The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

That probably is a relevant factor in some players' games, though the actions you take on field maps have bigger results unless you're using Tidus for healing a lot in battle.

True enough.

 

[Splintered]

I don't know anything about this mechanic but regardless: Team Lulu

 

[Tennyo]

I don't know, man. I like Lulu with Wakka. I always thought that if Tidus/Yuna wasn't the canon main couple he would have been cute with Rikku.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I always figured Rikku/myself was canon, but, yeah, agreed with Tenny, I guess. He does at least have a confirmed interest in both Rikku and Yuna.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Nah, I like Lulu/Wakka, Tidus/Yuna, and me/Rikku.

 

[Tennyo]

I always figured Rikku/myself was canon, but, yeah, agreed with Tenny, I guess. He does at least have a confirmed interest in both Rikku and Yuna.

Confirmed?

In the Ultimania?

I never read the FFX Ultimania.

SO GAIZ HOW 'BOUT THAT FFVII LOVE TRIANGLE, HUH?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

SO GAIZ HOW 'BOUT THAT FFVII LOVE TRIANGLE, HUH?

IT HAS BEEN DEALT WITH.

Sorry, had to respond in character. Couldn't resist.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

One thing I've never seen people do is try and prove that Tifa and Aerith love Cloud, with it always being blown off as obvious, which is admittedly true, but the same could be said of Cloud's feelings for Tifa(seriously, I recognized it from the original game alone, and I'm known for being absent-minded and oblivious). So now I'm going to state some of the more obvious pieces of evidence.
Evidence Tifa loves Cloud:
In the original game, during the Tifa date, her "I ... ..." line is clearly her saying "I love you"
Her online profile says she has "strong feelings" for Cloud. It should be bvious what these "strong feelings" are.
In Case of Tifa, she feels the need to ask Cloud if he loves her, something you generally only ask people you love.
This letter from Crisis Core:
"Sephiroth—I don't get him at all.
Is everyone in SOLDIER like him? Oh, and
are there any blond guys in SOLDIER? Well,
it's just a dream... Any girl would love to have a
blond SOLDIER guy protect her when she's in a pinch.
Well, it's no good just waiting for my
blond knight in shining armor to show up,
so I've started learning how to fight, myself.
My teacher tells me I've got a knack for it."
It's obvious this blond guy she's referring to is Cloud, and then there's also the fact that not long after that, she sends you a mail saying not to tell anyone in SOLDIER she asked about the blond guy.
Evidence that Aerith loves Cloud:
She constantly mentions her and Cloud's planed date, and she also asks Cait Sith how compatible she and Cloud are. That's enough evidence for me. She also seems to have the delusion that she and Cloud were in a romantic relationship, especially with the fact that she calls him her koibito in CotLW.

People need to stop being lazy about this.

 

[Zealkin]

Evidence that Aerith loves Cloud:
She constantly mentions her and Cloud's planed date, and she also asks Cait Sith how compatible she and Cloud are. That's enough evidence for me. She also seems to have the delusion that she and Cloud were in a romantic relationship, especially with the fact that she calls him her koibito in CotLW.

People need to stop being lazy about this.

:/
I don't think Aerith was deluded into thinking that they were in a relationship.. she did care about and love Cloud deeply however, that doesn't make her delusional. She may have considered Cloud her love even though he didn't reciprocate/know it, but those feelings don't make her crazy...

In fact a lot of people in real life do that :/

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

:/
I don't think Aerith was deluded into thinking that they were in a relationship.. she did care about and love Cloud deeply however, that doesn't make her delusional. She may have considered Cloud her love even though he didn't reciprocate/know it, but those feelings don't make her crazy...

In fact a lot of people in real life do that :/

Well I know delusional is probably a little too strong of a word, but I couldn't think of a better word to use.

 

[Danseru-kun]

"Koibito" is not necessarily "lover" as what translators here have argued, "beloved" is the more appropriate translation because of the context.

So in COLW, Aerith can say "Cloud is her beloved" rather than "Cloud is my lover." I like the former translation because I think it's more appropriate since there is no evidence that the two of them had an actual romantic relationship.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

"Koibito" is not necessarily "lover" as what translators here have argued, "beloved" is the more appropriate translation because of the context.

So in COLW, Aerith can say "Cloud is her beloved" rather than "Cloud is my lover." I like the former translation because I think it's more appropriate since there is no evidence that the two of them had an actual romantic relationship.

People in Japan have actually never heard of this "one-sided koibito" thing. Whenever the word koibito is used, it's always assumed to be two-sided. So in CotLW, this either means Cloud and Aerith were in a relationship, or Aerith had the mistaken belief that they were. My money's on the latter.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

Where did you read that Japan never heard of the one sided koibito? The dictionaries define koibito as either "lover" or "sweetheart."

Still, even if Cloud loved and continues to love Aerith, it doesn't really affect the evidences that he loves Tifa. I hate it when people tear down every aspect of Cloud and Tifa's relationship to prove that Cloud loves Aerith.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

^

Where did you read that Japan never heard of the one sided koibito? The dictionaries define koibito as either "lover" or "sweetheart."

IIRC, Claudia Wolf, who, if I'm not mistaken, lives in Japan, said on a thread a long time ago that people in Japan have never heard of this whole "one-sided koibito" nonsense.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

If that is so I have no problem with it, but I think this issue has been discussed pages ago and I can't really say much about the matter. I hope someone comes and explains this thing. I'll ask my sensei tomorrow and my two Japanese classmates if they're online in FB.

Also, I really have no problem with Clerith evidences at all, I'm very open to the notion that mutual romantic love existed between them. If it's confirmed then it's okay to me.

But I think that the Clerith side benefits more from the "no canon" stand than "both are canon" since if both pairings are canon, Tifa's undeniably with Cloud. Many of them don't want that so they advocate "no canon," by using Clerith evidences, which is clearly not the way to prove that no pair is canon.

 

[Tennyo]

Who is Claudia Wolf?

Also, whether or not Cloud and Aerith had a mutual interest in each other is kind of a mute point since she's dead. It doesn't change the fact that Cloud still had feelings for Tifa, and it most certainly doesn't mean that Cloud is going to remain celibate for the rest of his life pining after a girl he only knew for two weeks.

And it most definitely does not mean that Cloud is hooking up with Aerith's ghost in the flower fields. She's dead, let her gooooooooo...

 

[Unlucky]

I think Claudia Wolf is hito...?

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

I think Claudia Wolf is hito...?

Yep

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Who is Claudia Wolf?

Also, whether or not Cloud and Aerith had a mutual interest in each other is kind of a mute point since she's dead. It doesn't change the fact that Cloud still had feelings for Tifa, and it most certainly doesn't mean that Cloud is going to remain celibate for the rest of his life pining after a girl he only knew for two weeks.

And it most definitely does not mean that Cloud is hooking up with Aerith's ghost in the flower fields. She's dead, let her gooooooooo...

Did I say anything about Cloud hooking up with Aerith's ghost in flower fields? No, that's ridiculous. Also, it's moot, not mute.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hitobito lives in the UK.

Koibito CAN be one sided, but this depends more on how it's used. When spoken by someone about the object of their affection, it can mean 'person I love and hope loves me back' or 'My significant other,' and it's the context, more than anything, that tells us this. Aerith seems more hopeful than delusional in Lifestream White, so we go with the wistful interpretation.

Also, the 'one sided Koibito nonsense' was IIRC, about Koibito meaning 'someone who loves', instead of indicating that the bito du koi was themselves loved by another.

 

[Vendel]

One thing I've never seen people do is try and prove that Tifa and Aerith love Cloud,

You don't say?

Trivia 1

It’s tough being the popular guy?

Despite his cold behavior in several scenes, Cloud is essentially popular with members of the opposite sex. In addition to FFVII’s heroines Tifa and Aerith both having feelings for him, AVALANCHE’s Jessie and young Priscilla in Junon both also fall for Cloud soon after they meet him. Even though it’s the pitiable aspects of Cloud that stand out, perhaps weaknesses such as those also win over a woman’s heart.

[FFVII] Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.

And done.

Next?

 

[Tennyo]

I think Claudia Wolf is hito...?

Oh, right. I forgot he changed his username to that.

 

[Vendel]

Also, I really have no problem with Clerith evidences at all, I'm very open to the notion that mutual romantic love existed between them. If it's confirmed then it's okay to me.

The notion of it is one thing. But the people who argue for it seem to take it as fact and go from there. Which is why I always push back against that notion.

But I think that the Clerith side benefits more from the "no canon" stand than "both are canon" since if both pairings are canon, Tifa's undeniably with Cloud. Many of them don't want that so they advocate "no canon," by using Clerith evidences, which is clearly not the way to prove that no pair is canon.

Ah yes "no pairing is canon". The last refuge of the Clerith shipper who has long since given up saying C/A is the "true and intended pairing".

They may sell that line to the newer people. But with the old timers this is a massive shift in stance. And they never admit it either. Isn't that very honest of them?

 

[Danseru-kun]

IIRC, Claudia Wolf, who, if I'm not mistaken, lives in Japan, said on a thread a long time ago that people in Japan have never heard of this whole "one-sided koibito" nonsense.

Something juicy this is, I asked my sensei about the koibito word and she said that it's two sided in the best sense. If it's one-sided, the word "suki" is more appropriate. It's more than "lover" she said because koibito is deep, it's more of a "two-sided love that is for a lifetime."

So yeah, if we take what my sensei said, it's either Aerith is delusional or is really saying the truth and I don't think the former is correct considering her character. Still if koibito two sided, we must still consider that the story is from Aerith's perspective. And if koibito is indeed what my sensei said, that Tifa is undeniably a koibito to and no one in the FFVII verse except Cloud. LOL Johnny and Rude has a crush on Tifa but it's nowhere close to what koibito means.

So yeah, I kinda changed my perspective after hearing it from my sensei but I wanna hear your thoughts about this before I share it to other people AKA Tumblr. Again, I'm very open to the idea of Cloud loving Aerith romantically and this koibito word thingy just made me think that it's more plausible that I had thought.

BTW if your curious my sensei's name is

Spoiler

Roelia Alvarez.

Google her she's a real person.

 

[Vendel]

Koibito, the gift that keeps on giving.


As for Aerith being delusional? Well IMO that fits her better than oh let's say Tifa. I mean this is the woman who projected for quite some time her feelings for her dead boyfriend on to Cloud.

So who are we to say she still doesn't do this after death? That is until she meets Zack's essence again. Because I don't see much of this "two-sided love that is for a lifetime" in AC. Well not between Cloud and Aerith.