocks Vaan for doing an awful job with getting info out of Jote in the English version. It sounds like he credits him in that one. Also, the proper translation for Balthier at around 14:42 is not "ugh, Vaan" but "what the actual fuck" or "oh for fucks sake" or similar, his lips are reading that, you just don't hear him say it. It's a Japanese animation thing I guess.)

Whyyyy SE America, why do you make choices that affects the story like that. I guess it's because they thought it sounded strange with hearing an 'older' English voice on her, or they just fell in love with the strangey-ness of the VA they ended up with.

 

[Jarlix]

Didn't read the bulk of that yet and am just about to, plus I am quite excited to finally hear some of the original FF voice acting. But I have to say I love her dub voice a lot. Thanks to FFXII and Secret of Kells I sort of associate magically apt inhuman forest girls with foreign and strange sounding English dialects. Even when they meet the Children of the Forest in the ASOIAF/GoT novels I picture Leaf with that sort of voice.

She sounds pretty awesome either way.

edit: the translation made more sense. Fran and Balthier themselves weren't getting any information out of her, Vaan was the only one that did.

 

[Fangu]

Yeah I searched forever until I found those videos, it's the largest batch of them I've found so far. Strangely there isn't a jap audio/ eng dub playthrough on YT, a lot of the other VA games do.

edit: the translation made more sense. Fran and Balthier themselves weren't getting any information out of her, Vaan was the only one that did.

Well from what I can tell he didn't really, he just asks about Mjrn, learns she isn't there, and then Jote refuses to say anything more before Fran shows up. That is my impression of it anyway.

Edit: It might seem like Jote doesn't even reveal that much. Here's a translation from before the official English version was released:

Van: なあ　ミュリンって子がいるだろ？　呼んできてくれよ
Van: Hey, there is a girl named Myurin here right? Can you call her out for me?

Yote:早々に立ち去れ
ここは人間に許された地ではない
Yote: Leave here quickly! Hummes are not allowed to be here!

Van: ミュリンに会えたら　すぐ出てくよ
Van: As soon as we meet Myurin, we'll get out of here.

Yote: 会えるものか
Yote: Who are you to meet her?

Van: 会わせてくれるまで出て行かないからな
いいよ　勝手に捜すから
Van: I'm not leaving until I see her.
Fine... I'll find her myself.

Fran: 森の声が聞こえたの　この里にミュリンはいないわ
ヨーテ　あの子はどこ
Fran: I've heard the whispers of the forest. She is not in this village.
Yote, where is that girl?

Yote: なぜたずねる
あれの行方を告げる森の声ーー
ヴィエラなら聞き取れるはずだが
聞こえんのか
鈍ったものだ　人間と交わった報いだな
森を捨てたヴィエラは　もはやヴィエラではない
ーー森を去ったミュリンもな
Yote: Why do you ask?
The answer is being told be the forest as we speak
Any Vierra should be able to hear it.
Can't you hear anything?
Your senses have grown dull...　punishment for interacting with Hummes I'd say
A Vierra that has deserted the forest is no longer Vierra.
ーーThe same can be said about Myurin.

Balflear: だから見捨てようってのか
Balflear: So you've abandoned her then?

Yote: 里の総意だ
ヴィエラは森と共にあらねばならん
それが森の声であり　われらの掟だ
Yote: It's the consensus of the village.
Vierra must be at one with the forest.
That is the voice of the forest and our law as well.

Van: じゃあ　そっちは掟を守ってろよ
こっちが勝手に助けるんなら　文句ないだろ
Van: Well, just keep your laws then.
If we go to help her ourselves, you won't have any complaints right?

Yote: ミュリンは森を去って西へ向かいーー
鉄をまとう人間どもの穴蔵をさまよっている
それが森のささやきだ
Yote: Myurin left the forest and was headed westーー
She then wandered into a cellar of men dressed in iron.
That is what the forest has whispered.

Fran: ヴィエラが森の一部だとしても森はヴィエラのすべてではないわ
Fran: The Vierra are apart of the forest, but the forest isn't everything to the Vierra.


Yote: その言葉　５０年前も聞いたな
Yote: I recall hearing something like that 50 years ago...

Balflear: やるじゃないか
あんなのから情報を引き出すとはね
さて　人間の穴とか言ってたが
Balflear: Wow Van, you're soooo amazing.
A REAL master at getting information.
Anyway, she said a hole of humans or something yeah?

Larsa: バンクール地方のヘネ魔石鉱でしょう
オズモーネ平原の南ですね
あの一帯は　わが国の植民地なんです
ーー軍もいるでしょう
Larsa: It must be the Henne Mines in the Bangul area.
That is just south of the Ozmone plains and the area is a colony of the empire.
ーーI bet some of our army is there too.


Balflear: それがどうした？
行くぞ　ヴァン
Balflear: Yeah？ so what.
C'mon Van. Let's get going.

Van: あのさ
さっきほら　ヨーテが言ってたろ
その　５０年前がどうとかーーって
Van: Hey, I want to ask something.
Before Yote said something about what was said 50 years ago right?


Fran: それで？
Fran: Yeah？

Van: フランって何歳？
Van: Just how old are you Fran？

::Akward pause and Balflear mouthing "What the fuck Van"::

Larsa: 失礼ですよ
Larsa: That was pretty rude of you...

Penelo: ほんと子供なんだから
Penelo: You're such a damn kid... really...

Edit (again!): Okay, it might be that thing Vaan says,
"Van: Well, just keep your laws then. If we go to help her ourselves, you won't have any complaints right?" It's a pretty good argument. It was just strange how he crosses his arms after Balthier says what he says.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

FFXII isn't a bad game. However, Matsuno leaving and not finishing it himself killed it. It's cool to like FFXII, it's a swell time. But you want to see Matsuno for real? Play Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together for PSP. After something like that? It's hard, man. The biggest tragedy is what FFXII could have been. Even a Matsuno old school classic like Vagrant Story shows us Matsuno's full effort.

 

[Fangu]

oh lol

Spoiler

 

[Strangelove]

BROOOOONNNNIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!1

 

[ForceStealer]

I never at any point in FF12 suspected that Fran and Balthier were anything but the best of friends (and professional partners).

 

[Sprites]

OMG! LOOK AT THAT! I WANT ONE!!!

Ahem....

OK in terms of FFXII for me...I never finished it myself, I think the story is great, honestly I do(Watched all cutscenes and stuff) but I found the constant need to grind, the Gambit system and all the stuff in between a pain in the arse which lead to me never finishing it, having said that I now like a good grind and after seeing all the chat about it again I may be inclined to hook up my PS2 and begin a new game and see if my mind is changed.

Can I just say I absolutely love Revenant Wings though and I highly recommend people play it. It was a bit similar to X-2 in that the story had more of a light hearted feel (the big bad is gone after all) but Vaan does get to live up to his main character status and it wraps up the XII story nicely without feeling too much like a sequel to the original. It's so much fun to play in terms of battles and it plays out a bit more like the Tactics series but that's what makes it so much fun, I seriously love it.

 

[Fangu]

Oh jesus I just realized the map is totally interactive

Like, you can choose the different parts of a map with the directional buttons (to see what the different parts are named, like "Ozmone Plain / The Shred", and to move to the next part of the map, you mark the blue arrow and press X

And if you go into the world map in the main menu, you can see all the maps from there

... I feel so incredibly dumb right now X)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I never at any point in FF12 suspected that Fran and Balthier were anything but the best of friends (and professional partners).

I always assumed they were fucking after he mentioned that she doesn't like being tied up.

 

[Fangu]

I always assumed they were fucking after he mentioned that she doesn't like being tied up.

That was the first hint for me, the second was the way they spoke to each other right before entering Eryut. They sounded like an established couple, or at least two people who knows each other more than just as friends. After seeing that and remembering that Fran holds his gun on one of the official artwork, that one of the best weapons for her is the gun, and the fact that she kisses the gun in her victory pose etc made me think there might be something to it. That being said she also kisses the crossbow, but I hadn't equipped her with the crossbow yet so I didn't know that.

SE is basically throwing hints in all sorts of directions. You can read into all the scenes that follows Eryut in all kinds of ways. It's kind of LTD really. But I've settled for a version now and they're not sending me down the shipping road again, lol.

 

[Jarlix]

The game just loves going under the radar with the romantic relationships.

I was out of town for a few days and emulated more IZJS on the way. I'm convinced that the game won't allow me to play what I consider to be the 'canonical' Fran, even if she rocks that game like Freddie Mercury would.

My idea of Fran is-

Mystic Armor
Green Magic (It's partially merged with White now.)
Dark Magic
Arcane Magic
Bows
Spears

This is how I played her in FFXII.

IZJS isolates bows and spears unfortunately. shame

They should have just made a mode in both versions where you can be linearly shackled to my idea of her 'cause my interpretation feels pretty spot on to me.

Oh jesus I just realized the map is totally interactive

Like, you can choose the different parts of a map with the directional buttons (to see what the different parts are named, like "Ozmone Plain / The Shred", and to move to the next part of the map, you mark the blue arrow and press X

And if you go into the world map in the main menu, you can see all the maps from there

... I feel so incredibly dumb right now X)

didn't know that

...

damn.

offtopic: I don't like minimaps in a lot of games. I think it's the same issue Kojima pointed out with the radar in his games before MGS3, it becomes a sort of radar game wherein you just look at the top right instead of being drawn into the world and figuring stuff out for yourself.

 

[ForceStealer]

Smeh, I guess. I just the like the concept of two opposite gendered very close friends without being a romance plot, because it never freakin happens. And Balthier and Fran seemed to fit that bill so well.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Balthier cosplay

 

[ForceStealer]

Aw man that is sweet. I'd wear that to a wedding or something (or my wedding)

 

[Jarlix]

Dream FF game. Laguna clone as hero and Balthier clone as support y/n.

 

[Fangu]

didn't know that

...

damn.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Why do they never mention it?? It's new from X or any of the other games dammit!

Smeh, I guess. I just the like the concept of two opposite gendered very close friends without being a romance plot, because it never freakin happens. And Balthier and Fran seemed to fit that bill so well.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. But that also goes for 'established couples' in games, two people who are in an established relationship without kids. Usually if two people have been together for some time, they're a family, or they're struggling to have kids. You rarely see couples that have that subtle attraction and mutual respect and trust, because I guess it isn't driving their story anywhere and therefore uninteresting. (Zoe and Wash in Firefly and that couple from that 70's 'Heart to Heart' detective series is all that comes to mind.)

From the picture in my avatar (which is official art), and how in Revenant Wings

Spoiler

Fran says Balthiers ways of wooing her was different than Tomaj

I've drawn the conclusion that friends, yes, but Balthier would still probably do that if he could (he is trying to squeeze her boob after all) but he's settled with the fact that Fran is more like the hot friend of your mothers it would be a bad idea to sleep with. Anyway I think those two things I just mentioned are there more to characterize Balthier as a young man and a ladies man rather than to say anything about the relationship between Balthier and Fran.

Dream FF game. Laguna clone as hero and Balthier clone as support y/n.

Sorry I got stuck staring at Basch's chest X)

 

[Drax]

I played through the game once when it came out. It was one of the first FFs I completed.

Am I the only one that thinks Vayne Solidor is secretly Michael Bolton?

And Phon Coast is my favorite grinding spot because of the music.

 

[Farron]

Unpopular opinion time. I dont like this game. BUT I don't think that it's terrible. Just that's not my cup of tea per say.

I hated the storyline and most of the characters minus Bashce, Princess Ashe and Larsa. The rest felt unnecessary and very unpopular opinion time I didn't like Balthier all that much, he felt rather vain and narcissistic.

Though the change of battle system and dungeons felt refreshing and the world was rather large and had tons of adventure to explore. I just felt letdown by most of the characters and storyline.

I don't hate it, just that it didn't feel all that exciting and the characters needed more depth. Princess Ashe, Balthier and Larsa had depth, but the rest felt lacking.

I sort of enjoy a Final Fantasy that feels like it has tons of focus on the characters and FF XII was more imo about the gameplay.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I didn't like Balthier all that much, he felt rather vain and narcissistic.

"Felt"? That's what I love about him, though -- he carries on as though he believes he's an actor in a play.

 

[Lex]

Sorry I got stuck staring at Basch's chest X)

Yes, Basch's chest. Don't we all <3

 

[ForceStealer]

How come Basch never gets shit for being covered in useless belts, anyway?