The Love Triangle Debate: Another Turn in the Cycle

[Splintered]

So if Aerith and Cloud are lovers because kobito, and Tifa is the lover (of Cloud) because koibito, then I can only assume,

Cloud's a damn whore.

Also I am not imagining facebook Final Fantasy VII. Cloud puts his relationship with Aerith and Tifa as "it's complicated."

He also puts his interests, gender, and bio as "it's complicated" though.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Also wanted to say I don't any remember German arguments. Well at least I didn't, don't think I knew about it. If I knew about it I forgot

Thanks for the info/link about geliebt Tres

Spoiler

Actually I've been playing Tales of Symphonia recently, and there's a scene in there that kind of reminds me of the Cloud/Aerith scene, which is basically two characters taking a break, spending some time together, shedding some insights, basically the one character being supportive/reassuring of the male lead, basically showing him letting him know that people care and that he doesn't have to shoulder the burden all by himself, basically he had some heavy stuff on his mind, stuff had been going down, and the party were taking a break/some downtime while other stuff was happening. The premise set up for this is want to go for a walk/see the snow together. This talk in the snow scene is known in the community as the "romantic" event for the game, and at first I didn't know it was just a talk, and I'd been hyping myself up all game for it, then when I got it, at first I was kind of disappointed, because I'd expected something explicit like a kiss or something, then later I thought hey this was kind of like the stop in the park scene, two characters together, growing closer, kind of like Cloud/Aerith, then I felt better

Also remember when Cloud says "Well ... not a real one" couldn't he be/maybe he is referring to the pseudo date earlier in the park, and the GS one would be a proper or w/e one/them making it official like?

Another thing is where there is a Dismantled quote where Aerith says she thinks she'll make it two dates, maybe this is because the one in the date has already happened, Idk

Either way, in any cases I think it's a special scene, it's used at the Distant World contests whilst Aerith's scene is playing (the screen they show with events of the game playing in the background)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

anyway my point is that, given that i have been in all of the situations thus far used to describe cloud and aerith's interactions in ffvii and no relationship resulted, it seems a bit premature to describe them as actually being in a relationship.

Neither Que nor I were suggesting that, though. This is why I say "lover" is a poor choice for translating "koibito" when "beloved" is pretty much exactly the same word in English.

Typically used when there is an established relationship? Check. Isn't always used when there is? Check. At its core means "this person loves this person"? Check.

It is literally the same word. Why it doesn't get used more often, I don't know.

that's why 恋人 sounds weird to me. maybe there isn't a better word for 'two people who have feelings for each other' ...

I can't really think of one, even in English.

Yes. All limited narrators are unreliable.

Yes, but delusional? Mentally ill? Were it DisC1loud were we discussing, sure, but we're talking about a character who is otherwise to be trusted and assumed to Know What She's Talking About, especially after she's in the Lifestream.

We have to assume she is using the correct word. How she is using the word is what is in question.

Some unlimited narrators are as well. The question is to degree. While under most situations we have no reason to doubt Aerith's word, we do know that what she says doesn't jive with what we actually see of her and Cloud's interactions if she means it in the 'We were a couple' sense.

She wouldn't mean that, though, again, because she isn't delusional and she is a reliable source.

And I know you don't favor the symbol reading, but it is a valid one, and doesn't require us to treat Aerith as unreliable or reject the evidence of the events of the game.

Neither does what Que or I were saying. =P

The "symbol" thing is really bad, though. It's in the same vein as a reading that Tifa is "like an ally in battle" or that "ally in battle" is a personality trait rather than an actualized role in her life.

Yes, those flawed arguments stem from assuming the wrong meaning of a different word or just plainly incorrect grammatical syntax, but it arrives at a similar logical disconnect for me where I'm left wondering how the hell Tifa is supposed to be "like an ally in battle" and how Cloud is supposed to be just the symbol of Aerith's koibito when he is inarguably her friend rather than just a symbol of her friend.

So, for me, that possibility immediately gets ruled out too, leaving us with Aerith meaning only one of two things: a) the person she loved or b) someone she loved who also had feels for her.

Since we know, as discussed at length, that the first meaning is pretty uncommon to begin with and would just be plain weird to be used by the person doing the one-sided loving, that really only leaves the second option, which ties pretty closely to the common usage of the word.

Besides, Aerith probably would know if he felt something thanks to her special snowflake power.

There's maybe a two day Window where Cloud COULD have realized she was interested in him, after the date, but it doesn't seem to have happened, though he probably twigged it when she asked Cait Sith...

I figure he probably caught on at that point too. The boy is slow, but is he that slow? I really hope not.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

The scene in the park also sort of reminds me of a sometimes we'll look back on these times and laugh kind of thing, say for the sake of hypotheory/a hypothetical couple, later going on a journey in life, they encounter places they'd be before, this is where we, don't you remember, for Aerith I guess I could see her saying hey Cloud remember when you asked me if it was serious with my previous boyfriend, "Yeah ... I was kind of jelly", oh haha, that kind of thing (though of course this is conjecture, they probably wouldn't say it quite like that/or anything on account of previous boyfriend being Zack, and Zack being Zack, and out of respect for him, their special memories of him, assuming they knew what had happened to him in that case) or I guess one of them saying this, oh I remember, this, heheh, we were alone here, taking a break, we spent some time getting to know each other, hey guess this was kind of like a first date or something, yeah, but do you remember when I actually took you out to, and so on.

Also if I remember right the Cloud/Aerith scene was sort of based on the Aerith/Zack park scene and if that's called a date/I guess I don't know why Cloud/Aerith one wouldn't be, it's ok if one is/one isn't, unless people don't consider those Aerith/Zack events a date either, Idk

Oh and wait, this is kind of confusing, but FFVII did come first, so maybe the developers already thought the Cloud/Aerith park stop was kind of special, and when they were thinking of Cloud/Aerith/Zack/Aerith parallels, they said oh wait remember when Cloud/Aerith were together in the park?, or something I guess maybe they were looking at Cloud/Aerith scenes, to try and decide what was going/what to do with the parallel relationships idea they had going on or something.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I assume that's the case too. Honestly, they probably overdid the Cloud-Zack parallels in Crisis Core, because I was rolling my goddamn eyes.

 

[BlankBeat]

I recently had a friend who was seeing a guy -- they went on dates, hung out all the time, and all of this happened very fast. At that point, they hadn't officially had the "boyfriend/girlfriend" conversation, but everyone viewed them as lovers. They acted like lovers, and their feelings for each other were obvious.

There's always that weird stage: are we or aren't we? IMO, Cloud and Aerith were at that weird stage. Lovers, but not FaceBook official, so to speak. But becoming FB official was where their relationship was headed if it hadn't been for Sephiroth. Which was SE's point -- let's develop a love story very quickly, and then take it away just as quickly as it began. It was crushing blow to a lot of gamers who were rooting for Cloud and Aerith. And that was SE's point.

Anyway --

Ryu, here is my response to all of the Cloud x Aerith stuff. My response to the Tactics stuff is typed up, but I'm doing some research on a few things, so it's not 100% finished.

Aerith is a protagonist. The FTOIL page is for confessions of love to or by protagonists Aerith, a protagonist, confesses her love- after a fashion- on her date. So does Tifa, and even so does Yuffie. Cloud and Tifa, meanwhile, display their love for each other underneath the stars. So, yes, it IS evidence of a protagonist's love. Aerith's. Just Aerith's. Cloud and Tifa's entry is, meanwhile, about the both of them.

This is what the FTIOL page says:

Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop. Occasionally they become separated, but the two’s value to one another gives them the great strength to overcome whatever crisis may come.

It says, “...the two’s value to one another...” Um. That means the FTOIL page is talking about mutual romantic feelings. Why would Cloud and Aerith be the only exception to the stated purpose of the FTOIL page?

Fact is -- the FTOIL page says that though the protagonists may become separated, "...the two's value to one another..." will always be there. Therefore, Cloud and Aerith have romantic value to one another. Aerith develops love during the course of the Gold Saucer date. And so does Cloud.

The FTOIL page is specifically about mutual love, not one-sided love. But of course you would deny the FTOIL page is about *MUTUAL* love because you also deny that the “koibito” quote is about *MUTUAL* love (despite it now being confirmed in French that it says “lover”; *NOT* "beloved")

Because there are two ways that Koibito can be used, and Cloud and Aerith were never actually a couple, so if she means it in that sense, she is wrong. If she means it in the sense that Cloud is her beloved, then she is correct, without her and Cloud ever having had to do things which they did not do.

You are acting as if all of these pieces of evidence are isolated, when in reality they are connected and paint a very clear picture.

SE calls Cloud Aerith’s “koibito” not just because Aerith had romantic feelings for Cloud, but because Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith, too:
-Cloud admits his romantic feelings for Aerith to Marlene (and Marlene says she won’t tell Tifa)
-SE says Cloud *wavers* between two heroines
-Cloud goes on two dates with Aerith

Why *WOULDN'T* Cloud and Aerith be *MUTUAL* koibito’s given all of that information? It’s not that hard to connect the dots.


Point is -- we don’t assume it was a one-sided friendship, so why would we assume it was a one-sided romance (especially given all of the evidence I listed above)?

While we're on the subject of Koibito, though, would you insist that Tifa must also be in a two-sided romance when she is called a Koibito?

No.

No. Not at all. It means he considers her attractive. Egads, man, there are states between 'Not interested' and 'MY BELOVED!'

You actually believe SE thinks Cloud wavered to Aerith solely because he found her attractive?

How can Cloud waver to Aerith based solely on physical attraction if they developed a "special bond" that went *BEYOND* physical attraction? Are you going to ignore the "special bond" Cloud and Aerith created that is part of Cloud’s wavering to Aerith?

Oh, and I guess according to you, Cloud only wavered to Tifa because he found her hot, too. I guess that pretty much nukes Cloti as well.

And I'm not saying it's about Cloud being a horny idiot either. What I am saying in my admittedly crude idiom is that Cloud being interested in multiple women is normal, and even in the world of a narrative, isn't special evidence in and of itself that he is madly in love with one.

I agree. It *IS* normal for Cloud to be attracted to multiple women at his age.

But Cloud develops a "special bond" with Aerith. He also says he hopes Aerith likes him. Therefore, Cloud would like for there to be a mutual romantic attraction between himself and Aerith that isn’t just based on psychical attraction, but is based on their special bond.

For a date to be romantic, the party involved must A: Agree with you that dates are inherently romantic (Since Play dates are a thing, this is not wholly true) and B: realize that what they are on is a date. Cloud doesn't seem to realize ANY of the five possible dates he can go on are such. Even when Yuffie kisses him.

Cloud might not know any of the other dates are dates, but he knows Aerith’s date is a date because that was the agreement for being her bodyguard. You know, when SE decided to incorporate the classic trope of the hero protecting his love interest, they also made it be for the price of a romantic date. But I guess we weren’t supposed to read romance into that entire sequence of events? LOL.

How reliable Cait Sith is IS RELEVANT to what meaning his prediction has and its use in the narrative.

What was SE’s intent for including Cait Sith's prediction? To build up CxA’s love so that when Aerith died, it would be that much more painful.

Because Cait Sith predicted a wedding. And gag me, but Spirit Sex has made a comeback.

LOL @ your “spirit sex” jab, yet Dyne is shown reuniting with his wife, Eleanor, in the lifestream. I guess spirit sex isn’t that far from reality afterall.

The only way? "She had no chance for any of this good shit to happen because she died suddenly, and what's worse, the man who she was predicted to marry was more interested in another woman anyways." That doesn't make it more painful?

How can a wedding prediction become more painful after Aerith’s death if there was never a possibility for them to get married in the first place? The death wouldn’t make a wedding prediction more painful if a wedding was never possible to begin with.

In other words, Aerith's death would be irrelevant if a marriage was never possible while she was alive. But because a marriage would have been possible if Aerith had lived, her death made the wedding prediction “more painful”. How is that not obvious?

You go from impressive eyes and appreciating a smile to "physically attractive" and yet you say that 'blushing is not much of a sign of a romance,' Oh pull the other one. Look, I'm not saying you're automatically wrong, but holy crap man do you make so many goddamn assumptions that you treat as fact, and you get all hot and bothered when other people make informed conjecture.

A death can only make a wedding prediction more painful if a wedding was possible before they died.

Okay, I'll say it again, and please try and remember it this time. Tifa's complicated feelings in FF7 are not jealousy. They are complicated because her best friend, the person whom she thinks of very fondly, is causing the man she loves to self destruct over his guilt to protect her and other people important to him. She likes Aerith, but hates that Aerith's memory is causing Cloud to essentially destroy himself with guilt. BECAUSE NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THE LTD.

Why does Tifa let her “peevish feelings slip” in the Shinra jail cell? Because she is jealous towards Cloud and Aerith’s “special bond” that is “developing” right before her very eyes.

If you recall, Aerith mentions hers and Cloud's promised date while in the Shinra jail cell. Then, Tifa flips out. Clearly, this “special bond” Tifa is witnessing between Cloud and Aerith is romantic because Tifa get’s jealous when she overhears Aerith mentioning hers and Cloud’s promised date. This, too, should be obvious.

I want the quote because you have a less than stellar track record for accurately representing them.

I saw it a long time ago, but haven't been able to locate the full quote.

I know it was the same passage from the FFVII Ultimania Omega that discusses Aerith's "rare" smile.

MARKETING! No, seriously, don't trust Marketing. Marketing and the story are at best strange bedfellows.

By SE marketing CxA as a couple, they are endorsing the idea of them being a couple. How is that not obvious?

Wait, wait, wait... You're saying that these characters are similar because the woman described as Beautiful and so is Aerith? I'm just going to have to laugh at you because yes Aerith's beautfiul. So are Tifa, Rosa, Adult Rydia, Sarah, Maria, Sarah (Not repeating myself here), Rinoa, Quistis, Selphie, Edea, Julia, Dagger, Beatrix, and practically every other good female character to date. Your entire "they totally have stuff in common" is based on an insult and a physical trait every goddamn female character shares. Meanwhile, the reason I say they have nothing in common is because VII really isn't much like Cloud personality wise at all, and the flower girl isn't even a character. She's a put-down joke delivery vehicle. I'm not even sure she's a persistent NPC.

SE uses the specific word of “beautiful” in Aerith’s profile, and then Knight VII calls the Flower Girl “beautiful” in FFIX. Are the other FF girls specifically called “beautiful” in their profiles? And are the other FF girls called “beautiful” in another game by their romantic interest?

Honestly, though, there’s no use in arguing about the “beautiful” remark because the fact that this beautiful woman is called “Flower Girl” means she is Aerith from FFVII.

You first said the two people in FFIX had nothing in common with Cloud and Aerith from FFVII. Uh, well, except for the fact that Aerith is stated to be beautiful in both games *AND* she is called Flower Girl in both games. How much more obvious can you get?

Oh, and you conveniently ignored that the Flower Girl calls Knight VII, “not exactly Mr. Personality” which is an obvious reference to Cloud. Oh, and Knight VII is in reference to FFVII, so it’s only using common sense to assume Knight VII is the hero of FFVII (Cloud Strife). But if that wasn’t clear enough, Aerith says he isn’t, “exactly Mr. Personality” (something you ignored in your rebuttal)

To recap:
The woman is Aerith: she is stated to be “beautiful” and is called Flower Girl
The man is Cloud: he is Knight VII (emphasis on VII) and isn’t exactly Mr. Personality

SE shows both of them romantically in FFIX. How is that *NOT* a romantic homage to Cloud and Aerith?

Man, that paragraph is full of so many assumptions and so much question begging. It's also hilarious because you kinda forget that Aerith gets attacked and rescued several times by several people, including Zack, AVALANCHE, the Turks themselves, and yeah, Cloud.

So more than just Cloud rescues Aerith at one point or another. Your point? Aerith states she loves Cloud more than Zack.

Furthermore, Cloud and Aerith are members of a love triangle, so when the man of this love triangle is shown protecting a woman in this love triangle, it is a common trope of a hero protecting his love interest.

Hint hint -- a promised date was also included during this common trope of a hero protecting his love interest.

And yes, heros rescuing potential love interests is a common trope. But it's not the only one, and Aerith is far from the only potential love interest Cloud saves. The climax of the game results in Cloud saving Tifa, twice, and it happens again in FF7AC.

OK?

No, I did not miss your point in the slightest, but you have apparently missed mine. Because my point is that yes, the hero IS shown to protect his love interest. But so too is the hero shown to protect people other than their love interest (Sorry, random New Yorker, Spiderman can't save you, he doesn't want to date you), in addition to the fact that the hero typically saves their love interest.

When did I say Spiderman can’t save you if he doesn’t want to date you? And when did I say Cloud can’t save you if he doesn’t want to date you?

My point is that Cloud and Aerith are in a love triangle – they are love interests (not just two random people). In addition, Spiderman and MJ are also love interests (not just two random people). So when we see Spiderman saving MJ (his love interest), it is a way to show Spiderman’s interest in MJ. Same goes for when Cloud protects Aerith (his love interest) – it is a way to show Cloud Strife’s interest in Aerith.

 

[Dashell]

I recently had a friend who was seeing a guy -- they went on dates, hung out all the time, and all of this happened very fast. At that point, they hadn't officially had the "boyfriend/girlfriend" conversation, but everyone viewed them as lovers. They acted like lovers, and their feelings for each other were obvious.

There's always that weird stage: are we or aren't we? IMO, Cloud and Aerith were at that weird stage. Lovers, but not FaceBook official, so to speak. But becoming FB official was where their relationship was headed if it hadn't been for Sephiroth. Which was SE's point -- let's develop a love story very quickly, and then take it away just as quickly as it began. It was crushing blow to a lot of gamers who were rooting for Cloud and Aerith. And that was SE's point.

And going off of this, what DO you call yourself at that stage? Where you haven't had that actually "ZOMG UR MY LUVER!" conversation?...

I mean when you're at the point where it's all but confirmed, may as well be lovers

 

[BlankBeat]

Bottom line is...

Japanese “koibito” was inconclusive. Could mean lover (mutual) or beloved (one-sided).

German “geliebter” was inconclusive. Could mean lover (mutual) or beloved (one-sided).

French “amant”, however, is conclusive. It means lovER (mutual).

It doesn't matter if you don't think Cloud and Aerith had enough time to become lovers. Because they did. Clerith is canon. Well, Clerith was already canon after the FTOIL page and the wavers quote, and the Marlene evidence, but this is just another confirmation.

---------------------

Okay but how do they acknowledge something like that? I mean do they HAVE to kiss or say I love you? They flirted with one another, they went on two dates, other people saw it and took notice... for me that's enough. Just because they didn't SAY "i love you" or "you're my lover" to one another, doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

Cloud "wavers" between two heroines —->

Cloud thinks Aerith’s eyes are "impressive" —->

Cloud thinks Aerith’s smile is a "good purchase" —->

Cloud leaves his initial meeting with Aerith with a “mysterious feeling” —->

[As you said, this is a fictional video game. SE was obviously going for the "love at first sight" trope with all the evidence I just listed]

SE says there seems to be "something" between Cloud and Aerith
—->

Cloud agrees to be Aerith’s bodyguard for the price of one date —->

SE decides to make Cloud have a flashback about romantic relationships in Aerith’s house —->

Cloud and Aerith share an intimate date in the Sector 5 —->

Cloud tells Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him —->

Tifa gets jealous when she hears Cloud and Aerith flirting and “developing their own world together” in the Shinra jail cell —->

Cloud says he will always be there for Aerith in Cosmo Canyon —->

Cloud and Aerith share a date at Golden Saucer —->

SE intentionally includes a “wedding” prediction about Cloud and Aerith’s affinity that becomes "more painful" after Aerith’s death —->

SE says that Cloud and Aerith are lovers.

Seems reasonable to me! Especially because, according to the FTOIL page, we know Cloud was developing love for Aerith during the Gold Saucer date.

Furthermore, the deepening of CxA's relationship is shown in Cosmo Canyon, something numerous Cloti's have consistently downplayed and dismissed.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Really? A French translation that you have no reason to believe had involvement from the Japanese guy who wrote the novella is conclusive of anything other than that there is a French translation?

Really?

Keep in mind that I am the same person who was just telling Ryu that I think the use of "koibito" was mutual, so it's not like you and I have a different conclusion about the whole thing. It's just you have some fucking wacky reasoning sometimes.

 

[Strangelove]

the french word means more than the japanese word it was translating

omg this is priceless

 

[BlankBeat]

Really? A French translation that you have no reason to believe had involvement from the Japanese guy who wrote the novella is conclusive of anything other than that there is a French translation?

"French translation rights *ARRANGED WITH* SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. ..."

 

[Octo]

It doesn't matter if you don't think Cloud and Aerith had enough time to become lovers. Because they did. Clerith is canon. Well, Clerith was already canon after the FTOIL page and the wavers quote, and the Marlene evidence, but this is just another confirmation.

OK great. Can we go now?

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Amant leads directly to 愛人 for what it's worth -

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/amant?showCookiePolicy=true

Also I thought this was interesting -

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Geliebter

(Noun)

1. lover (male partner in a sexual or romantic relation)

Geliebter f

(Noun)

genitive singular of Geliebte‎

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beloved

(Noun)

a person who is dearly loved, such as a wife or husband

Well guess I'm in this Japanese/French/German/English thing now

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

"French translation rights *ARRANGED WITH* SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. ..."

"Rights" -- arranged through a third party at that (Tuttle-Mori). Yes, thank you for proving my point about your wacky reasoning.

Do you see anything about Nojima being consulted? He isn't even a Square employee, dude, and is separated from them with a "/" in the copyright above for a reason.

 

[Strangelove]

of course you're going to see square enix's name, you can't just translate and put a book on the market without obtaining the rights for it. that's how lawsuits start

 

[Octo]

O

of course you're going to see square enix's name, you can't just translate and put a book on the market without obtaining the rights - if you could I'd be a millionaire now

fixed

 

[Strangelove]

i wish

but i don't know french so nothing i do will matter

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

OK great. Can we go now?

No.

Spoiler

We're not leaving until everybody accepts everybody loves each other and this happens

 

[Danseru-kun]

I don't believe that the French, German or English translations should be taken as fact but anyway to add to the discussion I asked a German online buddy about Geliebter:

Alright, Geliebter means basically “Beloved person” or just “Beloved” like a name. The thing is just, there are different meanings. Many people over here use it when they refer to someone they just sleep with. An affair or someone they just date. Other people, like my mom for example, use the word for her husband too. So it always depends a little bit.

Overall it refers to a person you are intimate romantically or/and physically with.

If I am to translate koibito into Filipino there are some options such as giliw, mahal, irog, sinta, and nobya. The first four are one-sided but the last means "girlfriend/boyfriend." There's no word for lover (in a sense that "one who loves me"). So if Tifa's Reunion Files are translated in my language there is no doubt she's the object of affection, but for Aerith unless nobya is used it's always one-sided.

 

[BlankBeat]

Why was my previous post edited by you, Tres?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I was trying to edit my post where I had said "the Japanese guy who wrote the game" to "the Japanese guy who wrote the novella" and wasn't paying close attention because I was doing a couple other things at the same time. I ended up editing your post where you had quoted me instead. Sorry about that.

 

[Dashell]

I was trying to edit my post where I had said "the Japanese guy who wrote the game" to "the Japanese guy who wrote the novella" and wasn't paying close attention because I was doing a couple other things at the same time. I ended up editing your post where you had quoted me instead. Sorry about that.

We cant take you anywhere


And Blankbeat, I'm willing to accept the world is mutual, I've never had a problem with that, but I could have sworn you were one of the ones saying that the German translation isn't the official English one, so it didn't matter. ... or was that not you?

 

[BlankBeat]

And Blankbeat, I'm willing to accept the world is mutual, I've never had a problem with that, but I could have sworn you were one of the ones saying that the German translation isn't the official English one, so it didn't matter. ... or was that not you?

Wasn't me

I didn't even know there was a German one XD

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Japanese, German and French so far. I expect us to get it in English right after the Swahili translation.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I was wondering Danseru, if your German friend had anything to say about this? -

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Geliebter

(Noun)

1. lover (male partner in a sexual or romantic relation)
Geliebter f

(Noun)

genitive singular of Geliebte‎

I was wondering because before I found this link with search, somebody else had wrote/said they knew someone who knew German and they said "geliebter" is the term for a male lover in a romantic and, or sexual relationship straight out direct, the primary definition, the sort of relationship that it was used for, that it could translated in different ways, but that was it's primary definition.



Also just for fun -

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/lover?showCookiePolicy=true

I ran Collins for "Lover" for the English one, this time it is a direct to amant French, but also ... 愛人

Beloved is 最愛の?

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/beloved?showCookiePolicy=true

Hito/Tres would know better/more though.

Well apparently "geliebt" is beloved in German but geliebter is the male/definite, possessive version for beloved/lover, apparently Liebhaber is the female version, Idk

Liebhaber m, Geliebte f ⇒ the lovers das Liebespaar ⇒ we were lovers for two years wir waren zwei Jahre lang zusammen

It seems to be a sort of male/female segregation or something o-o

So, for me, that possibility immediately gets ruled out too, leaving us with Aerith meaning only one of two things: a) the person she loved or b) someone she loved who also had feels for her.

Since we know, as discussed at length, that the first meaning is pretty uncommon to begin with and would just be plain weird to be used by the person doing the one-sided loving, that really only leaves the second option, which ties pretty closely to the common usage of the word.

Besides, Aerith probably would know if he felt something thanks to her special snowflake power.

Also QGFT ...

QFT

I dunno, I agree, it would be weird if Aerith were referring to Cloud as/saying that's my one sided love/beloved/lover.

*spins* *dizzy*