The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Danseru-kun]

Why are you guys treating clerith bashing like it's a bad thing?
There's nothing wrong with mocking the idiocy of those who think a pairing that isn't canon is canon.

Now Matthew that is seriously offensive :/

not just to Cleriths but every shipping community.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, Matt, none of that, please. Am serious.


Also, Splintered: Well put.

 

[Vendel]

There's nothing wrong with mocking the idiocy of those who think a pairing that isn't canon is canon.

Well if it's good enough for J.K. Rowling.

 

[Danseru-kun]

The tumblr blogger issued an apology which I think that can be appropriately posted here:

I have to say that I’m sorry to the TLS Forums. Or the Lifestream Forums. I was a huge naive dick and I didn’t understand how things go there or work or how the jokes their flow.
I was… so wrong and this blog is meant to be fair towards Clerith and Cloti shippers, and I just insulted a whole ton of Cloti shippers and neutrals and their works on essays and research.
I am….. a huge dick.
I love Cloti and Cloud and Tifa being together just as much the idea of Cloud being with Aerith [ Or Tifa being with Aerith teee-hee! ] <3
I totally&#8230; misunderstood the forum. And no I haven&#8217;t been *brainwashed * fuck. If you think that, fuck. Okay ? No. Stahp.
I was reading through your forums like a Mission Impossible Tom Cruise spy and totally notice something that you guys are not&#8230; these&#8230; *evil satanic evvall Cloti biased shippers&#8230; * You just believe that Cloti is canon. And you believe that you have enough evidence to back it up. c:
I totally say sorry [ hand on hart <3] to everybody that I was total dick too, recently with the stupid essay posts about this forum recently&#8230;
fuck. I had one job and i SCreW it up.
But in all serious. I. am. 100 per cent. sorry. to you guys. <3
Merry Christmas to everybody at the Lifestream Forums. <3
PS. AerTi is canon.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Tumblr blogger, I can't forgive you.

YOU DIDN'T SAY CLACK IS CANON. THIS MEANS WAR!





Seriously though, if you're reading this, know that while I didn't appreciate being quoted and having my words used out of context, I don't think badly of you. I saw your blog and you also have Clack stuff there so you're in my good blue graces. I thank you for your apology as a member of TLS. I hope you join us here sometime, we do bite but not that hard.

Any poster of Clack is a friend of mine. I'll protect you from the mean Clotis and Cleriths. PEOPLE OF THE BLUE SIDE LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER!

Merry Clackmas, TLS, LTD, tumblr blogger.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That was very big of them. Apology accepted.

 

[Morana]

It is good to know that there are still people who can apologize when they are wrong.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Haha I thought of a new topic but this is mostly meta

Say, Cloud has always been in love with Tifa, why didn't he treat her as someone more special in Disc 1 than Aerith? Or not? Did his false persona affect this? Or did Cloud regained his love when he regained himself? What do you think of this. Is Cloud's love for Tifa linear or was just regained back?

 

[skyrise]

Haha I thought of a new topic but this is mostly meta

Say, Cloud has always been in love with Tifa, why didn't he treat her as someone more special in Disc 1 than Aerith? Or not? Did his false persona affect this? Or did Cloud regained his love when he regained himself? What do you think of this. Is Cloud's love for Tifa linear or was just regained back?

It's an established fact that Cloud always had feelings for Tifa, hell he joined SOLDIER so he could someday come back and tell her 'see, now i got soul AND I'm a soldier'. (if you don't get the reference, you should be ashamed btw.)
Zack's memories and traits he inherited messed up his mind, a reason that added up on why Aeris was attracted to him and vice-versa, but after the Lifestream event and his childhood memories that were basically a love letter to Tifa got awoken, I guess you could say certain feelings of him came to the surface. /in b4 Cloud can be worse than Squall and raise the being-oblivious-towards-other's-people-feelings bar a lot more.

 

[Splintered]

I was reminded of a quote from an interview sometime ago, I was wondering if someone has the details on it. It was when the relationship between Tifa and Cloud was described as "dim," I remember hearing it but I don't remember where

 

[skyrise]

I was reminded of a quote from an interview sometime ago, I was wondering if someone has the details on it. It was when the relationship between Tifa and Cloud was described as "dim," I remember hearing it but I don't remember where

As "dim" as can be a couple that gets it on on the mountain I suppose.
Now I'm curious myself, who might have said that and why.

 

[Danseru-kun]

I was reminded of a quote from an interview sometime ago, I was wondering if someone has the details on it. It was when the relationship between Tifa and Cloud was described as "dim," I remember hearing it but I don't remember where

As far as I know the translation "dim" should actually be "secret/discreet."

 

[Dashell]

As far as I know the translation "dim" should actually be "secret/discreet."

NOOOOOOOOO! IS THIS STILL GOING ON? It is NOT secret. People keep saying that it is but that's not true at all. It's "slight"

The correct translation is "For whom he had slight/some feelings." I don't have the exact Japanese text but trust me, this is right. I've even talked to allexperts.com about this and Japanese people... go ahead and ask your Japanese friend. It's "slight" trust me.

 

[Splintered]

Interesting, which interview is that from?

 

[Danseru-kun]

NOOOOOOOOO! IS THIS STILL GOING ON? It is NOT secret. People keep saying that it is but that's not true at all. It's "slight"

The correct translation is "For whom he had slight/some feelings." I don't have the exact Japanese text but trust me, this is right. I've even talked to allexperts.com about this and Japanese people... go ahead and ask your Japanese friend. It's "slight" trust me.

Can I get the whole quote? I don't know it much I only read stuff in the forums so sorry I don't know the whole story about this.

 

[Ryushikaze]

NOOOOOOOOO! IS THIS STILL GOING ON? It is NOT secret. People keep saying that it is but that's not true at all. It's "slight"

The correct translation is "For whom he had slight/some feelings." I don't have the exact Japanese text but trust me, this is right. I've even talked to allexperts.com about this and Japanese people... go ahead and ask your Japanese friend. It's "slight" trust me.

For further clarification, yes, it's 'Slight' but the same kanji also means 'hard to see' or 'obscured'

 

[Danseru-kun]

Just gimme the whole context of the text, whatever it is, the kanji and I can consult it too.

 

[Dashell]

&#12511;&#12483;&#12489;&#12460;&#12523;&#12395;&#20986;&#12390;&#12367;&#12427;&#21069;&#12395;&#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;&#12399;&#12289;&#12411;&#12398;&#12363;&#12395;&#24819;&#12356;&#12434;&#23492;&#12379;&#12390;&#12356;&#12383;&#26449;&#12398;&#23569;&#22899;&#12486;&#12451;&#12501;&#12449;&#12395;&#12300;&#12477;&#12523;&#12472;&#12515;&#12540;&#12395;&#12394;&#12427;&#12301;&#12392;&#23459;&#35328;&#12375;

Here let's try this... don't give your friend any context at all, just ask her what it means... I bet she says "some" or "Slight" feelings.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Wait I'm gonna change the names again, I'll make it Patrick and Donna.

 

[Vendel]

Haha I thought of a new topic but this is mostly meta

Say, Cloud has always been in love with Tifa, why didn't he treat her as someone more special in Disc 1 than Aerith? Or not? Did his false persona affect this? Or did Cloud regained his love when he regained himself? What do you think of this. Is Cloud's love for Tifa linear or was just regained back?

Well ignoring the whole "more special" business, because that is a whole bunch of opinion. But what is not opinion is that Cloud is seriously messed up on disc 1. Anyone who tells you otherwise has an agenda. Most likely a clerith one.

The man was not even capable of seeing both Aerith and Tifa had feelings for him. It took the LS sequence for Cloud to become aware of Tifa's feelings. And Cloud was finally able to express his to her.





Also "dim" feelings sounds idiotic.

 

[Dashell]

Also "dim" feelings sounds idiotic.

It came from a translator who doesn't speak English as her first language. It's a bit Engrishy but it's not wrong.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Here's Risa's translation:

Before Patric came to Midgar, he declared to a girl living in the village ,Donna, who he fancied faintly, that he would be a soldier&#8230;
like this~&#65340;(^o^)&#65295;

Now asking her is faint means weak or secretly.

Edit:

Me: Arigatou! Does "faint" mean "secret" or "weak?"


Risa: I think both is included




Now discuss. What do you think of this?

 

[skyrise]

Yeah, because let us ignore everything the game and all the after-stuff has established concerning Cloud/Tifa and why don't we focus "to be dim or not to be?"

Basically, Cloud does love (as if it isn't obvious enough) Tifa, but does not know how to approach her at times; it was pointed out in the exact words, to the people that are denying that, in the novela On the Way to a Smile, covered by the Marlene parallel.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I think peeps just mean his feelings as a young 'un

I buy Cloti but I don't buy into the whole they were bbf forever/knew each other inside out/were special childhood sweetheart ideals, same as I don't have all the same beliefs about Cloud/Aerith as some Cleriths do. The fact is Cloud and Tifa didn't really know each other all that well as children, Tifa even admits as much herself in the Lifestream. A faint/dim/w-e crush on someone you don't really know makes sense I think. It was as adults Cloud and Tifa started to know each other properly. Now I know some people might say but that means he doesn't really know Tifa at all! since he didn't know her on disc one! but I don't believe that, I think the real Cloud was in there and aware at some level, just as I think the real Cloud had emotions concerning Aerith I think the real Cloud knew Tifa was there, I think there's even a quote during Sephiroth's illusion somewhere where Cloud acknowledges he knew Tifa had been there for him and that was before the lifestream events so. So yeah I think at some level Cloud was aware of Tifa and what she had done for him like looking after him when she found him at the train station and kind of got to know her some as she was going about her business at the Seventh Heaven/Avalanche I think it was the same for Tifa as well, she didn't really know this strange kid from next door, they weren't even sure they were going to meet that night at the well, Cloud didn't think Tifa was coming, they were both kinda surprised later it had happened, she was surprised and intrigued by the ambitions he revealed at the night at the well, they were better than the future others had told her about, at first it was this ideal, she had this whole hero business in her head. Then she grew up, became more mature, started to know Cloud for who he really was, finding out about truths and flaws ... but she still stayed Then they started to get to know each other more in depth with the lifestream and Highwind events

Thanks again for the translations Danseru, Que and Ryu

Spoiler

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Me: Arigatou! Does "faint" mean "secret" or "weak?"

Risa: I think both is included

By "both are included," does she mean that she thinks both apply at the same time or that either could apply and she is uncertain which of the two it is?

For further clarification, yes, it's 'Slight' but the same kanji also means 'hard to see' or 'obscured'

And I still insist that the "hard to see" implication is what applies to the context at hand. We're otherwise shown that Cloud's feelings for Tifa were an enormous matter to him during that time, and Cloud himself referred to those feelings as a secret wish no one else could know about.

Hell, "secretly" even fits the context of the Ultimania passage the "slightly fell in love with" line comes from better, being that the rest of it deals with powerful emotions, such as Cloud's vow to protect Tifa and his shame at returning to his hometown without fulfilling his vow to become a SOLDIER.